New Mars Forums

You can't deny human nature.

For all we know, the human body can adapt to progessively higher gravities particularly with a 3-4 month trip to adapt in. That should cover us for the forseeable future.

Either way, theres still plenty of oxygen, and a CaLV load of H2 would go a long way.

Griffin is using this as a sacred cow to hold over Congresss' head. Within 6 months he'll say, "Ya know, I'd really like to launch it, but I'm not sure I can with the money you've given me."

Otherwise this is just passing the buck down the line. What happens in 2011? The same people will whine that they'll be without a scope.

So you think if we refuse to sell F-16's to Pakistan, they'll build schools instead?
.... And people wonder why we say Europe is dangerously niave.

No, they'll buy them from Russia. Even France is not above selling weapons of war to even less savory types. Which large western European country had it's planes exiled from the theater in the 1st Gulf War because their planes were identical to the ones flown by the Iraqis?

If you actually buy that figure, then, well, we've already established that your dangerously naive.

Saddams WMD's were not going to save his regime whether he used them or not. Why forever prove us right, when he can do more lasting damage by making sure whatevers left doesn't fall into American hands. And have the world fall for it hook line and sinker.

If you don't like Pakistan cause its not a democracy, how would you like it if it was?

Mussariff is not a madman, and that is why he has our support. He lives under considerable threat to his life trying to keep Pakistans nukes out of the hands of extremists, and everyone should be dam thankful that we do. Someday Pakistan will be a democracy, but if that were to happen today, if would become a parking lot tommorrow, along with large parts of India, and God knows how many western capitals. And Don't think for a minute that good ol' Pari would be immune.

We done know what happen to Saddams WMDs, other than to say they were not is a state to be militarily effective when we invaded. We still find a 80's era shell here and there (non-functional as artillery, but the stuff inside was still deadly), telling us he did not destroy them himself, and the UN was incapable of finding them.

Whatever happen to the rest of them, we may never know. But we do know that Saddam, to this day, is still "unrepentant". Had the regime change policy not been taken, he would have eventually reemerged under sanctions and posed a threat once again.

As for being stable, don't think for a minute that the sectarian violence occuring on the streets of Bagdad today wasn't occuring under Saddam. It was, and by Saddams direction. The only difference was Saddam did it quietly, and Shia and the Kurds took the brunt of it. Did you miss all the picutres of the mass graves?

In fact, much of our problems today stem from Saddams rule. Sunni's fear having their roles reversed, and Shia fear being the punching bag again. Extremist on both side fuel those fears, and the innocent majority are paying the price. In the wider scheme of things this is a 1000+ year Islamic blood fued that the world was bound to have to deal sooner or later.

Preventing unauthorized entry, for whatever reason is the right of every soveriegn nation, and is nothing to be offended by.

Quite frankly so much of Canada and her coasts are remote enough that anyone could enter the country, and then enter the US without anyone knowing about it.

At this point, I'm just wondering were it ends. I don't see this regime going down peacefully. I don't want to see Seoul destroyed, but I don't want to see Tokyo, Okinowa, Pearl Harbor, or LA destroyed either. IF we wait, and he gets a deliverable nuke, then our only defense is MAD. The longer we wait the fewer choices we have.

As for the tactical situation, I don't think the North Koreans would get all that far if they crossed the border. They rely on mass waves of easily destroyed equipment. Our Abrams will clog the roads with dead NK tanks before they can get a shot off. NKs only hope is to saturate an area with artillery in hope that we'll pull back. Once were out of range of their pre placed guns, the battle swings massively in our favor. Give the Air Force a week or 2 to clean them out and the battle is over.

There is a big danger in abandoning the Moon too soon as the focus of manned exploration. The development of lunar surface systems is viatl to making Mars missions worthwhile. We must have a permenantly manned outpost capable of independant growth on the Moon before turning our attention to Mars. That way when we do go to Mars, we don't repeat the mistakes of Apollo, and can instead forever stamp ourselves on the red dust of Mars in one conserted effort.

The key wild card is how far the Chinese get in their program in the years ahead. They, in the next couple years are going to take big leaps in terms of manned launches, space walks, and small stations. How we respond is going to make the difference. We can either speed up by properly funding the VSE independant of the Shuttle program in the 2008-2011 time frame, putting us on course for a 2015-16 lunar landing and a high sortie rate, and solid plans for lunar outposts, or continue our agonizing pace and risk falling behind.

I want us to take our time on the Moon, so all the world can see what it means to scrape out an existance on another world. A steady effort in the 20's and 30's will make real, meaningful expeditions to Mars in the 40's a reality. Then, the whole Solar System will be open to us.

Phobos and Deimos are both covered in about a meter of loose dust, which I would imagine would make any surface operations very difficult. Its been theorized that blasting the regolith on the moon with high energy microwaves could create a smooth solid surface. If the same were done on the Martian moons, it would give us a solid surface to land on, and eliminate that particular difficulty. Whether or not that would destroy anything scientifically usefull is anyones guess at this point.

Once that is accomplished its fantastic place to put just about anything.

So does that mean we can only thier cells with things that give them happy thoughts? Like butterflys and singing birds and the entrails of a pigdog American infidel?

Its a prison. Get over it.

That isn't well described in the document, and offers a tempting alternetive.