Hubble to be fixed - Huzzah!

cIclops · 2006-11-03 00:42:57

Your spending $800mil on a mission to extend an aging scope with an irresplacable Shuttle and 7 lives for an extra 5 years when for an extra $200mil you can get a brand new scope capable of far more science that isn't designed to need regular repairs with a ship that won't exist.
Were are my values indeed.

Yes the Hubble Orgins Probe (HOP) would have replaced HST with a clone based on newer technology. The estimated cost was $800 - $1000 million, interestingly SM-4 is now costing $900m. However much of that $900m has already been spent (and funded by Congress) and is offset against the Shuttle program whereas HOP would have needed all new money. The HOP team didn't have the political influence of the HST one. Was there a formal analysis of the HOP project done by NASA?

SpaceNut · 2007-03-15 05:21:26

Griffin said in response to a question posed during a hearing of the House Appropriations Subcommittee on Commerce, Justice and Science Hubble could last until 2010 without shuttle visit

But every month the mission is delayed, costs NASA $10 million to keep the servicing mission together,
A report from the Government Accountability Office, citing NASA estimates, set the cost of the Hubble servicing mission at between $1.7 billion and $2.4 billion.

So the real question comes for the what if Nasa waits and shuttle gets retire before a mission happens?
Also waiting means the equipment that has been build will need to be tested before it goes up.

cIclops · 2007-03-15 07:10:40

So the real question comes for the what if Nasa waits and shuttle gets retire before a mission happens?
Also waiting means the equipment that has been build will need to be tested before it goes up.

Shuttle is the only vehicle capable of reaching Hubble with the equipment and crew needed to service it. If SM-4 is canceled that's it, there's no other way. Hubble is starting to fail right now, it's possible that when SM-4 happens Hubble may not even be working. Without SM-4 it's not expected to last very long beyond 2008. The rescheduling of SM-4 gives more time to prepare the mission and better test the new equipment.

cIclops · 2007-04-27 11:28:29

From Aviation Week Space Channel

New Device Could Extend Hubble's Service Life
Apr 27, 2007
By Frank Morring, Jr./Aerospace Daily & Defense Report
GODDARD SPACE FLIGHT CENTER, Md. - Future astronauts may be able to keep the Hubble Space Telescope operating indefinitely thanks to a piece of hardware that will be attached to the observatory during next year's planned servicing mission.
Although there are no plans to continue in-orbit upkeep on the telescope after next year's visit (STS-125/HST-SM4), Hubble engineers here are keeping the option open. The space shuttle fleet will be retired about two years after Atlantis delivers the last scheduled Hubble repair crew in September 2008, but the final servicing mission will leave a next-generation docking device attached to the telescope that could be used for a visit by a different piloted vehicle after the shuttles are grounded for good in 2010.
Left to its own devices, the telescope's natural orbital decay will bring it back into the atmosphere sometime between 2022 and 2028, provided the upcoming servicing mission is a success. To keep that from happening over a populated area, the crew of STS-125 will attach the passive half of the Low Impact Docking System (LIDS) NASA has baselined for the Orion crew exploration vehicle and other human spacecraft under development for the post-shuttle era.
Plans call for a future robotic vehicle to use the LIDS ring and a retro-reflector homing target that will be installed with it to attach a deorbit motor to the telescope for a controlled re-entry over the Pacific Ocean. But a human crew also could use the ring, and in the next 15 to 20 years a way may be found for Orion or some other human vehicle already on the drawing board to handle the extra hardware needed to service the Hubble.
If it is, the telescope could continue to operate in tandem with those of its sister spaceborne "Great Observatories" still functioning, the James Webb Space Telescope set for launch in 2013, and other space-based telescopes to come.
"There's a lot of ways to dispose of something," says Michael L. Weiss, deputy associate director for Hubble here. "You can raise it to a higher orbit; you can do a controlled re-entry; perhaps [you can] even service it again, boost it and let it perform science. We don't know what that answer is yet, but we're going to give Hubble a fighting chance of accommodating future capabilities that the agency will have."

