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#326 Re: Human missions » Using Orion as a temporary LLO space station » 2006-09-23 21:28:08

Knowing that we have the 1.5 launch vehicles system design, how could we modify them to get this all in one launch to the moon. Would this be low enough in mass to launch it on the CaLV in a single launch?

I've long thought that the LSAM hab/accent module and and the Orion command module were too similar in function to develope a completely new craft. By eliminating the accent module and Orion SM, and replacing them with a just an Orion CM and slightly bulkier TLI stage capable of sustaining low lunar orbit for the required two weeks and propelling the Orion back to Earth before falling back to the Moon, I think we could reduce the 1.5 launch system down to just 1. Granted this puts a bigger load on the LSAM to slow both it, the Orion, and the TLI(largely empty).

#327 Re: Not So Free Chat » Has Multiculturalism Failed ? » 2006-09-23 20:34:05

I don't think we can just bomb and go home. We can see the problem with that in Lebanon, twice now the Isrealis have devistated the country and gone home, only for a non-conventional enemy to return stronger than ever. Granted part of the problem there is the root of the problem lies in Damacus and Tehran, out of Isreals reach. But the fact remains that if you don't deal with the cultural issues at the heart of the conflict, the conflict will resume at a later date. In WW2, both the Germans and the Japanese lost the will to build an enmpire based on their own racial sepremacy by having mass destruction on their nations and learning they were indeed not any better. Likewise, extremist Islam will only be defeated when they learn that by spreading the faith by the sword, they invite the same horror on their heads. You simply can't have multiculturalism enless all the cultures embrace it. Something we have been able to do thus far.

The issue is not the need to expand the power of any one nation, but to improve the local goverments. The US didn't have to conquer and hold territory in Europe to spread democracy, it required the Europe to be ruled by people who want the same things: peace, freedom, and prosparity for their own people first, and then those in other nations. Democracys the world over all work toward these things. The trouble is when those goals are abandoned, and you get goverments who just pander to the manipulated whims of the people, and you start down the road of socialism and communism, or the other way, when goverments take the role of babysitter, and you get theocracy.

#328 Re: Not So Free Chat » Froggy's » 2006-09-23 17:19:18

That pic of Chirac is priceless.  lol

He's right though, sanctions didn't work with Saddam, and they won't work here.

That anyone on the planet still thinks we can talk Iran out of building a nuke is really, really, pathetic.

The time for good options ended in 1979.

#329 Re: Interplanetary transportation » The GIANT mistake of the (too small) Orion's Service Module! » 2006-09-15 05:54:19

The CEV is primarily an Earth to LEO craft. Once it docks with the LSAM, its a towed craft. No more, no less.

#330 Re: Not So Free Chat » Bow Down Before Iran? » 2006-09-14 19:23:14

I thought it would be obvious how insulting such a statement is to ones allies. For a nation to not support a war that the United States does not agree should not make them enemies. Each nation has it’s own right to self determination within reason. It is not only France that decided to not support the war and it was the United States that took the attitude that it can take on the world. You know when the United States first took Baghdad in the second Iraq war there was some talk in Canada about helping with the reconstruction.  The United States said they didn’t want any help. They wanted to do things their way. Outside some successes in the Middle East George bush is a terrible diplomat.

That line was uttered well before Iraq, so applying it to the Axis of Weasels really doesn't make much sense.

Each side of the Atlantic has a very different idea of how to fight the War on Terror, but the Europeans are fighting it. Take Afganistan for example, the forgotten backwater that serves to distract terrorists from focusing on Pakistan and its nukes. But NATO forces are slaughtering Taliban Rebels wholesale.

On Iraq, I think continental Europe has a problem understanding that brutal dictators like Saddam are just as much a part of the problem as Osama. They view the spread of extremist Islam, and the despots, both secular and theocratic, under which it grows to be an annoying rash that can be treated with kind words and welfare checks, instead of the lethal canser that it is that needs to be confronted. I really don't think France was all that attached to Saddam, they just lack the means to contribute to the kind of military opperation required. With no glory to be had, they had no reason risk attaching themselves to what turned out to be a protracted battle over the hearts and minds of Iraqis between the West and the terrorists. In order to be relevent at all, which pride requires, they had to be contrary. Eastern Europe one the other hand had no delusions that they would suddenly be counted among the great powers of Europe, and did what they could on principle, and maybe a little because the French were annoyed at them in general. If Saddam had died, and his regime crumbled on its own, I have no doubt that France, Germany, or even Russia would contribute to a peacekeeping force to deal with the situation we're dealing with now. But after the diplomatic hissy fit they threw, they can't turn back without eating some major humble pie, something pride won't let them do.

