Ares I (CLV) - status

Mars_B4_Moon · 2007-04-26 04:33:49

http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Scrap … k_Now.html
http://www.nasaproblems.com/

Ares I won't fly, John Young is saying

Will it finally be proven to be unworkable?

Let’s hope for a revival of the methane engine.

In 2019 they will be doing some emotional, melancholy, trip-down memory-lane....re-enactment of Armstrong and Aldrin on the 50th anniversary of Apollo, they don't need Methane Engines for this

cIclops · 2007-04-26 06:39:14

Ares I won't fly, John Young is saying

Ares I will fly, it's John Young that won't.

GCNRevenger · 2007-04-26 08:45:40

Ares I won't fly, John Young is saying
Ares I will fly, it's John Young that won't.

Yep. When people stop doing what you want them to do and it damages your fragile yet megalomanical ego? What is the proper response? To get even of course. How do you do that? Feed rumors of doom to the NASA-hating media, which has an absolute blood lust for ways to stick it to GW Bush.

How is this hard to understand?

Mars_B4_Moon · 2007-04-26 09:40:56

Yep. When people stop doing what you want them to do and it damages your fragile yet megalomanical ego?

I don't think Young has a megalomanic ego, yes he was one of the flyboys of the day but he is not a person that put himself before the program and was willing to to take brave risks to help NASA beat the Soviets.
John is a man who knows what he's talking about, has been an advisor and has intimate knowledge of 4 different types of spacecraft.

What is the proper response? To get even of course. How do you do that? Feed rumors of doom to the NASA-hating media, which has an absolute blood lust for ways to stick it to GW Bush.

It's not just hateful Bush-bashing because is the job of the media to ask questions, break-news, investiage new reports so it wouldn't not matter if Clinton or Reagan were in power, the media would still be asking the same questions,
Can NASA afford to fix Hubble?
Will the ISS ever be finished ?
Is it possible to bring democracy to the Arabian Peninsula ?
Why is the Shuttle so expensive ? Can we afford the Moon & Mars ?
Will VSE be a failure like his father's vision ?

GCNRevenger · 2007-04-26 17:54:35

It's not just hateful Bush-bashing because is the job of the media to ask questions, break-news, investiage new reports so it wouldn't not matter if Clinton or Reagan were in power, the media would still be asking the same questions

Boy have you been living under a rock for six years.

NASA can probably afford to fix Hubble if it came down to it, but it will probably have to come at the expense of an ISS assembly mission.

As far as the ISS being "finished," define finished. Much of the space science justification for it existing is hogwash or cut when science was reallocated to exploration, so does it really need to be finished to the pre-Columbia specification? Done enough for a little science, zero-G training, and Mars hardware testing? We can probably do that by 2010.

Where did the bit about the Middle East come from?

Yes, we can afford Moon and Mars... but just.

The original "space vision" by Bush Senior, going by the ageis of "SEI" or something like that, was pretty obviously a red herring. NASA put together a crazy plan they knew, quite obviously, the price tag would send accountants and congressmen into a seizure. This was done to protect the Shuttle/Space Station status quo, in order to maintain NASA's cut of the national budget. It worked.

In fact, of all the things NASA has honestly set its mind to, which quite often has nothing to do with the stated goals, succeeded as spectacularly as Apollo.

Yang Liwei Rocket · 2007-05-05 15:49:15

So maybe the quoted price is off for the upper stage.
I am more concerned thou with how the contract will get written in that Nasa has a habit of not paying per piece but writting that the company delivers per request but is paid full contract value regardless how many get made. Of course the contract that Nasa writes for the contractors gets written for the largest quantity value and the dollars are inflated to cover that number. The contractor laughs all the way to the bank knowing that there is extra cash in it for them.

I've been reading the Ares-V is coming along great, crew are going to be launched the day after the LSAM/EDS stack, however I've also been reading about online rumors more talk of downsizing the CEV and the EELV fans are unhappy and there has been more chat on more of the CEV/CLV problems.