Yang Liwei Rocket · 2007-05-06 10:58:42

The half billion dollars is still better spent on a replacement.

Replacements aren't so easy to build they were trying to build a replacement, the JWST, it has already clocked-up 3 $ billion but it has also cost over-run by about half a billion dollars, it won't be launched until 2013

SpaceNut · 2007-05-06 20:22:35

JSWT is an advanced telescope not like Hubble and while the HOP is closer to a direct replacement it still when using the hardware that was for the service mission was still in the neighborhood of a Billion dollars.

cIclops · 2007-05-07 05:07:15

Replacements aren't so easy to build they were trying to build a replacement, the JWST, it has already clocked-up 3 $ billion but it has also cost over-run by about half a billion dollars, it won't be launched until 2013

This May 2006 document from the National Academies (8MB PDF) has some scary numbers:

in $ billions

Observatory .......... HST ...Chandra.... JWST (projected)
Development cost .. 4.1 ..... 3.4 .......... 3.3
Lifecycle cost.......... 7.5 ...... 3.8 .......... 4.5

and space science doesn't get funded huh?

Yang Liwei Rocket · 2007-05-08 12:25:46

This May 2006 document from the National Academies (8MB PDF) has some scary numbers:
in $ billions
Observatory .......... HST ...Chandra.... JWST (projected)
Development cost .. 4.1 ..... 3.4 .......... 3.3
Lifecycle cost.......... 7.5 ...... 3.8 .......... 4.5
and space science doesn't get funded huh?

I agree that robotics and unmanned missions have enjoyed some nice funding over the past years, but what they get is still pocket change compared to what NASA was spending on it's recent manned flight program, the space station may have cost over 90 billion, the Space Shuttle costs about 1 and a half billion per launch and the program may have cost 200 billion by the time Shuttle retires.

SpaceNut · 2007-06-27 20:54:02

Addition resources on Dexter
Hubble: Robot to the rescue?
NASA moves forward with a plan to service the Hubble Space Telescope without the space shuttle.
http://www.astronomy.com/asy/default.aspx?c=a&id=2377

Hard to believe it was that long ago that this was floating around as a means to make the repair as the shuttle was so unsafe to ever use again...

CSA: Dextre, One Step Closer to the International Space Station the third and final element of the Mobile Servicing System which is part of Canada's contribution to the International Space Station (ISS), was delivered to NASA's Kennedy Space Centre (KSC) in Florida last week.

SpaceNut · 2008-03-22 13:11:27

Seems so odd to see the above post as the Dexter was just delivered to the ISS.

There are still issues thou with doing this repair as a second shuttle must still be ready to go.

Then there is the possibility that Atlantis may not be retired early as well which is still up in the air.

Fuel tank may stall Atlantis

Shuttle Atlantis' August mission to repair the Hubble Space Telescope might be delayed by problems with building the shuttle's redesigned external tanks. That possibility exists," NASA spokesman Allard Beutel said. "Right now, we are still officially targeting Aug. 28, while managers do an assessment of the tank schedule."

The next shuttle to fly will be Discovery's May 25 mission. The tank is on a barge set to arrive Tuesday at Kennedy Space Center.

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#26 2006-11-03 00:42:57

Re: Hubble to be fixed - Huzzah!

#27 2007-03-15 05:21:26

Re: Hubble to be fixed - Huzzah!

#28 2007-03-15 07:10:40

Re: Hubble to be fixed - Huzzah!

#29 2007-04-27 11:28:29

Re: Hubble to be fixed - Huzzah!

#30 2007-05-06 10:58:42

Re: Hubble to be fixed - Huzzah!

#31 2007-05-06 20:22:35

Re: Hubble to be fixed - Huzzah!

#32 2007-05-07 05:07:15

Re: Hubble to be fixed - Huzzah!

#33 2007-05-08 12:25:46

Re: Hubble to be fixed - Huzzah!

#34 2007-06-27 20:54:02

Re: Hubble to be fixed - Huzzah!

#35 2008-03-22 13:11:27

Re: Hubble to be fixed - Huzzah!

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