Ares I (CLV) - status

cIclops · 2006-10-04 14:54:01

ATK first stage development contract extended

The contract action maintains the design, development, test and evaluation schedule; expedites the procurement of new nozzle metal hardware and production tooling for propellant casting and nozzle fabrication; and maintains the necessary design and engineering analysis leading to a Systems Requirements Review in December 2006.
The action also provides support for an initial test flight in the spring of 2009 known as Ares I-1. The test flight will use a simulated fifth segment on the first stage motor and a simulated upper stage.

GCNRevenger · 2006-10-04 15:35:11

Wait a second...

If the upper stage is supposed to be "simulated," then how is Ares I-1 supposed to effect roll control? Will it? Does it need to?

SpaceNut · 2006-10-04 21:23:45

NASA Awards ATK Thiokol $35 Million Contract Extension for Work on Orion

NASA previously gave ATK Thiokol of Brigham City, Utah, a contract to develop booster rockets for the Ares I launch vehicle, which will help put the Orion spaceship into orbit. The extension increases the value of the original $28 million contract to a total of $63 million.
The contract extension will speed up work on nozzle metal hardware and maintain design and engineering analysis needed for a systems review in December 2006, according to a release from NASA. The extension also provides for an initial test launch of Ares I in the spring of 2009.

I believe that the first one is expected to be more sensor laden to allow them to find out how much roll control they will need with the launch of the dummy upper stage.

cIclops · 2006-10-05 08:03:34

Wait a second...
If the upper stage is supposed to be "simulated," then how is Ares I-1 supposed to effect roll control? Will it? Does it need to?

Earlier in thread there was a quote from Danny Davis who said the key objectives of the first flight test are:

- Demonstrate ascent flight control system performance with dynamically similar 1st and 2nd stage CLV/CEV vehicle
- Demonstrate nominal 1st and 2nd stage separation and clearances
- Demonstrate 1st Stage motor parachute performance and separation/entry dynamics
- Characterize magnitude of integrated vehicle roll torque due to 1st Stage motor performance
- Demonstrate an operational flow of Ares I through KSC to launch

IIRC roll control is performed by the US, so it will surely be tested later.

cIclops · 2006-10-09 10:55:32

A Flight International article posted today says that two versions of the J-2X will be initially developed

However NASA is developing a 294,000lb (1,308kN) thrust version for the EDS and a second less powerful variant, it’s calling the J-2XD, for Ares I ISS missions. “The turbomachinery will be different between the J-2X and the J-2XD” says NASA Langley Research Center researcher Lawrence Huebner ...

SpaceNut · 2006-10-09 18:40:03

NASA gears up for Ares I-1 flight test

The flight will provide a simulation of the performance of the first stage of the Ares I and a test of the staging sequence. The flight is to be suborbital and will test the effect of the maximum dynamic pressure being exerted on the vehicle. There are five primary objectives for this test flight. They encompass flight control, First Stage-USS separation, First Stage re-entry, launch processing, and First Stage roll torque.
A decision has been made to replace originally planned water ballast on this stage with 20,000 lbs of steel ballast. The first flight, Ares I-1, will be a suborbital test of the booster with an inert fifth SRB segment and a dummy second stage with steel-filled propellant tanks and mock-up engines.
The test flight, originally called ADFT-0 (Ascent Development Flight Test-0), is currently scheduled to take place in April 2009 at a cost of about $300 million.

RedStreak · 2006-10-09 19:28:04

So the focus is primarily on the solid rocket stage one? I also see mention of the abort system for the CEV I believe - together this isn't bad for a first test flight.

What is more hopeful to me is the fact they're saying at least a few components to the test vehicle have been or are being built.

cIclops · 2006-10-09 23:52:00

So the focus is primarily on the solid rocket stage one? I also see mention of the abort system for the CEV I believe - together this isn't bad for a first test flight.
What is more hopeful to me is the fact they're saying at least a few components to the test vehicle have been or are being built.

Yes, the first stage will be ready for testing some time before the Upper Stage (US) with its new J-2X engine and NASA are using their limited budget wisely to get real flight data. The Orion (CEV) launch abort system (LAS) is being built by Orbital and may be ready for testing on the first flight.

