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LO
Democracy in Iraq is supposed to be what Iraqis choose to destroy or to build up, either, it's US diktat

LO

You could refer to the perspective of the South invaded by Yankees, for instance.

If you give me a paper and a pencil, and memory sketch, sure I will draw a France centered map of the world, but unlike many american students who will just draw a coast to coast map, mine will be quite correct depicting the whole world.
We know that center of Europe has moved to Germany, and, by the way, our way of life is somehow closer to NY's one than to Varsaw's. We actualy have the same gay marriage debates as you.

Discovering ancient precepts of chinese strategic books ? 
"Never totally surround your ennemies, they will figth like tigers,
let them an escape door, they will disband"
"If you have a total win, give back an inch of your gains,
you will get PEACE only if your ennemy can claim for a victory"

LO

To my eyes, each attack against civilians is terrorism,
when Israeli soldiers in occupied territories are blasted by an human bomb, this is self defense.
Do you deny to one people the right to rule his homeland his own and to revolt against foreign military pressure ?

The most shocking photos were not to be released up to avoid endangering the troopers... that's supposed to be worse than any ethic minded US citizen can expect, weaken war effort support  and feed Iraqis' rage

(Should I want to keep occupation for long, this is exactly what I would say...)
If Iraqis see you as an occupier, they will not be free, either.
Logic trap. That may lead to enlisement.

Aye aye Dr. Strangelove !
Do you advertise on your possible release of total barbarity ?
Remember the name of the last german chancellor to support "Total War" ?

Please, don't generalise this way, liberal muslim Arabs too are targets for terrorists.
Much less than one Arab out of 10000 may become a terrorist.
By the way, latest Arab Summit condemned all terrorists acts, quite late, but did.
In the jordanian streets, peoples don't say any better about USA than in Syria, mainly hostile words.

LO
BGD, Trebuchet talked about irritation, not hate, this is understandable, if USA was to wait till Europeans stop tchating in all the languages they have, before an agreement, USA might wait for years...  while USA can speed up ...taking the wrong track 

LO
The whole waste of the Iraq affair, because of the stupid blindness of Bush's administration, its feeling of absolute military power and its greed for oil, is that they didn't understood that the pro Western party in Iraq was the Baath. The Baathists wanted to build a modern country against

Saddam was a monster indeed, but the regime was an ennemy of Bin Laden, there were free haired young women studying in Iraqi universities, they sure were not madrassases.
Thank to US military pressure, the regime had softened, it had comply with WMD disarmament, that's nobody can still deny.
It was possible to lead to more soft a regime by threat without loosing one american and that many thousands Iraqi lifes. That way was supported by rest of the world outside coalition.

Done, you're a bit late, Bush has already called it a win...

The ballot boxes should have been brought one year ago, but numerically would lead to an "islamic republic".
"We go to Iraq, topple Saddam, install a democratic regime, cheered by so grateful Iraqis"
That's exactly what Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld sold out to US opinion !

Aren't they US valets ? Who named them ? Who gives them the money ?

Iraqi wedding parties are not worth without shooting at US troops, it's their sense of entertainment :;):
this is well known the world over

LO

Who are you at war against by now ?
Shiites wanting the end of occupation ? Sunnis wanting the end of occupation ? Iraqis wanting the end of occupation ?
It's 90% of them. They hate you, that's all. 10 % can be turned, so what ?
What about your pretention to free Iraq ? When I read you, CC, I cannot believe a one second that you want any good to Iraqis ! You are just occupying a country against its will.
Did they allow you to change their flag ?
When I see that Kimmitt claiming no wedding party was bombed by mistake, I have not any trust in any so called US goodwill at Iraq, only goodwill against Iraq, dig it ?

LO

We're too weak, we can wipe USA out of the maps only ONCE    while you can kill all of us hundreds of times
We got to have some ammunitions left for some other threat, to protect our vitrified deads
By the way, to strike terrorists nests, we have a stockpile of small Neutrons bombs that wipe out any life in a range of 3 square miles whithout any material damage,  U interested ?  ???
We have Corsican cheeses too, but they aren't allowed by Geneva convention on Armaments, as inhumane weapons

LO

Got deepest doubts about who's a monster

LO

I saw a TV reportage on a Yemenite village council, imagine a hall with village leaders and a crowd of people chewing khat, smoking narguilees, tchating, and then they had to judge a man who had killed his neighbour after arguing and hand fighting.
The man told he didn't intend to kill, nevertheless the village old leaders sentenced him to death.
Then the victim's wife stood up, said that the murderer's death wouldn't give her back her husband, that she was left alone with three children and that she wasn't not strong enough to cultivate,
that the murderer had a wife and children that would be left without ressources, too.
Therefore she wished that the murderer should be sentenced to cultivate for her and her children half of each day of his life, cultivate for his own family the other half.
After a short discussion, the village jury agreed on the woman's request.
I don't know if this is yemenite or Sharia justice, what you think of it, but it seemed to me as quite a fair trial and a real good decision

LO

Doesn't work for Palestine,     

Brilliant strategies, Sir !
Your problem is :we, we, we, you think US, you don't think iraqi, as far as I can see, and you need to think iraqi to deal with Iraqis.
Killing hostile Iraqis will not bring you any support from average Iraqis because you kill Iraqis, they may be cousins, after all.
You're thinking war machine, and I tell you, my friend, that you lack thinking about men, your approach, I mean your lack of approach of Iraqi psychology is ground zero.
As long as you won't be abble to realise what does feel an occupied people.
Sorry to tell you this, Cobra Commander, no citizen fellow carnage can win hearts and minds

LO
You're right Cindy, I'm not judging USA nor the Arabs, frankly, I don't like Islam religion, and I have admiration for the Congress members which investigate on mistreatments.
French never did so when our army tortured Algerians.
As an honest chess player, I'm just trying to watch people's point of view, and you can't deny that Iraqis feel occupied by foreigners.
If USA had been invaded by Reds, wouldn't US citizens have resisted to occupation by any means ?
Wouldn't Red occupyers have said they were there to bring to US people ligths of socialism and free USA from horrible capitalists ?

LO

Absolutely wrong, 80% of Europeans dislike* Bush and Bush's America. Before Bush's election more than 65% had a pretty good opinion of USA. These 80% wish Bush out and though Kerry doesn't look very sexy, he's supported here just because hesn't Bush.
Kerry might get main Nato nations support to send troops in Irak.

If you leave, you loose, if you stay, you will stay as occupiers, not unlike Israeli army in occupied territories, when you pretended to bring to Iraqis freedom and welfare, you loose too

*dislike is an euphemism, not to say hate