Lunar Precursor and Robotic Program (LPRP)

cIclops · 2006-04-09 08:32:21

Finally, the expected lunar lander followon mission to LRO is starting to make news

The mission concept should generally follow the MSFC proposed concept, where a CLV test flight is used to launch the lander, and a throttleable RL-10 engine is used for the descent and landing to best emulate the human landing approach. To the degree possible, the landing should be a verification test of the human lander descent and landing guidance and flight control algorithms, the precision landing and hazard avoidance capability, including navigation and instruments.

RLEP2 homepage - launch no earlier than 2011

SpaceNut · 2006-04-09 19:23:31

Previous articles:

Nasa Decision for lunar robotic exploration missions to come.

NASA Selects Team to Build Lunar Lander

NASA's Deputy Associate Administrator for the Exploration Systems Mission Directorate Doug Cooke today announced the selection of NASA's Marshall Space Flight Center, Huntsville, Ala., and Goddard Space Flight Center, Greenbelt, Md., to lead a team in the development of a lunar lander spacecraft.

This lander is to provide information that will not becoming from the LRO mission of 2008.

The lander is tentatively planned for launch as early as 2010. It will demonstrate the ability for precision landings at targeted locations on the moon; evaluate landing zone environment; and determine if lunar resources can support a sustained human presence.

Reasons for needing lander happen to be to confirm water:

This mission will have as a primary objective to determine whether there is water-ice in the permanently dark areas within craters in the moon's polar regions. The existence of water-ice has important implications in living off the land when we return with human explorers

MSFC to develop lunar probe

NASA has set the lander cost range between $400 million and $750 million, Chitwood said, and the lander tentatively is planned for launch as early as 2010. The project will be managed by Marshall, but the space center will rely on Goddard Space Flight Center, in Greenbelt, Md., to co-develop the lander.
To land on the moon, because there is no atmosphere, you can't just fly down and land," Horack said. "It will take a specially designed engine for that. Marshall's strength is propulsion, and we will rely on that for this project."

So why are we re-inventing the wheel all over again for a lunar lander?

My first thought is to go back to what has worked maily the LM and see where we are with what is known before starting fresh all over again.

NASA Considering Two Options For 2010 Lunar Lander

Of course some of the I want work in my facility has already played out with the primary unit responsible for the LRO shifting to another.

Robotic Lunar Exploration Program is what the LRO is part of. Marshall Space Flight Center in Huntsville, Ala., has primary responsibility for executing the 2010 lander mission, informally dubbed "RLEP 2". With a second lander, RLEP 3, which would launch either in 2012 or 2013. These will come at a cost of about $400 million and $750 million.

We have not even gotten the LRO off the pad and already Nasa is planning for the second Robotic Lunar Exploration Mission (RLEP 2.) January 2011 -- Launch.

SpaceNut · 2006-04-09 19:36:35

Another previous proposal:

Back a page I mentioned that [url=http://www.al.com/news/huntsvilletimes/index.ssf?/base/news/1136196918128980.xml&coll=1]Marshall hopes lunar lander makes return trips
Scientist says probe isn't seen as 'one-shot effort' [/url]

About 10 people at Marshall Space Flight Center and another 40 at NASA sites around the country are developing what NASA engineers believe will be a complex, unmanned lunar lander that will serve as a test run for a manned lunar lander.

But what size should it be?

"One of the interesting concepts we have been considering is whether this should be a smaller version of the proposed lunar lander that will put humans on the moon," he said. "Consideration has to be given that we are taking up resources to place this on the moon, and it's not just one shot. A crew could use it at some later date."

SpaceNut · 2006-05-26 19:36:42

NASA Moves RLEP Program from ARC to MSFC

Short so will post all:

Exploration Systems Mission Directorate (ESMD) Associate Administrator Scott Horowitz has decided to pull the RLEP (Robotic Lunar Exploration Program) program office out of NASA ARC (where it was put less than a year ago) and is moving it to MSFC. It seems that Sen. Shelby (R-AL) and MSFC Center Director Dave King complained loudly about a number of things and wanted to have the program moved to MSFC.
Horowitz is apparently concerned about the initial cost estimates ($1.2 - 1.4 billion) for MSFC's RLEP-2 and has asked that the entire RLEP effort be "reconceived".
Horowitz reportedly has asked for three classes of RLEP missions with cost caps at $100 million, $200 million, and $300 million respectively. Apparently there will be a new round of RLEP proposals requested soon.