There's a photo of the first test flight component here in an earlier article

cIclops · 2006-10-19 00:44:10

NASA TV still frame from yesterday's exploration update on the status of Ares I showing the integration lab for Ares I-1.

cIclops · 2006-10-26 08:42:27

NASA Official Touts Power, Safety Of Ares Launch Systems

NASA Exploration Launch Program Manager Steve Cook says that the shuttle-derived Ares rockets should be both the most capable and safest human space flight vehicles in history.
"It's a much simpler architecture than what we're flying today with the space shuttle orbiter combination that we've got," Cook said during a Space Transportation Association breakfast in Washington on Oct. 24.
The Ares system is being designed to fly with 95 percent availability, he said, using conservative loads assumptions and winds aloft restrictions. "We believe this vehicle will be very robust from a weather standpoint, and will be able to fly the missions when we want to fly them," he said.

publiusr · 2006-10-27 12:35:56

It should be able to clear the coast in a hurry--and doesn't have the disposal issues Delta IV has.

And no--that isn't something ATK made up as a selling point.

cIclops · 2006-11-07 06:46:55

Current US test dates from draft J-2X document (released November 3, 2006)

Development Test - January 2009
Main Propulsion Test Article (MPTA) - October 2009
Verification Test - October 2010
Flight Test 1 - January 2011
Flight Test 2 - April 2011
Flight Test 3 - June 2011
Flight Test 4 - August 2011

Also available: background technical details of the US

Grypd · 2006-11-07 07:42:48

There are plans for a novel means to escape the launch gantry for the crew and technicians. This is to use a rollercoaster.

KSC Safety Roller Coaster

Mars_B4_Moon · 2006-11-12 05:51:09

NASA-watch reports its in big trouble

Grypd · 2006-11-12 08:48:03

There seems to be a problem with the Ares 1. It is underpowered by about a metric ton.

NASA Encounters Problems With Ares 1 Launch Vehicle Design

Im sure that a fix can be found otherwise there has to be major changes to the CEV.

GCNRevenger · 2006-11-12 17:30:15

If this is true, it is a turn for the worse, though not nessesarrily fatal. One tonne can probably be worked around, but not any more than that. It is distressing though that it will be cut so close, with so little margin for error. Perhaps it is unfortunately time to start shopping for alternatives. The "Direct" plan for instance.

Commodore · 2006-11-12 19:47:26

It might just mean rethinking the 1.5 launches plan.

A neutered Stick should still be able to get the CEV to LEO. From there we still have a multitude of options.

SpaceNut · 2006-11-12 21:57:54

Back as far as 7/22 we knew that the clv was under powered for the max lift of 25 Mt that was desired and that NASA makes major design changes to CEV was posted to indicate the efforts to save weight so that the 5 segment would be able to lift what we had a desire to do. It was already well known that a 4 segment would not do especially when it was also to used on the CaLV. This happened back in May as noted in The VSE Booster Switch

A little later the efforts to boost the J2 engines output was also put into the mix.

GCNRevenger · 2006-11-12 22:23:44

It might just mean rethinking the 1.5 launches plan.
A neutered Stick should still be able to get the CEV to LEO. From there we still have a multitude of options.

No, since this LEO-only CEV wouldn't have fuel for the return trip from Lunar orbit. There would be no point in building TheStick then, too much of the Ares-V Lunar cargo mass would be compromised to provide this return fuel instead. It would also mean the loss of a big safety feature, the ability for direct abort to Earth without the aid of another spacecraft.

Again what really concerns me is not so much one tonne give or take, but that NASA is going down the path of cutting everything too close, just as they did with Shuttle.

Hopefully the "J-2X Mark-II" will fix this issue before Lunar missions start, since the CEV need not carry a full tank of fuel for ISS trips. This is stacking promises on top of speculation though, and makes me wary.

The Direct option would skip all this mess, but it would have the problem of needing a new super RS-68 engine and it would need man-rating. And what to do about the Ares-I contracts already handed out?

SpaceNut · 2006-11-14 11:12:55

NASA Internal Memo From Constellation Program Manager Jeff Hanley

cIclops · 2006-11-14 15:39:42

NASA Internal Memo From Constellation Program Manager Jeff Hanley

Superb link SpaceNut! What a shame that Hanley had to waste time responding to the <censored> guys over at NSF, once again they prove that their ripped documents and rumors that they sell on the L2 forum are bunk. Let's hear them apologize! How will they repair the damage done to the project caused by the misinformation that has already spread through the media?