Europe needs to puts its history in its past and readjust to the 21st century. This isn't the Cold War were even their best efforts would be little more than speed bumps to the Soviets without our help. They can play vital role against this enemy, if only they would cease being afraid of their own shadow. Utlimately, thats why they are not overly fond of our foriegn policy, its not handicapped by fear.

#331 Re: Not So Free Chat » Bow Down Before Iran? » 2006-09-12 19:21:41

I think most of the Bush hatred comes from the disputed 2000 election. Not only did he "steal" election, but he's doing so many important things.

Saddam, regardless of what he was actually doing on the ground with WMDs or Al-quida, not only had it coming, but just as much part of the Middle Easts problem as Al-quida. Its like the difference between Nazis and Commies. Their both dicatorships, and for all their rhetoric, the practical difference is nil. In fact both sides, Sunni and Shiite, kill each each other more than they kill Westerners. As for WMDs, you'll never get me to believe that Saddam had sworn off them.

Bush, for all his faults, as the one thing we need most in this conflict, patients. If our enemys knew that we had even 10% of that compared to our technological advantage, they surrender right now. Unfortunatly every Democrat is convincing our enemys that we have none.

#332 Re: Human missions » Next Shuttle Launch: Late 2006? » 2006-09-10 16:36:02

They might just be able to pull this off.

While I have serious questions on the worth of the ISS, I do think failure to complete it will be far more costly than success.

#333 Re: Not So Free Chat » Bow Down Before Iran? » 2006-09-10 15:25:07

We have been give our terms of surrendender in a recent tape from a Californian  who has joined Al-quida. They are convert or die.

The only answer that doesn't result in the complete destruction of Western Civilization, is one that aught to be familier to everyone in the West: No one forcably converts anyone. In a country were people have serious discussions as to whether the Christmas tree at the local shopping mall forces them to be Christian, this consept shouldn't be that hard. Yet somehow the pine tree with all the pretty lights is the bigger boogey man than the people who try to force conversions at knifepoint. Most likely because of the shortsighted view that if George Bush perfers the tree, then the forcefull conversions are for me.

#334 Re: Interplanetary transportation » Best Moon For A Manned Expecition To Uranus? » 2006-09-10 14:50:14

You know, I really hate the sound of that planet, it leads to many bad jokes.

What is the best moon for a manned trip to Uranus?
Answer: Why a full moon of course.  lol

You'll be glad to know that in the 2620 the name will be changed to get rid of that stupid joke once and for all.

The new name: Urectum.  wink

#335 Re: Space Policy » George HW Bush dream Verus our Bush Jnr's vision » 2006-09-08 13:26:24

Bush wasn't updating policy for votes, he was updating it for the future of NASA. Thats why he doesn't talk about it. That and the dramatic charges are going to happen after he leaves office anyway.

#336 Re: Unmanned probes » New Horizons - mission to Pluto and the Kupier belt » 2006-09-06 21:46:21

Why is Charon so... turquoise?

I still think it criminal that were sending something all the way to Pluto for the first time, only to fly right on by.

This only reenforces that.

Well it will be the 1st time a spacecraft goes to Pluto so expecting a perfect orbit insertion on such a small object might be too much and this mission might do better by exploring the outer solar system after studying Pluto

True. We've never done an orbital insertion on a binary planet before.

I'll feel better once a post-Pluto target is picked. They haven't said much about it yet cause its still at least a decade away.

#337 Re: Unmanned probes » New Horizons - mission to Pluto and the Kupier belt » 2006-09-06 20:16:14

New Horizon's science team member John Spencer has released an observation plan for the Jupiter encounter 27 Feb 2007:

# Time-resolved near-IR image cubes of the Great Red Spot and its surroundings, and high-resolution CCD imaging of the "Little Red Spot"
# Time series EUV/FUV observations of the Jovian aurorae, Io torus, and solar wind during Jupiter approach
# High spatial resolution UV and near-IR imaging of the Jovian aurorae and airglow
# UV stellar occultations observations of the atmospheres of Jupiter and all the Galilean satellites
# Global imaging of Io's plumes and post-Galileo surface changes
# Global imaging of high-temperature (0.4 - 2.5 micron) volcanic thermal emission from Io
# Observations of UV, and (in eclipse) visible and near-IR, atmospheric emissions from Io, Europa, and Ganymede
# Near terminator imaging of large-scale topographic features on Europa
# 1.25 - 2.5 micron spectroscopy of Galilean satellite surface composition, and similar spatial resolution and better spectral resolution than Galileo NIMS global observations
# Extensive imaging of Jupiter's rings to search for embedded satellites and improve knowledge of the ring structure
# Distant imaging of Himalia and Elara to determine shapes, sizes, and phase curves.
# Possible detection and characterization of Jovian dust streams
# Plasma observations of the magnetosphere, including an unprecedented 3-month flight down the magnetotail.

