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#3576 Re: Life on Mars » A "Must-Read" Article - desolate Earth locale/Marsian life » 2003-12-06 15:02:43
Read that article too. Amazing they didn't succeed to cultivate anything from their samples. Imagine, a sterile place in the open...
Would be a good place to do more ground-sampling, compare em with other *almost* sterile places, to see what life does with the top layers of the earth... Very subtle differences could poit to the absense or presence of life, that way.
#3577 Re: Science, Technology, and Astronomy » The Rocket Company - designing low-cost Reusable Launch Vehic » 2003-12-06 12:35:38
Just one gem from the latest installment:
"...military services often canceled a development program just before it was ready to go into production, because the program was over budget, over schedule, and projecting unit costs way above design goals. So they canceled the tank, the helicopter, the airplane, or the ship and started again from scratch, this time seeking a less capable, but ostensibly lower cost system. After many more years of design and development, the new system was ready for production. Inevitably, that system ended up costing more - with less functionality and lower performance - than the system which had been canceled. In the meantime, enough money had been spent on research and development for the new system to pay for a sizable deployment of the old one!"
Sounds familiar? Next-generation Shuttle follow-up debacle anyone?
#3578 Re: Science, Technology, and Astronomy » The Rocket Company - designing low-cost Reusable Launch Vehic » 2003-12-06 12:30:42
Anyone reading this? (a new chapter added weekly)
The Rocket Company
On the excellent Hobbyspace.com website...
Ok, it *is* fiction, but quite informative, with loads of *real* references about past and future successes and failures of the attempts to build cheap, reusable launchers. Written by guys 'in the knowing,' so sometimes quite thought-provoking... About money mis-spent, mastodont organisations slowing progress, conflicting strategies that get fused in one big dead-on-the-drawing-boards monstruosities...
And a possible solution... (Suspense! Excitement! Cliffhangers!)
#3579 Re: Life support systems » Question on the iron carbonyl process - Has the iron oxide issue been settled? » 2003-12-06 11:37:25
thank you for the complement. (Edit: COMPLIMENT!! Aaaaargh!)
It's just that i always start doubting translating chemical stuff... it's difficult enough in my native language (where you often find 'ancient' terminology, mixed with modern and english names, you get the picture)
Found some scribbled notes (heh)
Chelation: making (organic) complexes with metallic IONS (kations, cations?) but it's fairly 'agressive' so possible to 'rip' metal ions out of their oxide-state-bond (i guess, otherwise it'd be useless for what we (conservators) use it for... we actually 'bind' reactive 'rust' into chelates so it becomes harmless.)
regulating Ph changes the chelation process, so in theory you'd be able to chelate (=bind) the stuff, afterwards extract (rinse?) the 'metal-loaded' chelates, change pH again so they 'shed' their metallic ions... and recycle...
I'm really, really wildly speculating, extrapolating from the little i know about it... Might be totally wrong. And i used laymans terms because i don't know the translation otherwize 
I hope it's a little bit understandable!
Edit: googled it myself, looks like its primary use is in medical tratment (so it won't be cheap :;): )
But maybe this one is interesting: sequestration of *a lot* of metals:(sorry google cache, bad habit)
#3580 Re: Life support systems » Question on the iron carbonyl process - Has the iron oxide issue been settled? » 2003-12-06 10:03:54
*Can't find it...*
Best known Chelate is EDTA :ethyl(ene?) diamin(d?)e tetra acetic acid (or something liket that, again: this is last year's knowledge, ie: largely forgotten...esp. if i have to translate it to English...)
You have several 'lenghts' of these thingies, the all react to different metals, Cu, Fe, (those i am sure of...) by creating rings. The process is reversible, 'just' change pH in aquatic environment.
We use it to remove rust-stains etc out of paper. (conservation student)
It 'leaves the paper alone' ie quite specific itnteration but it's also used for 'titering' (???) 'titration' (???) errr... (concentration measurements-stuff in chemistry) Sorry for my lack of English tech words...