Let's hope NASA can fix this.

cIclops · 2007-05-08 08:54:20

New J-2X test stand at Stennis - 8 May 2007

BAY ST. LOUIS, Miss. - NASA will test one of the rocket engines it is developing for its new launch vehicles at the Stennis Space Center in Mississippi. The agency will build a new test stand at Stennis for the J-2X engine. The engine will power the upper stages of NASA's Ares I and Ares V rockets.
Stennis already is home to Apollo-era test stands that have served the nation's space program through the shuttle era. The newly proposed structure will be the first large test stand built at the center since the 1960s. Unlike the older structures, the new 300-foot-tall, open-frame design will allow engineers to simulate conditions at different altitudes.
NASA engineers need to simulate various altitudes to test the J-2X's ability to function as a second stage engine for the Ares I crew launch vehicle and the Earth Departure Stage engine for the Ares V cargo launch vehicle. To do that, the test stand will generate approximately 4,620 pounds per second of steam and use it to reduce the engine test cell pressure.
NASA will complete the new stand in time to support the first J-2X engine test in December 2010. An existing test stand at Stennis also is being modified to test the J-2X engine at sea level conditions.
Ares I will launch the Orion spacecraft, taking astronauts to the International Space Station no later than 2015, then to the moon by 2020. The Ares V will carry cargo and components into orbit for trips to the moon and later to Mars. The new spacecraft are key components of NASA's Constellation Program.
"This new test stand will enable the critical testing needed to verify the Ares I upper stage engine performance at altitude conditions," said Stennis Center Director Rick Gilbrech. "The Apollo-era test stands have served us well over the last forty years, and I'm excited that NASA will have a new stand to help us accomplish these new goals."
The test stand, along with its control center, propellant barge docks and access roadways, will be built in Stennis A Complex.

GCNRevenger · 2007-05-08 09:10:23

*Grumble* Or maybe they could just build the test stand in Colorado at 5000ft ASL instead of building a 300ft tower, able to resist hundreds of thousands of pounds of thrust and trying to pump cryogenic propellants up to it, in a hurricane-prone area. *Grumble*

cIclops · 2007-05-08 10:09:57

Not enough pork? If the citizens of Colorado built a tower about 40 miles high that might convince NASA to site the new test stand there. Seriously, it's logical to put the high altitude test stand near the sea level one as they will share a lot of the facilities and having all those people in the same place actually makes sense.

cIclops · 2007-05-10 03:44:17

Gas Strut First Stage Separation System - 8 May 2007 MSFC Solicitation

The National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA) is in the process developing a design for the Ares I Launch Vehicle Upper Stage. The Ares I architecture requires that the Upper Stage provide a method of separation from the First Stage after the First Stage has expended its usable energy and prior to the start of the Upper Stage Engine. The current design solution uses Space Shuttle Booster Separation Motors BSMs (renamed Booster Deceleration Motors (BDMs) to more accurately describe their Ares I application) to separate the Ares I First Stage from the Upper Stage.
It has been suggested that a separation system using struts driven by compressed gas might be a preferable alternative with cost, additional payload mass to orbit, reduction in hardware and operations complexity, and safety cited as potential advantages. NASA is now conducting a trade study to provide a systematic approach to defining and developing the gas strut separation process and to objectively compare it to the baseline BDM separation process in order to identify the preferred separation process. The current concept for the gas separation struts would have the struts driven by the adiabatic expansion of a compressed gas within a cylinder surrounding the strut and its associated piston. The strut extension would be of order six feet and the struts would be required to exert a force of approximately 7000 pounds.

cIclops · 2007-05-11 10:12:15

Constellation Ground Operations review completed

WASHINGTON - NASA has established a requirements baseline for ground systems to be developed in support of the Constellation Program. The systems requirements review was conducted at NASA's Kennedy Space Center in Florida on May 5.
"Completion of the systems requirements review marks a major milestone in executing the development of ground systems, as well as operations strategies to support the next generation of space vehicles," said Tip Talone, Constellation's Ground Operations Project manager at Kennedy. The space center will be the launch site for future missions to low Earth orbit, the moon and other destinations in the solar system.
The review was an in-depth look at the basic capabilities necessary to support space vehicle integration and ground processing; launch processing infrastructure, including the vehicle assembly building, launch pads and launch control center; launch vehicle protection systems; launch checkout and control; crew safety and emergency egress; and fault tolerance requirements for the systems. Agency and contractor engineers from across the country reviewed the requirements. The requirements will be applied to all launch, landing and recovery activities for the Orion crew exploration vehicle, Ares I crew launch vehicle and Ares V cargo launch vehicle.
The ground operations team established plans for ensuring the requirements will be clearly communicated to hardware developers so the systems developed will comply with all relevant agency program and project requirements.
After completion of all project-level reviews, the Constellation Program plans an integrated review in late May to update and synchronize all Constellation Program baseline requirements.

