COTS - status

GCNRevenger · 2006-10-20 18:20:42

I.E. Griffin tries to pump money into withering AltSpace companies in return for meaningless stuff.

SpaceNut · 2006-10-20 20:25:04

Or B he is subcontracting out what costs his departments running there own suborbital plane a lot more and is redirecting it back into what is eating his lunch (shuttle)...

GCNRevenger · 2006-10-20 21:37:08

What suborbital space plane? The AltSpacers' are the only ones fooling with such a worthless contraption. I mean, what in the heck could Griffin use it for? I mean come on, if they are opening the thing up for tourists, then what good is it as an "astronaut validation tool" or whatever. And how usefull is a suborbital flight for testing purposes? You are only in space a few minutes tops. And, of course, the same justifications for knee-capping NASA for the last thrity years is to do various unnammed and undefined "experiments."

Griffin's investment is just a subsidy, money down the drain, spent to make NASA look far-sighted and to appease the new Bush NASA directive to support AltSpace without giving them anything important to do. The air mail comparison is asinine, air mail planes actually went places, suborbital spaceplanes go no place at all.

cIclops · 2006-10-21 03:15:13

What suborbital space plane? The AltSpacers' are the only ones fooling with such a worthless contraption. I mean, what in the heck could Griffin use it for? I mean come on, if they are opening the thing up for tourists, then what good is it as an "astronaut validation tool" or whatever. And how usefull is a suborbital flight for testing purposes? You are only in space a few minutes tops. And, of course, the same justifications for knee-capping NASA for the last thrity years is to do various unnammed and undefined "experiments."
Griffin's investment is just a subsidy, money down the drain, spent to make NASA look far-sighted and to appease the new Bush NASA directive to support AltSpace without giving them anything important to do. The air mail comparison is asinine, air mail planes actually went places, suborbital spaceplanes go no place at all.

What in the heck could Griffin use a suborbital spacer plane for? Microgravity. NASA use Zero-G Corporation for research flights already and are looking to replace their microgravity research aircraft at Johnson Space Center. A suborbital flight gives 4 minutes of microgravity compared with 30 seconds in an aeroplane. Astronauts fly their T-38s and microgravity aircraft to keep proficient, buying commercial services for this makes a lot of sense.

Suborbital flights go nowhere? They go to the edge of space, that just happens to be in another direction other than horizontal

cIclops · 2006-10-27 01:23:54

Kistler Aerospace have little to say about the status or schedule of their K-1 fully reusable launcher. Now with $207m of COTS funding from NASA they have made a deal with Lockheed Martin. Accoring to LM RpK "will contract with Michoud Operations for fabrication and assembly of the vehicle's propellant tanks, as well as final assembly and integration of the stages for the K-1 launch vehicle". Maybe this thing will fly!

publiusr · 2006-10-27 13:17:32

Griffin is forced into COTS to keep the mouths of the alt.spacers shut.

That or a five cent sucker--whichever is cheaper.

He is having to do a little of Goldin's too-thin-spreading just to get support.

cIclops · 2006-10-27 13:55:35

Griffin is forced into COTS to keep the mouths of the alt.spacers shut.

Nah, who cares about what they say ... what influence do alt.spacers have compared with Boeing/LM/NG?

It makes more sense to believe:

1. Griffin wants cheap access and competition for launch, he also want a safe reliable crew launcher and a BFR. He's said several times if COTS can supply cheaper better services he will contract them.

2. Griffin got the funding from Congress to stimulate the free market, small businesses etc etc - that's how the $500m got in the budget.

cIclops · 2006-10-28 05:16:34

Powerpoint presentations at the recent FAA COMSTAC (Commercial Space Transportation Advisory Committee) meeting:

SpaceX (18MB)

RpK (30MB)

cIclops · 2006-10-30 09:27:52

New Space review article by Jeff Foust describing the RpK and SpaceX proposals: COTS winners start showing their hands