Downside: this is possibly forbiddingly expensive...
(Edited: the more i think about it, the more i'm getting convinced i'm talking total nonsense... I'm afraid i'm mixing things up...)
#3581 Re: Life support systems » Question on the iron carbonyl process - Has the iron oxide issue been settled? » 2003-12-06 09:46:59
only prepicitate Fe Mg Mn... I think it's possible when you use 'chelaat vormers' (that is dutch) i'll try to look it up to find the English term...
(Be back inna minute)
#3582 Re: Science, Technology, and Astronomy » Clickworkers - Do some science when you're bored! » 2003-12-06 02:12:39
erm. The site is up again
(For how long??????)
(edit 8-10 hours later: not for long. Ok, I've had it up to 'here'. Forget clickworking!) :angry:
#3583 Re: Not So Free Chat » Visionaries Hope NASA Charts Bold Course - ...Dr. Zubrin Quoted » 2003-12-05 11:37:39
Don't forget to vote on the Yahoo! article... The more people that read stuff like this the better IMHO
#3584 Re: Other space advocacy organizations » X-prize foundation - Best served with a light white wine » 2003-12-04 10:21:04
My favourite is Armadillo. Not that i think they'll definitely win, Burt Rutan lookks to be on the lead here, but the fact Armadillo put all their progress and setbacks online is so ...sweet.
Their design is also easily scalable to bigger stuff, while Rutan will have to build a completely new design if he wants to go 'bigger'
#3585 Re: Science, Technology, and Astronomy » Clickworkers - Do some science when you're bored! » 2003-12-04 10:15:32
The site is up again! 
(edited, barely one day later )
And down again 
(What's happening there?)
#3586 Re: Terraformation » Rapid Terraforming... - ...the most ambitious ideas? » 2003-11-30 07:44:06
Robert, about the 'no nitrates in Saharan desert... maybe subsurface..."
did you read this recent article?
vast nitrogen reserves hidden beneath desert
So, that *might* be very good news for Mars. This corrobates nicely with the scientist's remarks about desert environment breaking down nitrogen compounds on the surace...
#3587 Re: Human missions » Ultraviolet Light and the spacecraft windows » 2003-11-29 14:32:44
open some window shades and allow UV to flood the room for several hours.
Problem is, the light wouldn't reach every nook and cranny of the interior... Maybe use some mobile mirrors to reflect it?
*Me imagines an empty crew quarters with spinning discoballs inside, radiating germ-killing U.V.*
#3588 Re: Martian Politics and Economy » Crime and Punishment - Speculation » 2003-11-29 11:26:18
Something that popped up in my mind, just now:
(I'll explain it a bit Black-White, too tired to search after the right English terms, but i hope you'll get the picture...)
On earth, judges and doctors check if the murderer is sane, in most cases when he's 'crazy' and not 'capable' of understanding he did wrong, he's put in an asylum; Not executed.
Now on Mars... The biggest 'pro' arguments for capital punishment is "letting 'em live is too costly or too dangerous, sending 'em back also too costly or impractical"
But a 'lunatic' is at least as costly and dangerous...
What to do in such a case?
#3589 Re: Not So Free Chat » Community Chest Proposal - ...[in response to "Clickworkers"] » 2003-11-29 11:14:04
Is it possible to set up the (for now hypothetical) Mars Society chest so that gifts are tax-reductable(sp?)
(Not sure that's even possible in USA, but in Europe you can donate to NGO's etc nd get tax redux on that)
#3590 Re: Science, Technology, and Astronomy » Clickworkers - Do some science when you're bored! » 2003-11-29 08:25:40
Yes, but that's only the 'frontpage-introduction' cache, none of the links in the article work ('cause their server is down) so it's only "reading", not "clicking"....
Found a German-language article saying they were a bit cash-strapped, maybe i just witnessed their last signs of existence, let's hope not
#3591 Re: Science, Technology, and Astronomy » Clickworkers - Do some science when you're bored! » 2003-11-29 06:43:18
Still down... Hope it's not for long. I'll check the site regularly, and update this thread when it's active again.