cIclops · 2007-05-11 11:26:59

Ares Quarterly Progress Report #4 (Real Video 10:09 mins)

Professional video presentation from labs, test stands, machinery etc etc featuring:

* Systems Integration Laboratory - primary facility for initial integration of the avionics and flight software systems
* Computer simulation of abort scenarios
* Ground wind loads checkout model in the Langley Transonic Dynamics Tunnel
* Manufacturing process for the new insulation in the 5 segment SRM
* J-2X sub-scale injector hardware testing
* Friction stir welding
* Al-Li panel testing
* Ares I-X (first test flight) RCS engine tests

cIclops · 2007-05-17 06:21:05

Contract for Developmental First Stage Roll Control Engines - 15 May 2007

HUNTSVILLE, Ala. – NASA has selected Aerojet-General Corp. of Redmond, Wash., to provide developmental engines for the Ares I crew launch vehicle first stage roll control system.
These engines are the first in a series of steps to develop the roll control system to manage the amount of rotation by the first stage solid rocket from liftoff to its separation from the second stage, ensuring that Ares I stays on the designated trajectory for the first two minutes of flight. The engines being developed by Aerojet under this contract will be used to mature the roll control system that will be used on the Ares I tests program.
The Ares I crew launch vehicle will transport the Orion crew exploration vehicle, its crew or other small cargo payloads to low-Earth orbit. The first stage will consist of a single solid rocket booster similar to those used on the space shuttle, but with a fifth motor segment added. An upper stage consisting of a J-2X liquid hydrogen, liquid oxygen engine and the associated propellant tanks and fuel distribution systems will complete the trip to orbit.
The cost-plus-fixed-fee contract - a competitive award - has an 11-month period of performance with a potential total value of $8.1 million, if the additional 11- month contract option for engine fabrication and testing is exercised.

cIclops · 2007-05-22 14:19:19

Solicitation notice: Construction of the Mobile Launcher (ML) - 18 May 2007

NASA/KSC plans to issue a Draft Request for Proposal (DRFP), followed by the formal Request For Proposals (RFP), for the construction of the Constellation's Crew Launch Vehicle (CLV) Mobile Launcher(s)(ML). This project will provide the ML system to support transport, processing and launch of the Constellation CLV vehicle. The system will consist of the main support structure and the facility systems (HVAC, facility power and communications, life safety, and water cooling and water wash-down) that will support the CLV vehicle and vehicle Ground Support Equipment (GSE) and interface with existing facilities and utilities at the ML park site, the Vehicle Assembly Building (VAB), and the launch pads. The function of the ML is to assemble, test, check-out, service, transfer to the launch pad, support on-pad aborts of, and launch the Crew Exploration Vehicle (CEV) and CLV in support of the KSC Constellation project. The work to be performed essentially consists of providing all the labor, materials and equipment to construct the CLV ML. The RFP may contain an option for an additional ML.
The order of magnitude for the procurement is more than $10M and the effort shall be completed within 525 calendar days after notice to proceed.

Yang Liwei Rocket · 2007-05-26 07:30:29

Ares I won't fly, John Young is saying
Ares I will fly, it's John Young that won't.
Yep. When people stop doing what you want them to do and it damages your fragile yet megalomanical ego? What is the proper response? To get even of course. How do you do that? Feed rumors of doom to the NASA-hating media, which has an absolute blood lust for ways to stick it to GW Bush.
How is this hard to understand?

John Young is a highly respected person, he helped the Apollo program but when he got critical of NASA's safety record they tried to move him away. He finshed up in 2005 after doing some great work for NASA, VSE was announced January 2004 so before retirement he had inside knowledge of the VSE program

there has been more chat on the web about more of the CEV/CLV problems.

Let's hope NASA can fix this.

cIclops · 2007-05-26 08:05:09

Young retired 31 Dec 2004, months before the ESAS and the Ares concept was completed, and even longer before the Orion contract was awarded.

There's always rumors and speculation on the web as in other media, just because there are rumors does not mean they are true! There are many many message in this thread about the status of Ares I, it has passed many reviews, tests have been done and contracts have been awarded. Right now Orion is being designed by Lockheed and the Ares I Upper Stage development contract is being competed. This is all real.

