The Clean-Slate City-State

Michael Bloxham · 2007-04-20 18:02:05

I've just added a whole bunch of stuff to the CleanSlate Society forum:

http://cleanslate.editboard.com/Discuss … ics-f2.htm

Check out the "The Clean-Slate City-State" thread.

Please feel free to add your comments to some of the other topics as well.

Cheers,

-Mike

noosfractal · 2007-04-20 20:36:14

I was lucky enough to visit that area about this time last year. Very remote. Very beautiful.

Michael Bloxham · 2007-04-21 06:09:38

Yeah, I think thats a view from within Cape Arid. The proposed site of Esperance City will be about 100km further east down this coast, well away from the national park, but sharing the same breathtaking beaches.

Edit: Actually, according to this map, the proposed site is well within the boundaries of the park! It is very close to the area marked 'Isralite Bay'. Hmm... must have not done my research properly.

Nevertheless, the fact that this area is protected with national park status should attest to the beauty of the region. Likewise, the term 'Cape Arid' suggests at how dry and barren most of the land here is. Hopefully, the Australian government will allow the clean-slate city to be built here if proper assurances are made that the park remain protected. Construction will have to be concentrated within a restricted area, rather than have development sprawl throughout the park.

Michael Bloxham · 2007-04-21 06:38:04

Actually, it seems there are a high number of bird species that live within the park.

http://www.naturebase.net/component/opt … temid,755/

This would be a problem, as the city will probably have a bad influence on the birds, although this may not necessarily have to be the case. Perhaps this might not be an ideal spot for the clean-slate city after all.

Josh Cryer · 2007-04-21 21:57:29

Hi Michael, I like this idea a lot. Of course it would be super expensive to create and all that, but it's still a novel (if noble) idea. Self-sufficiency is something humans really ought to be attempting to attain.

Have you seen Jeff Vail's stuff?

http://www.jeffvail.net/index.html

Michael Bloxham · 2007-04-21 22:59:59

Yeah, thanks for providing that link Josh, it seems to be an interesting site.

The other big killer idea is to design and plan the city entirely in a comprehensive virtual environment. Doing this would have many huge advantages, many of which concern generating international investment.

I've often wondered whether international governments or organizations might jump on the project. The city will be a huge investment opportunity on its own. I remeber New Scientist magazine published an article suggesting that a clean-slate 'Ecopolis' might be the only hope for the future of mankind (it was them not me!). Esperance City should attract the minds of many environmentalists (and doom-sayers, I guess).

I dunno, I guess the potential is obvious, and what is not obvious only gets better as you look into it further.

Michael Bloxham · 2007-08-03 09:51:34

FYI, I've just added heaps more info to the site.

Check out the top three topics at http://cleanslate.editboard.com/Discuss … ics-f2.htm.

Tell me what you think.

noosfractal · 2007-08-04 03:00:35

Tell me what you think.

When I think of what I like about particular cities it mostly comes down to climate and culture. The premise of Clean Slate City seems to be efficiency. Now, I'll admit that traffic jams are no fun and that cheap electricity is nice, but I wonder if you aren't planning the 21st century version of the Chicago Housing Projects.

They started out with the best of intentions - high efficiency, low cost housing - but became pretty much hell on Earth. There are a million arguments as to why, but it has become common to say things like "they were torn from their organic social networks and subjected to alien social networks as artificial as the structures themselves" and "the fabric of an urban community is not physical, but woven from the interrelationships of its members."

How will you prevent Clean Slate City from becoming another Chicago Housing Project? How will you stop the government of the host nation from dumping their poor there? How will you grow healthy social networks? How will people feel ownership when so much is handed to them on a plate, when the place has no history? What will stop the leadership from exploiting whatever resources the City provides for personal gain and then moving back to New York?

Even if you are successful, won't other cities in the host nation become jealous of your efficiency and demand that the government reduce your competitiveness with tariffs and taxes? Won't the government of the host nation seek to maximize total revenue by roughly equalizing development in each of its regions?

Michael Bloxham · 2007-08-04 23:37:02

I'm not sure how much emphasis I put in that particular text, but the number one rule of this clean-slate city-state should be that it is not idealistic. I think the dystopian painting at the top is throwing readers off...