Thats impressive. Almost a mission in itself.

#338 Re: Not So Free Chat » Why does U.S.A. support Israel? - Finally, I'm Asking » 2006-08-28 21:05:07

What if I said that this war a proxy between modern Western civilization, and a loose collection of backwards extremist dictators who think their God tells them to conquer us?

Even though their God tells them so, at least in a way, I can only say it obviously isn't the case, and you know it. You're intelligent enough not be fooled by some fantasy worldview if you don't wish it. If you wish it, it's only because you want there to be 'good fights' to fight, so you can motivate a continuation of the martial virtues you believe in. Isn't that so, Cobra? If the Mideast wasn't a threat, you'd have to invent it.
Also, there is no risk Islam would ever conquer the west if we did not allow it. As it happens, they aren't doing it by force either.

Yeah, we had to invent some boogy men so we had some infidels to kill. roll

Why is it so hard to believe there actually are bad people out there? And I don't mean the stiff suit wearing white Christian men who try and take away your pot.

Actually, that was harsh. But if you can use sterotypes, so can I. wink

What if I said that this conflict would be occuring if Isreal existed or not?

No. That is simply unimaginable. What would such a conflict be about? How would Muslims be supposed to fight it? Under what leadership? Why?

You can learn a lot about your enemy by the company they keep. Take Osamas host, the Taliban. They banned everything they thought "too Western" because it might expose the people to something other than Islam. One of Osamas lifelong goals is to overthrow the House of Saud, the Royal family of Saudi Arabia. Why? Because when Saddam invaded Kuwait in 91, and threatened the Kingdom, his own flesh and blood turned to the West to save them, instead of his fighters who a few years before drove the Soviets out of Afganistan. All this crap, because some people who happened to not be Muslims saved his country from yet one more Arab madman. In Iran it's the same shiite, different country. The Shah was too western. Granted he was also a tad bit tyranical, and we backed him to combat the Russians. But you can hardly say the Iranian Revolution was launched to free the Iranian people. I could list offnearly every majority Muslim country, and they all have major issues with religious authorities trying to violently purge everything that introduces anything not uttered by a mullah. And even Europe is having issues  with its minority populations.

And no, this problem did not start with Isreal. Believe it or not, Isreal has a 20% Arab Muslim population that lives with all the rights, freedoms and respondsibilies as the Jews.

What I told you this was about the fundamental human question of where true faith comes from, within, or externally?

I don't understand what you are trying to say here.

I think Europeans and Americans often speak past eachother when it comes to Palestine and the Mideast. It could be our perceptions have been formed by different ways of reporting.
If the US wants to entertain an activist line and use force in regards to Palestine, Islam, the Mideast and defending Israel, it is useful to know why you are fighting and what you are defending.

Its quite simple. In the west, religion is between the individual and the Big Man upstairs, or downstairs, or nowhere. You have complete control of your spiritual destiny. In Muslim countries, religious authorities rule life, either socially, culturally, govermentally, or all of the above. Instead of freedom of religion, its freedom from sin. And there is only one reason for it, to perserve the power of those religious authoritys. And yes, extremists in all religions have done that in the past, and continue to try to do that, in every country, but most of them don't resort to mass murder anymore.

Now, most of the world seems more than willing to let that slide as long as they get their oil. Only that isn't working anymore. They seem to think that disengagement will keep them happy. But if it isn't Western oil workers "sinning up the place", it will be Isreal. If it isn't Isreal, it will be Darfur, or Kashmire, or Indonesia, Chechnya, or Bosnia, or the streets of Paris. The only way it will end is if we prove to them that they can not make themselves free from sin by blowing themselves up next to it. And the good news is most Muslims don't actually believe that. But far to many do. And it doesn't take many to make a big mess of things.

#340 Re: Interplanetary transportation » Ares I (CLV) - status » 2006-08-28 19:34:20

...Its funny how when people say 1/10th price it ends up ballooning to more like 20/10ths of the original price...

look at all ready available rocket prices... from India, Europe, USA, Russia... you will discover that ALL costs less the (espected) Ares-I and AresV prices

every (present and future) rocket is "low priced" if compared with them (and China is only the #1 specialist in "low price")

Ok, lets say, for the sake of argument, the US tried to buy launches from other countries. What do you think will happen to the price?

