A comic about Mars

Ancalagon · 2006-12-12 01:48:01

Hello. My name is John. I’m an artist.

A few of my friends and I are currently in early production of an internet comic. I’ll spare the storyline details, but it takes place on a (somewhat) terraformed Mars. We are placing a strong emphasis on realism in this comic, so I have a couple of rather specific questions to which we would appreciate answers.

First, Atmospheric dust.
In our world, the atmospheric pressure and temperature are at a survivable level. The polar ice-caps have melted (mostly) and water has risen to about half the height shown in Ittiz's rendering. The vast, vast majority of the surface is still un-fertilized and O2 content is low. However, there are many “agro-domes” (rather large greenhouses filled with ferns and the like) scattered around the surface. They constantly pump out oxygen through air vents in the surrounding land. People can survive near these air vents provided there aren’t high winds blowing the fresh air away. But atmospheric dust is still a problem.

As I understand it, dust particles larger than 1μ cannot enter the lungs while particles smaller than 1μ do not cause harm. However, particles just around the size of 1μ can cause serious repertory problems if inhaled for a long period of time (this is what causes black-lung among coal minors.) While its not absolutely necessary, I would like people to be able to walk about in these areas without needing dust-masks. So my question is this:

Would a dust-mask be required on a regular basis or would it only be occasionally needed (eg. Tatoeen?) Also, is there a relatively fast way to lower the dust content of the air without having to fertilize and cultivate the land?

Second, Minerals.
I know that Mars is red because of the iron oxide. This shows the possibility of iron deposits witch could be mined. But what other minerals are (or possibly could be) there? Copper? Gold? The Mars rovers can only (literally) scratch the surface, so much about what is way down there is free game (artistically.) But, any popular theories would be helpful.

Thanks.

idiom · 2006-12-12 02:34:59

If you have large amounts of liquid surface water, then you might have a water cycle. The atmosperic dust is largely a function of rainfall.

In even a short period without rain you will have large dust storms if there is no binding ground coverage.

C M Edwards · 2006-12-12 08:52:06

Second, Minerals.
I know that Mars is red because of the iron oxide. This shows the possibility of iron deposits witch could be mined. But what other minerals are (or possibly could be) there? Copper? Gold? The Mars rovers can only (literally) scratch the surface, so much about what is way down there is free game (artistically.) But, any popular theories would be helpful.

The current theory is that any element available in a naturally occurring ore on earth can be obtained from a naturally occurring ore on Mars. However, because of Mars's geological history, some ores will be rarer or more common than on Earth.

Iron ore, for example, will be everywhere. Mars clearly underwent banded iron formation just like Earth (all the iron in its oceans precipitated out in less than a hundred million years, forming an iron rich layer of rock), but wasn't buried very deeply. The iron content of the surface dust is relatively low grade, but still useable if nothing better is available, and high grade iron ore was literally lying around all over the surface where the Opportunity rover landed. In certain locations on Mars, practically all you need to mine iron is a broom. Certain industrially valuable salts are also lying around for the taking.

You will likely be more interested in the minerals expected to be rare. The current theory is that as the first Martian lakes evaporated and got more and more concentrated, they became acidic. They probably wouldn't have eaten your boots off, but you would not have wanted to wade barefoot in one. All of that acid destroyed some minerals in the soil which are now rare on Mars.

Clays are destroyed by strong acids, and clays are now found only in the mountains of Mars where they escaped submersion in the acidic lakes and souring soil of the lowlands. Clays are an important component of arable soil, and it may be worthwhile to go into those mountains and mine clay for agriculture.

Carbonates, like lime, are destroyed even by the weak acids that find their way into acid rain. They did not survive the acid age of Mars, not even in the mountains. No spectroscopic observations have ever confirmed the presence of carbonate deposits on the surface of Mars. And carbonates are even more fundamental to agriculture than clays. Many essential plant nutrients are most readily absorbed as carbonates, and they are practically the only source of some nutrients in soil agriculture. Even algal and hydroponic agriculture requires carbonates. Carbonates are so vital to agriculture that if they can't be obtained locally then they will have to be manufactured. A limestone mine (or factory) on Mars would be something worth having.

Ancalagon · 2006-12-12 17:00:51

Thanks a lot. That was very helpful. Mars has some fantastic landscapes and I had hoped to be able to draw them with a clear atmosphere. But I guess I'll have to settle for it only being clear after a storm.

Your information about Mars geology was exceptionally helpful, Edwards. You also managed to answer one of my follow-up questions. But I still have another.

Our fictional Mars needs a standard of currency. Like you said, Iron ore is everywhere, so it’s too common to be valued. Limestone is valuable, but only as a consumable. So it wouldn’t make a very good coined currency. I guess I’m just emphasizing a portion of my original question. Could ores such as gold, silver, and/or copper be mined on mars? If so, would they be rare enough to be valued, yet still common enough to be circulated as money?

Again, thank you.

C M Edwards · 2006-12-13 21:12:19

Our fictional Mars needs a standard of currency. Like you said, Iron ore is everywhere, so it’s too common to be valued. Limestone is valuable, but only as a consumable. So it wouldn’t make a very good coined currency. I guess I’m just emphasizing a portion of my original question. Could ores such as gold, silver, and/or copper be mined on mars? If so, would they be rare enough to be valued, yet still common enough to be circulated as money?
Again, thank you.