As part of the COTS demonstration program, SpaceX will carry out three missions to prove to NASA that it can safely and successfully carry cargo to and from the ISS. The first demo flight, currently scheduled for the third quarter of 2008, is what Hughes calls a “core functionality” flight, designed to test the key subsystems of the Dragon spacecraft, including entry, descent, and landing.
...
RpK has a similar demonstration flight schedule as SpaceX, with a risk reduction flight in late 2008 followed by two demonstration flights in the first half of 2009. Trafton didn’t provide many specifics about those flights, other than to say that only the last two flights would be funded by NASA. The initial risk reduction flight would be paid for exclusively by RpK—almost.

cIclops · 2006-11-01 11:17:16

MDA Enters Strategic Alliance With Rocketplane Kistler

MDA’s scope includes the “Last Mile Solution”, which supports rendezvous and docking of Rocketplane Kistler's orbital vehicle K1 with the International Space Station, as well as the development and sustenance of the un-pressurized cargo subsystems.

cIclops · 2006-11-08 11:36:38

Rocketplane Kistler and ATK Announce Agreement for K-1

ATK will provide launch vehicle development, assembly, integration and test of the launch system, and will conduct launch and landing site development and launch vehicle preparation for the K-1. ATK will also develop and produce critical composite structures and subsystems for the pressurized and unpressurized K-1 cargo modules, and conduct vehicle recovery and refurbishment.

SpaceNut · 2006-11-08 21:14:38

Here is another source ATK Joins Team Building Rocketplane Kistler’s K-1 Rocket

ATK held a similar supporting role on Andrews COTS team, which was a finalist for NASA funding but did not make the final cut.
While ATK’s initial cash investment is less than the $10 million Orbital Sciences had pledged to bring to the table,
Dittemore said ATK also has agreed to make an initial cash investment of $2.5 million in Rocketplane Kistler to help finance the restart of the K-1 program.
Rocketplane Kistler has exceeded its first round financing goals by 10 percent, raising over $45 million since NASA awarded the company $207 million in September under the COTS program.

cIclops · 2006-12-04 09:19:43

Chuck Lauer, co-founder and Vice president of Business Development for Rocketplane Kistler Inc, talks about RpK on the latest space show. Lauer sounded very pleased about COTS and said that the first flights of K-1 will be in late 2008 from Woomera, Australia. These flights will test the flyback booster and the orbital vehicle's capability to land accurately before flights can begin from the US. He said NASA are pressing to advance crew capability to 2010 from the currently planned 2012.

Lauer starts by describing the XP rocket plane, the first test flight has slipped to early 2008. He added that hypersonic point to point passenger and cargo services using the global airport infrastructure may be possible.

SpaceNut · 2006-12-06 22:35:58

Next Falcon 1 Launch Could Slip to February

In parallel to preparing for its next Falcon 1 launch, SpaceX also is getting ready for a January preliminary design review for Dragon, a ballistic capsule the company is developing with $278 million in assistance from NASA’s Commercial Orbital Transportation Services (COTS) demonstration program.

Trial of engines in 2007 while launch is in 2008...

publiusr · 2006-12-08 15:46:08

Here is another source ATK Joins Team Building Rocketplane Kistler’s K-1 Rocket
ATK held a similar supporting role on Andrews COTS team, which was a finalist for NASA funding but did not make the final cut.
While ATK’s initial cash investment is less than the $10 million Orbital Sciences had pledged to bring to the table,
Dittemore said ATK also has agreed to make an initial cash investment of $2.5 million in Rocketplane Kistler to help finance the restart of the K-1 program.
Rocketplane Kistler has exceeded its first round financing goals by 10 percent, raising over $45 million since NASA awarded the company $207 million in September under the COTS program.

Interesting.

cIclops · 2006-12-11 11:03:40

Presentation charts from the 2nd Exploration conference are now online.

See PDF charts from Elon Musk, SpaceX, and Rocketplane Kistler.

SpaceNut · 2006-12-11 21:48:01

NASA strategy for permanent Moon base throws up commercial opportunities for world's aerospace companies. All systems go for profit, Houston Boeing, Alcatel Alenia Space, Energia and Mitsubishi are members of this loose alliance.