GCNRevenger · 2007-05-26 08:24:40

John Young is a pilot, he does not design space vehicles anyway.

cIclops · 2007-06-06 11:43:50

Proposal Request for Avionics Unit - 6 Jun 2007

WASHINGTON - NASA has issued a request for proposal for key guidance, navigation and control hardware for the new Ares I crew launch vehicle. The upper stage instrument unit avionics will be used during the Ares I ascent.
Proposals are due no later than 2 p.m. EDT July 30, with a selection expected in November. The contract will be awarded through a full and open competition.
The avionics unit will be mounted on the Ares I upper stage. It will provide guidance, navigation and control for the entire launch vehicle as it transports the Orion crew exploration vehicle to low Earth orbit.
The request for proposal calls for the selected contractor to partner with the NASA design team to provide engineering support during the design phase. It also specifies that the contractor will produce avionics for the development and flight program and will provide sustained engineering support for the upper stage avionics system through 2016.

Solicitation details

Latest Ares I / Upper Stage Milestones:

Upper Stage PDR..............................May 2008
Upper Stage CDR..............................November 2009
MPTA Test Activation.........................September 2010
Upper Stage GVT Test Activation........November 2011
Ares 2 Mission .................................September 2012
Upper Stage DCR.............................December 2012
Orion 3 Mission.................................March 2013
Orion 4 Mission (IOC)....................September 2013
Orion 5 Mission.................................March 2014
Orion 6 Mission.................................September 2014
Orion 7 Mission.................................March 2015
Orion 8 Mission.................................September 2015
Orion 9 Mission.................................March 2016
Orion 10 Mission...............................September 2016

cIclops · 2007-06-08 07:05:01

Briefing charts from Exploration update - 7 Jun 2007

Exploration briefing update - (video 68 mins) - 7 Jun 2007

Interesting comments:

o Working towards an Initial Operating Capability (IOC) of a first human flight of the Ares I/Orion in September 2013.

o 65% confidence level of achieving IOC by March 2015 under current funding profile

o Ares I will launch 90 minutes after Ares V if onorbit checkout is ok and rendevous the same day

o Ares I performance is within margin for both ISS and the more demanding Lunar missions

Yang Liwei Rocket · 2007-06-13 02:51:04

Political Objections to Ares 1 Are Apparently On The Rise

cIclops · 2007-06-13 06:13:51

Political Objections to Ares 1 Are Apparently On The Rise

Note the word apparently, Cowing bashes NASA at every opportunity. Various bloggers and forum posters have tried hard to wreck the Ares project, they have made stuff up and spun every piece of information available. They denigrate NASA, ATK and Lockheed engineers and Mike Griffin without any evidence.

Nothing is more predictable than the media’s parroting of it’s own fictions and the terror of each competitor that it will be scooped by others, whether or not the story is true…. In the news game these days we don’t have the staff, time, interest, energy, literacy or minimal sense of responsibility to check our facts by any means except calling up whatever has been written by other hacks on the same subject and repeating it as gospel. (John le Carre, The Tailor of Panama)

gaetanomarano · 2007-06-13 16:20:51

...bloggers and forum posters have tried hard to wreck the Ares project...

but you should admit that Ares-I is not the best and smartest idea of the century nor the world's "eighth marvel"

.

cIclops · 2007-06-13 17:50:10

but you should admit that Ares-I is not the best and smartest idea of the century nor the world's "eighth marvel"

Who said Ares I (note the correct name) is the either of those things?

NASA claim that Ares I will be much safer, more reliable and cheaper to operate than the Shuttle. These are very sensible desirable goals and so far NASA seems to be achieving them.

gaetanomarano · 2007-06-13 18:05:40

much safer

:?: :?: :?: :?:

more reliable

:?: :?: :?: :?:

cheaper

.

neviden · 2007-06-14 19:35:33

NASA claim that Ares I will be much safer, more reliable and cheaper to operate than the Shuttle. These are very sensible desirable goals and so far NASA seems to be achieving them.

You are right. This is quite achievable. But, this is true only because this is hardly very hard goal to achieve. Manned access to space for less then $5 billion dollars a year after everything is designed and built. Soooo hard..

The only reason why Ares I is going to be built is political. So, if politics change, there goes Ares I to the dustbin. Ares V might be a good idea, but Ares I…

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Re: Ares I (CLV) - status

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#375 2007-06-14 19:35:33

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