SpaceNut · 2006-05-26 19:51:35

Then I find this one on NASA JSC Solicitation: Lunar Lander Concept Studies and I am going what?

Once I found the document it is about the LSAM.
The National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA) Exploration Systems Mission Directorate (ESMD) Constellation Program Office (CxPO) is assessing concepts for lunar landers that will deliver crew and cargo to the surface of the moon late in the next decade.

Still there will be many simularities for any lander designed for the moon only the size will change.

SpaceNut · 2006-05-29 20:22:14

It would be cheaper to send just liquid hydrogen to be mixed with the lunar extracted oxygen (see reference below).

Future plans have Nasa doing more than just taking some real high definition pictures with the LRO. There is talk of serveral moon missions before man even can think about going.

"The space agency plans to take its extraction system to the Moon in 2011 as part of its Robotic Lunar Exploration Program (RLEP)"

One small breath for man

Scientists have paved the way for the first permanently manned base on the Moon by developing a way to 'squeeze' oxygen out of lunar soil.
To extract oxygen from lunar soil, scientists used a lens-like structure to focus sunlight on to it, heating it to 2,500C.
In Nasa's latest tests, a 12ft-wide dish was used to concentrate the sun's rays on to 100g of a substance similar to Moon soil. After a few hours, one fifth of the substance had turned into oxygen.
The soil is kept in a vacuum during the process to help suck out the oxygen.

While I am all for going to the Moon we must be going to stay this time or why bother at all...

cIclops · 2006-11-18 15:42:00

Restrictions on funding (HAC/SAC=House/Senate Appropriations Committee)

Exploration R&T/Robotic Lunar Exploration Program (RLP)
NASA Request: $272.7M
HAC Mark: $252.7M (-$20M)
SAC Mark: $312.7M (+$40M)
The RLP has been renamed the Lunar Precursor and Robotic Program (LPRP). The House reduction would impact the execution of LPRP, an enabling pathfinder for Constellation, charged with global mapping of the lunar surface, finding/surveying safe and optimal landing sites for human exploration, and characterizing lunar resources to support affordable/sustained exploration. LPRP reduces Constellation risk through lunar field tests, demonstration, validation and establishment of systems and surface capabilities. The architecture is being developed concurrently with the overall Agency Lunar Architecture and will execute critical missions prior to the first human landings. As part of this Architecture, NASA is defining a mid-sized lander, and expects to brief Congress by mid-December 2007. International cooperation has the potential to defray NASA's costs for this program...
The House reduction would delay formulation of Medium Lunar Lander project ($20M available in FY 2007), slated for management by MSFC and implementation by the Applied Physics Laboratory. The delay would have a corresponding effect of adding risk to Constellation by jeopardizing critical data expected from LPRP for Lunar Surface Access Module (LSAM) design and landing site selection. Further, the Senate increase of $40M at the expense of other Constellation projects would pose a significant risk to Constellation by jeopardizing critical data expected from LPRP for use in Lunar Surface Access Module (LSAM) design and in landing site selection, impact the gap, and jeopardize the planned schedule for human launch.
NASA's FY 2007 request for LPRP is at an appropriate level to support the Agency Lunar Architecture.

cIclops · 2006-12-05 02:17:01

During the announcement of the Lunar Outpost yesterday, Doug Cooke mentioned that the robotic lander would be used to evalute the base location after 2010. Currently its features and requirements are under study.

RedStreak · 2007-03-19 21:30:23

During the announcement of the Lunar Outpost yesterday, Doug Cooke mentioned that the robotic lander would be used to evalute the base location after 2010.

Well that sums up the whole point of a lunar robotic program - evaluating the site before the humans. The LRO evaluates the Moon, LCROSS the region, and the lander the site - straightforward and gets the job done.