The third meeting of the new Space Commerce Roundtable was taking place as the US space agency unveiled its Global Exploration Strategy (GES) on 4 December at the second NASA/American Institute of Aeronautics & Astronautics space exploration conference in Houston, Texas.

Additional ISS Cargo Flights Under COTS Program

NASA is soliciting information from potential sources that can provide:
1.) A single flight in 2009 for the delivery of 2,000 kilograms of passive dry cargo to ISS with equivalent volume of trash or waste disposal removed from the complex. Dock time shall be not less than 30 days with an operational readiness date in April 2009.
2.) Cargo Characteristics: - Unpowered, pressurized cargo and trash/waste. Average cargo density - 230 kg/m3 for launch cargo - 200 kg/m3 for trash/waste items at full capacity.
3.) Launch cargo may include but is not limited to: - food containers - crew provisions and crew health care packed in half cargo transfer bags (CTBs) - logistics spares (all items no larger than the Russian Progress cargo ship hatch) - and other CTB packed cargo.
4.) Late Access Cargo: provide late access/stowage for 10 percent of capability at launch minus four days. - trash/waste items may include but is not limited to: - trash packing foam (zotek, minicell or pyrell) - consumable logistics items, and waste consumables.

cIclops · 2006-12-20 12:36:00

Rocketplane Kistler's K-1 Aerospace Vehicle Takes-Off With UGS PLM Technology

UGS is a leading global provider of product lifecycle management (PLM) software and services ...

SpaceNut · 2006-12-21 21:20:30

Complaint About COTS Awards Dismissed

Jones claimed, in a telephone interview, he got assurances from NASA at meetings in Washington and Houston that his company could use the SRBs but three days before the bid was due, Jones said he received a copy of a NASA e-mail dated Feb. 8 from shuttle program manager Wayne Hale to other agency employees instructing them not to honor requests from contractors seeking cost estimates for purposes of bidding COTS.
“Recently many elements of the Space Shuttle Program at various centers have been bombarded with requests to provide cost estimates for a variety of services, equipment, and facilities currently used by the Space Shuttle Program. All of these requests seem to be very poorly defined,” Hale wrote in the Feb. 8 e-mail.
Hale said the space shuttle program had “no resources to devote to answering cost estimating questions from the [COTS] Program or contractors seeking work via the [COTS] program … “For these reasons, I am directing all [space shuttle program]personnel at all centers NOT to honor requests for cost estimation from the [COTS] program or any of the prospective contractors that are pursuing [COTS] work until further notice.”

They should have sent there requests for information to the U.S. Government Accountability Office under the freedom of information act.

cIclops · 2007-02-02 01:37:33

Commercial Space Transportation Capabilities Agreements Signed - 1 Feb 2007

On Wednesday, NASA agreed to cooperate with PlanetSpace Inc. of Chicago and Transformational Space Corp. (t/Space) of Reston, Va., to facilitate the commercialization of low-Earth orbit as they develop capabilities to transport goods and people to orbital destinations.
The non-reimbursable Space Act agreements signed by NASA and the two companies involve no agency funding to the companies. The pacts establish milestones and objective criteria by which the companies can gauge their own progress, as part of the agency's Commercial Crew and Cargo Program.
Under the agreements, NASA will share information that will help the companies understand projected requirements for space station crew and cargo transportation launch vehicles, spacecraft and NASA human rating criteria.
PlanetSpace and t/Space will work to develop and demonstrate the vehicles, systems and operations needed to transport crews and cargo to and from a low-Earth orbit destination. NASA will acknowledge the companies' milestone accomplishments.

SpaceNut · 2007-02-02 07:07:28

NASA agrees to advise spaceship ventures; Agency to work with PlanetSpace, t/Space, but will provide no cash
under the newly announced agreements, but they would be entitled to the agency's feedback — an arrangement that could help keep them in the running for contracts to resupply the international space station after the space shuttles are retired in 2010.

T/Space already has conducted the initial phases of testing for its Crew Transfer Vehicle, or CXV, an air-launched, piloted craft that is based on the 1960s-era design for the return capsules from U.S. Corona satellites.
Unmanned prototypes of the CXV were built under the terms of an earlier $6 million NASA contract, and in 2005, the company subjected the CXV to aerial drop tests to study its aerodynamics and safety.