Here's a part of Hanley's comment:

In summary, many who carp from the sidelines do not seem to understand the systems engineering process. They instead want to sensationalize any issue to whatever end or preferred outcome they wish. So be it, that is the world we live in.
So where are we today, specifically on the issue of what the launch vehicle can lift and what the Orion is allowed to weigh?
First, the latest set of analyses indicate that the Ares I can lift 58 klbm to the program-specified injection point of -30 x 100 nmi. This number PROTECTS worst case propulsion performance on the first and second stage.
This compares favorably to the requirement that we specified for the Ares I to inject 52.1 klbm.
The Orion team is working to a control mass of NGT 48.4 klbm. They in turn carry margin within that allocation ranging between approximately 10-20% for mass growth as the design process proceeds.
Further, we have been fairly conservative on the amount of propellant we will load in the Orion Service Module for the lunar missions.

BTW 58 klbm is 26.3 mT

GCNRevenger · 2006-11-14 22:07:37

People have been complaining about the high price tag of VSE etc, but I think that they have just become accustom to the inaccurate, psuedo-fraudulent under-costing to date.

I am glad that NASA appears to be taking this same more honest, conservative route with launch vehicle mass.

SpaceNut · 2006-11-15 06:59:36

Now I knew that the term nmi was nautical mile but what is klbm? Is this 1000 pounds meter, if not would you point me to a reference cIclops or GCNRevenger that may benefit others as well.
As well mT could be metric ton or 1000 kg which is more than 2000 lbs but less than a Ton which is 2400 lbs.

cIclops · 2006-11-15 07:23:44

Now I knew that the term nmi was nautical mile but what is klbm? Is this 1000 pounds meter, if not would you point me to a reference cIclops or GCNRevenger that may benefit others as well.
As well mT could be metric ton or 1000 kg which is more than 2000 lbs but less than a Ton which is 2400 lbs.

1000 lbs *mass* - as opposed to weight which varies of course depending on the gravity field

Yes mT (also written as MT) means metric Ton = 1000 kg = 2205 lbs

SpaceNut · 2006-11-15 22:26:28

Current ISS location status: Can the CLV get there and to higher orbits that will be in the offering once it is completted...

ISS Orbit (as of this morning, 7:26am EDT [= epoch]):

Mean altitude -- 340.0 km
Apogee height -- 348.8 km
Perigee height -- 331.2 km
Period -- 91.33 min.
Inclination (to Equator) -- 51.64 deg
Eccentricity -- 0.0013112
Solar Beta Angle -- 23.8 deg (magnitude increasing)
Orbits per 24-hr. day -- 15.77
Mean altitude loss in last 24 hours -- 91 m
Revolutions since FGB/Zarya launch (Nov. 98) -- 45071

New Mars Forums

Announcement

#201 2006-10-04 14:54:01

Re: Ares I (CLV) - status

#202 2006-10-04 15:35:11

Re: Ares I (CLV) - status

#203 2006-10-04 21:23:45

Re: Ares I (CLV) - status

#204 2006-10-05 08:03:34

Re: Ares I (CLV) - status

#205 2006-10-09 10:55:32

Re: Ares I (CLV) - status

#206 2006-10-09 18:40:03

Re: Ares I (CLV) - status

#207 2006-10-09 19:28:04

Re: Ares I (CLV) - status

#208 2006-10-09 23:52:00

Re: Ares I (CLV) - status

#209 2006-10-19 00:44:10

Re: Ares I (CLV) - status

#210 2006-10-26 08:42:27

Re: Ares I (CLV) - status

#211 2006-10-27 12:35:56

Re: Ares I (CLV) - status

#212 2006-11-07 06:46:55

Re: Ares I (CLV) - status

#213 2006-11-07 07:42:48

Re: Ares I (CLV) - status

#214 2006-11-12 05:51:09

Re: Ares I (CLV) - status

#215 2006-11-12 08:48:03

Re: Ares I (CLV) - status

#216 2006-11-12 17:30:15

Re: Ares I (CLV) - status

#217 2006-11-12 19:47:26

Re: Ares I (CLV) - status

#218 2006-11-12 21:57:54

Re: Ares I (CLV) - status

#219 2006-11-12 22:23:44

Re: Ares I (CLV) - status

#220 2006-11-14 11:12:55

Re: Ares I (CLV) - status

#221 2006-11-14 15:39:42

Re: Ares I (CLV) - status

#222 2006-11-14 22:07:37

Re: Ares I (CLV) - status

#223 2006-11-15 06:59:36

Re: Ares I (CLV) - status

#224 2006-11-15 07:23:44

Re: Ares I (CLV) - status

#225 2006-11-15 22:26:28

Re: Ares I (CLV) - status

Board footer