The only way to be more thourough would be multiple landers...but I think that's out of the budget. I think the big debate will be over where to send a single lander...and there's only two locations really: into the light or into the dark - that is either the perpetual sunlit areas where the manned base will likely sit, or the shadowed area where the ice resource exists. The later has obvious importance, but LCROSS if its successful would essential solve the problem for us. Assuming people worry over LSAM's performance then making sure the intended site...for safety...will take prescedence.

cIclops · 2007-03-20 04:05:22

LCROSS is focused on discovering if there is water or hydrocarbons inside the permanently dark craters. This would be extremely important for ISRU.

The robotic lander may still happen if NASA gets fully funded, keep your fingers Lcrossed

RedStreak · 2007-03-21 12:08:53

LCROSS is focused on discovering if there is water or hydrocarbons inside the permanently dark craters. This would be extremely important for ISRU.
The robotic lander may still happen if NASA gets fully funded, keep your fingers Lcrossed

lol on the pun

But if LCROSS is suffessful then water ice will be confirmed which is 99% of the reason for shooting a lander into the dark.

RedStreak · 2007-04-16 10:12:37

Looks like there's some trouble over NASA's lunar lander: http://www.space.com/businesstechnology … onday.html

'Lawmakers' apparently are upset that NASA has deemed the probe unessicary and attempted to scratch it off the budget.

SpaceNut · 2007-04-17 18:57:03

I would say look at the big picture in that you need the data from this for moon landings starting 2018. This means you can delay the expense for a decade and still have plenty of time to send it later.

cIclops · 2007-04-18 05:22:03

Griffin has said this mission is in the "nice to have" category, it won't seriously affect RTTM. Once people are on the surface, there will be oodles of surface exploration.

RedStreak · 2007-04-18 10:17:23

I do have to agree with Griffen. As I'm sure I stated before somewhere the lander is either going straight into the ice or to the targeted landing zone, both with their merits and level of importance.

cIclops · 2008-03-11 05:24:20

Lunar Science program (PDF 2MB) - 27 Feb 2008

• SMD/ESMD initiating an effort to coordinate future lunar landed missions into an International Lunar Network (ILN)
• NASA provides two ILN nodes, launched to the lunar poles (TBD), in 2013/2014
• Will consider a second pair of ILN nodes in 2016/2017
• The ILN is designed to emplace 6-8 stations on the lunar surface.
• Each ILN station would fly a core set of instrument types (e.g., seismic, laser retro-reflector, heat flow) requiring broad geographical distribution on the Moon
• Each ILN station could also include additional instruments as desired by the sponsoring space agency

So maybe there will be some robotic landers before the next explorers arrive.

Also see GRAIL mission

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#1 2006-04-09 08:32:21

Re: Lunar Precursor and Robotic Program (LPRP)

#2 2006-04-09 19:23:31

Re: Lunar Precursor and Robotic Program (LPRP)

#3 2006-04-09 19:36:35

Re: Lunar Precursor and Robotic Program (LPRP)

#4 2006-05-26 19:36:42

Re: Lunar Precursor and Robotic Program (LPRP)

#5 2006-05-26 19:51:35

Re: Lunar Precursor and Robotic Program (LPRP)

#6 2006-05-29 20:22:14

Re: Lunar Precursor and Robotic Program (LPRP)

#7 2006-11-18 15:42:00

Re: Lunar Precursor and Robotic Program (LPRP)

#8 2006-12-05 02:17:01

Re: Lunar Precursor and Robotic Program (LPRP)

#9 2007-03-19 21:30:23

Re: Lunar Precursor and Robotic Program (LPRP)

#10 2007-03-20 04:05:22

Re: Lunar Precursor and Robotic Program (LPRP)

#11 2007-03-21 12:08:53

Re: Lunar Precursor and Robotic Program (LPRP)

#12 2007-04-16 10:12:37

Re: Lunar Precursor and Robotic Program (LPRP)

#13 2007-04-17 18:57:03

Re: Lunar Precursor and Robotic Program (LPRP)

#14 2007-04-18 05:22:03

Re: Lunar Precursor and Robotic Program (LPRP)

#15 2007-04-18 10:17:23

Re: Lunar Precursor and Robotic Program (LPRP)

#16 2008-03-11 05:24:20

Re: Lunar Precursor and Robotic Program (LPRP)

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