(Message to thread: prepare to dive...)
#3592 Re: Youth Group / Educational Outreach » You can vote to put Mars on the cover of - National Geographic » 2003-11-29 03:16:30
Voting is going well...
The breakdown is now: Mars cover: 2425, others 449 and 1520
Note that the artwork is by Kees Veenenbos, so it's probably computer-rendered? (He has some great Mars scenery CGI artwork on his site....)
#3593 Re: Science, Technology, and Astronomy » Demron radiation shielding - Hoax or opportunity? » 2003-11-29 03:11:31
Very interesting material. Wide range of applications...
Suits, window/greenhouse emergency covers in case of solar storms, packaging (imagine a bunch of Demron flexible bags (like the ones now in use on ISS, in combination with your water-bladders) in the cargo-hold instead of a plate of lead, when emptied later on, these bags would still be useful, just stacke em wherever you want etc.
Heck, you gould line the sleeping bags with it, etc...
#3594 Re: Life support systems » Solar chimeys - Feasible? » 2003-11-29 02:57:55
Agree with that sentiment. We throw away too much usable stuff (and energy)
BTW: further in the novels, i recall the ressurected-cloned Duncan thinking the Fremen had lost it, because he saw wastedumps in their cities. Real Fremen recycled everything.
If only we Earthdwellers could be so wise....
Bill White: "Dune is supposedly patterned on Mars, right?"
IIRC Frank Herbert had, in each book a different 'thema' in mind: The first book about ecology, one about politics and so on...
#3595 Re: Unmanned probes » Flare Damages Odyssey - One instrument shut down » 2003-11-29 02:54:52
Odyssey has been a fantastic mission up until now. Hope it keeps functioning for a bit longer, though. It's a valuable asset for Mars exploration: as the article stated, it has still a critical mission to accomplish: data-relay for Beagle 2...
#3596 Re: Youth Group / Educational Outreach » You can vote to put Mars on the cover of - National Geographic » 2003-11-28 15:51:49
Vote to put a picture of Mars on the cover of National Geographic!
Spaceref Article
Well, it's *some* kind of educational outreach...
You can vote for 3 different covers, Mars cover has currently 2040 votes, others resp. 439 and 1502 votes...
#3597 Re: Unmanned probes » Flare Damages Odyssey - One instrument shut down » 2003-11-28 14:19:41
Solar flares causing havoc not only around Earth....
#3598 Re: Science, Technology, and Astronomy » $300M to destroy hubble » 2003-11-27 16:20:16
Hmmm my first link in previous post mentions "Orbital Recovery Ltd." in the article, and the second "Orbital Recovery Corporation..." Confusing...
#3599 Re: Science, Technology, and Astronomy » Clickworkers - Do some science when you're bored! » 2003-11-27 11:28:10
You're right... But i always double-check my links after posting to make sure, and i assure you it worked when i posted it... So it's probably temporarily.
(Another solar flare?)
'Bout the pictures: you don't choose them, 'they' send them over, but that's cool, you get a random pick, and sometimes theyr're really neat, and there's a link to show you where it originally came from, if you're really interested.
I had some pictures that really made my heart beat faster... Such magnificence.
(if you're REALLY aching to know more, here's the Google Cache )
#3600 Re: Science, Technology, and Astronomy » $300M to destroy hubble » 2003-11-27 10:33:11
...fitting a deorbit engine... Nasa... too risky...
Sigh, they really have become whiners, don't they?
Too bad it hasn't got a standard docking ring, like most sats...
otherwise this Dutch firm could've been the solution: A real Spacetug is being developed, at last.
(Edited: Great, looks like i'm not the only one thinking along these lines... Very nice article about Orbital Recovery Corporation, and if you do the maths, a lot cheaper, to boot. Spaceref Article Go, ORC! Save this pretty piece of hardware for posterity! )