Gold is unusual in that it can be more common chemically pure than in a chemical compound, but most silver, gold and copper deposits are associated with area that were geologically active during ancient geologic periods. Their source ores all tend to be deposited by magma and the aqueous solutions it drives before it underground, but that can happen under mountains or geysers just as easily as on top of a volcano. Gold, silver, and copper will likely all be found in or near mountainous regions on Mars, just like earth. Carbonate ores like malachite will be rare, but they're not usually important sources on Earth, either.

Honestly, I have no idea what martians might base their monetary system on. It's been years since I've used a silver coin or even seen a gold one. Heavy metals just aren't the basis of our economy any more, and I don't see why Martians would (or would not) go back to them. It seems that everything I do nowadays is based on barter or debit card.

noosfractal · 2006-12-13 21:35:11

Our fictional Mars needs a standard of currency. Like you said, Iron ore is everywhere, so it’s too common to be valued. Limestone is valuable, but only as a consumable. So it wouldn’t make a very good coined currency. I guess I’m just emphasizing a portion of my original question. Could ores such as gold, silver, and/or copper be mined on mars? If so, would they be rare enough to be valued, yet still common enough to be circulated as money?

My understanding is that the composition of Mars' crust is similar to the Earth's on average. So, for example, gold would be just as rare. The only strange thing would be if it were much less accessible or much more accessible. The latter might be more likely because of the deep furrows in the surface of Mars, as well as the lower gravity (easier to bring stuff up).

A couple of ideas about what might be used as currency - fluorine in some form (valuable because you need a lot of it to make fluorocarbons for terraforming), radioactive batteries / power chips (well shielded of course, energy = life), high-tech computer chips (maybe photonic by then - cheap on Earth, one of the few things worth shipping to Mars), blocks of nanotech utility fog (I know, getting a little outre) or universal replicator feedstock (might be high purity or specially formulated like advanced ink jet inks). Or you might just want to use credit cards like CME suggested

Ancalagon · 2006-12-27 14:33:30

Ok. I'm aware that Mars gravity is a third of earths, but how would this effect movement? I remember seeing a thread on this forum once about this very topic, but I can't seem to find it. If you were to step onto Mars right now, would you really "bounce" as much when you move as you would on the moon? Or, if you've been living on mars for some time, would your muscles adjust to the low gravity (atrophied) making activities such as walking around rather normal? I ask this because, stylistically, I would rather not have people bouncing about all the time in the comic.

John Creighton · 2006-12-27 18:11:28

Ok. I'm aware that Mars gravity is a third of earths, but how would this effect movement? I remember seeing a thread on this forum once about this very topic, but I can't seem to find it. If you were to step onto Mars right now, would you really "bounce" as much when you move as you would on the moon? Or, if you've been living on mars for some time, would your muscles adjust to the low gravity (atrophied) making activities such as walking around rather normal? I ask this because, stylistically, I would rather not have people bouncing about all the time in the comic.

I don’t know about bouncing like on the moon but with a third of the gravity you should be able to jump 3 times as high or better if you keep all your earth mussel mass. Of course I have no idea how people will preserver that level of mussel mass.

Rxke · 2006-12-28 08:22:37

Someone studied walking on Mars: www.busoc.be/general/microgravity/walkingonmars.pdf

(pdf warning)

On the moon, due to the low gravity, it isn't even possible to walk normally, you *have* to bounce or run. I scanned the mercifully short article diagonally, and it looks that normal walking would be possible on Mars, though you'd go significantly slower. Going as fast as walking on Earth forces you to run.

Tom Kalbfus · 2006-12-29 11:42:36

It appears that if you want to walk on Mars, you will have to walk slow. I think most astronauts would prefer to jog if they want to get somewhere in a reasonable amount of time, but in a comic book, you don't always have to portray them in mid-stride. In a comic book, you will realistically find your characters running here and running there, if they are engaged in a slow methodical search, they will probably walk. So is this going to be set in the 23rd century? I think at this time bipedal robots may be common enough. I would suggest not to go too overboard with the nanotech, probably nuclear fusion would be harnessed by this time. Communication could be by holographic 3-dimensional displays by this time, screens would be as flat as a piece of paper, and they might even have a sticky back end so they would adhere to walls and things, perhaps even selectively sticky, you'd press a button on the front of the screen and suddenly the display would become unglued from the wall, a minor function of nanotech I think.

RickSmith · 2007-03-03 02:02:26

Our fictional Mars needs a standard of currency. Like you said, Iron ore is everywhere, so it’s too common to be valued. Limestone is valuable, but only as a consumable. So it wouldn’t make a very good coined currency. I guess I’m just emphasizing a portion of my original question. Could ores such as gold, silver, and/or copper be mined on mars? If so, would they be rare enough to be valued, yet still common enough to be circulated as money?
Again, thank you.

Hello all,
I think the following will be in short supply on Mars:

- Skilled labor,

- High tech devices from Earth (likely for a long time after colonization),

- Fluorine (they need it by the mega-tonne for terraforming),

- Energy (a cold world and building infrastructure is energy intensive),

- Anything Earth wants (including strategic metals).

I agree for day to day transactions a credit card is fine. But let us say you are a small, starved state that wants to issue currency for your people. However you have a big debt getting set up and your credit is not great. You might issue coinage backed by claims on Uranium ores or a hoard of metals, etc.

The everyone one uses credit assumption is based on a wide spread or world economy but your fictional Mars may not have that situation. (Having lots of outlaw domes owing money and a bit desperate would likely make a more interesting ficton.)

Warm Regards, Rick.

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Re: A comic about Mars

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