If your looking for hints, see what the Russians are charging for ISS crew transfers.

#341 Re: Human missions » We have a new planet - Ceres » 2006-08-25 21:32:26

No more arbitrary than saying a planet must destroy, capture, or kick out every other object in its neighborhood. And its more consistant to say a planet is a dwarf because its smaller than X than basing it on whats around it. No planet meets that standard.

#342 Re: Human missions » We have a new planet - Ceres » 2006-08-24 22:39:09

I don't think 'dwarf' is an appropriate name - people will still say 'planet'.

A whole new name should be created, something like planetoid would be perfect for instance - it suggests it is both planet-like and yet with characteristics like that of an asteroid.  Isn't that what Pluto, Xena, and even Ceres all have in common and yet each is still a unique world?

Astronomers are notorious uncreative...such as that 'Pluton' remark that geologists had to point out was already one of their terms.

In such a PC society, you can bet the lawyers will be all over this. We'll have to call them "Little People Planets".  tongue

They wanted to imply size, they could have solved the whole thing by setting a diameter requirement to be a planet. 750km for example.

#343 Re: Human missions » We have a new planet - Ceres » 2006-08-24 19:13:59

Oh well, that was fun while it lasted.

Ceres would have would have made a great planet, and drawn attention to everything else in its neck of the woods.

#344 Re: Human missions » ISS - Beware the Bear » 2006-08-24 09:10:24

Half the time, you can't get agencies within goverments to properly colaborate. What makes anyone think a project requiring multiple agencies of mulitiple goverments to colaborate would not have crippling problems? Particularly when all parties, within and between goverments, are required to dance the contradictory dance of both looking out for #1 and stroking everyone elses ego.

The only reason we've gotten this far on the ISS is because of the overwhelming inertial force of the US Congress. No other country has the combination of resources and will to do anything on their own.

Future international projects require 1 leader to set the technical standards and provide the core hardware and support. And a suitable launcher. Partners can provide supplementary, compatable hardware as long as they can launch it.

#345 Re: Interplanetary transportation » Ares I (CLV) - status » 2006-08-24 08:39:10

also, they don't need to build a big rocket to "dominate the space" since they can (simply) build and launch 30+ rockets (with 25 mT payload each) at the price of ONE AresV to "dominate" the space "market"

You mean like the Shuttle? That doesn't seem to be working all that well now does it?

China has awesome potenital. But its got at least 50 years of getting its own affairs in order to reach it.

#346 Re: Human missions » We have a new planet - Ceres » 2006-08-16 19:05:34

It definately adds a wrinkle.

It requires a combination of the lunar landing technology and surface ops, with the Mars transit technology. And since we basically have to do things in that order, it almost makes it a juicier target than Mars. Literally.

If we can harvest even a small amount of rocket fuel on the moon, that same technology can reap a massive crop on Ceres. And if we can transport it across interplanetary space, it with have an astronomical impact on space travel.

Kinda makes you wonder why it wasn't taken seriously before. It could really get the ball rolling.

#347 Re: Science, Technology, and Astronomy » Why Most Published Research Findings Are False » 2006-08-13 15:48:53

The whole Global Warming thing is little more that politition selling snake oil. We know that the Earth is going to warm and cool, with or without our help. The question is not how do we stop it, enless you intend to terraform the planet, but how do we learn to live with it.

#348 Re: Not So Free Chat » Why does U.S.A. support Israel? - Finally, I'm Asking » 2006-08-04 16:58:04

After reading the foregoing: All I've got to say is--it's all due to religious faith propaganda, and I say to hell with it.

Are you being intentionally ironic?  lol

#349 Re: Not So Free Chat » Why does U.S.A. support Israel? - Finally, I'm Asking » 2006-07-27 20:07:58

What if I said that this war a proxy between modern Western civilization, and a loose collection of backwards extremist dictators who think their God tells them to conquer us?

What if I said that this conflict would be occuring if Isreal existed or not?

What I told you this was about the fundamental human question of where true faith comes from, within, or externally?

#350 Re: Human missions » hot damn! Bigalow is up there! » 2006-07-24 18:53:36

As for Bigelow, I betcha he ends up selling habs back to NASA.

I certainly hope so. It would cut a decade off moon base development. And we'd get enough volume to do something useful.

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