But yeah, I think too much wishful thinking during planning has ruined clean-slate city projects of the past. To avoid that, this city should be designed in a way that it gives the illusion of development history and organic growth. Portions of it may attempt to replicate great historic meditierranean cities. Other parts may be like London or New York. Variety should be the number one mantra.

The other difference is that this city will be its own sovereign state; isolated from the rest of the country. I can imagine the initial demographic of immigrants will be something like that of Dubai, where at least initially, people will pay a premium to live and work in the city. People will come here because they want to, not because of need. It will not be a 'dumping ground for the poor'.

noosfractal · 2007-08-05 00:08:11

Portions of it may attempt to replicate great historic meditierranean cities. Other parts may be like London or New York. Variety should be the number one mantra.

Hmmm, it seems I need to step back a bit.

What will be the advantages of Clean Slate City over conventional cities? Maybe we could just focus on, say, the top 3 advantages for the moment.

this city will its own sovereign state; isolated from the rest of the country

Why will Australia cede sovereign control of its territory to you? In particular, why will it give up its power to tax Clean Slate City?

people will pay a premium to live and work in the city. People will come here because they want to, not because of need. It will not be a 'dumping ground for the poor'.

Is Clean Slate City only possible if its inhabitants are wealthy?

In your mind, what are the main problems caused by including poor people?

Michael Bloxham · 2007-08-05 00:30:36

Good questions.

"The Clean Slate Solution" (http://cleanslate.editboard.com/Discuss … on-t23.htm) should give you some answers.

But there are myriad advantages that a clean-slate city could have over established cities. I believe there are already a few clean-slate cities popping up in asia. But the fact that this will be a clean-slate government aswell puts it on another a level.

Why will Australia cede sovereign control of its territory to you? In particular, why will it give up its power to tax Clean Slate City?

That is a very good question. The reason they might do this is because 1. they have nothing to lose (its a desolate piece of land with no natural resources), and 2. they have a great deal to gain. That is, there will be economic benefit to Australia from the project. Perhaps I should cover this in more detail later...

Is Clean Slate City only possible if its inhabitants are wealthy?
In your mind, what are the main problems caused by including poor people?

I can imagine that the city will be seen as an attractive and desirable place to live. Hopefully, if demand outstrips supply, high premiums will be paid to reserve a spot in the city. However, as the city grows, the economy will diversify. And to ensure international competitiveness (in the manufacturing industry for example) then there would have to be people willing to work for low wages. So yeah, you'd eventually allow a lower class to migrate to the city to support these industries. But I can imagine that even this lower class will be better off than most, what with the advantages of a good wellfare system, government employment system, etc.

noosfractal · 2007-08-05 01:09:09

Good questions.
"The Clean Slate Solution" (http://cleanslate.editboard.com/Discuss … on-t23.htm) should give you some answers.

Ah, I didn't realize you were requiring apocalyptic oil & climate scenarios. Yes, well, I suppose in that situation everything is possible.

Michael Bloxham · 2007-08-05 05:17:47

Moreover, it doesn't really require these aforementioned apocalyptic scenarios to actually take place. I'm hoping international concern will be enough by itself. But there are other advantages too, which I shall cover further. I'll keep you posted.

Michael Bloxham · 2008-02-02 16:17:38

Aren't these apocalyptic scenarios mainstream predictions?

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#1 2007-04-20 18:02:05

Re: The Clean-Slate City-State

#2 2007-04-20 20:36:14

Re: The Clean-Slate City-State

#3 2007-04-21 06:09:38

Re: The Clean-Slate City-State

#4 2007-04-21 06:38:04

Re: The Clean-Slate City-State

#5 2007-04-21 21:57:29

Re: The Clean-Slate City-State

#6 2007-04-21 22:59:59

Re: The Clean-Slate City-State

#7 2007-08-03 09:51:34

Re: The Clean-Slate City-State

#8 2007-08-04 03:00:35

Re: The Clean-Slate City-State

#9 2007-08-04 23:37:02

Re: The Clean-Slate City-State

#10 2007-08-05 00:08:11

Re: The Clean-Slate City-State

#11 2007-08-05 00:30:36

Re: The Clean-Slate City-State

#12 2007-08-05 01:09:09

Re: The Clean-Slate City-State

#13 2007-08-05 05:17:47

Re: The Clean-Slate City-State

#14 2008-02-02 16:17:38

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