NASA signs agreement with t/Space

In 2006, t/Space was one of six finalists in NASA's Commercial Orbital Transportation Services competition for development funding, out a field of more than 20 companies. The company proposed a three-person spacecraft that will carry 2,000 lbs. of cargo to the ISS, or to commercial space habitats now under development. t/Space plans an innovative approach in which its spacecraft and the accompanying booster will be released from a carrier aircraft over ocean to enhance safety, increase responsiveness and reduce costs. Development is expected to culminate with a crewed flight to orbit in late 2010.

cIclops · 2007-02-02 11:46:34

t/space press release 2 Feb 2007

In 2006, t/Space was one of six finalists in NASA's Commercial Orbital Transportation Services competition for development funding, out a field of more than 20 companies. The company proposed a three-person spacecraft that will carry 2,000 lbs. of cargo to the ISS, or to commercial space habitats now under development. t/Space plans an innovative approach in which its spacecraft and the accompanying booster will be released from a carrier aircraft over ocean to enhance safety, increase responsiveness and reduce costs. Development is expected to culminate with a crewed flight to orbit in late 2010.

Planetspace press release 1 Feb 2007

The PlanetSpace NOVA booster is a design based on the highly successful Soyuz Russian booster that supplies crew and cargo to the ISS today. By using the
PlanetSpace Alchemy engine and our Silver Dart, which is a lifting body based on the FDL-7 / X-24b which has a glide range of over 25,000 miles (one earth circumference). Test launches of system components can be expected early as development of these systems are already ongoing

SpaceNut · 2007-02-09 22:51:35

I think we all have been waiting to here about progress by the remaining teams.
SpaceX versus RpK COTS
Lots of tables for milestones to payout by nasa for completion of stage.

SPACE ACT AGREEMENT BETWEEN NATIONAL AERONAUTICS AND SPACE ADMINISTRATION; AND KISTLER AEROSPACE CORPORATION AND ROCKETPLANE LIMITED, INC. FOR COMMERCIAL ORBITAL TRANSPORTATION SERVICES DEMONSTRATION (COTS)

This pdf document posted at Johnson Space Center contains the Space Act agreements between NASA and Rocketplane Kistler (page 1) and between NASA and SpaceX (page 54). It includes the terms of the contracts (e.g. intellectual property rights), summaries of the proposals, and a list of the milestones for each company and how much each will be paid as it achieves each milestone.

cIclops · 2007-02-18 04:03:39

NASA Commercial Space Partners Complete Milestones - 16 Feb 2007

HOUSTON - Two companies that are receiving NASA Commercial Orbital Transportation Services funds achieved significant milestones this month in their efforts to develop and demonstrate space cargo launch and delivery systems.
Space Exploration Technologies (SpaceX) completed a preliminary design review for its first orbital demonstration mission. Rocketplane Kistler completed a system requirements review for its cargo services system. The two companies want to offer commercial delivery services for cargo, and possibly crews, to the International Space Station in the future. In August 2006, NASA and the companies signed Space Act Agreements that established a series of milestones and criteria for assessing progress toward their individual goals.
"These milestones demonstrate genuine progress toward a new way of doing business for NASA and pave the way for the commercial purchase of transportation services needed to maintain the International Space Station," said Alan Lindenmoyer, manager of the Commercial Crew and Cargo Program Office at NASA's Johnson Space Center, Houston. "If these companies can continue this rapid pace, the first demonstration launches are right around the corner."
On Feb. 8 SpaceX, of El Segundo, Calif., received NASA approval of a preliminary design review for the first orbital demonstration of its Falcon 9 rocket and Dragon reusable spacecraft. That flight, planned for September 2008, will be the first of three outlined in NASA's agreement with SpaceX. The company completed a project management review for the mission in September 2006 and a system requirements review in November 2006. SpaceX delivered its preliminary design review data to NASA Jan. 22. The critical design review is set for this summer.
On Feb. 6, Rocketplane Kistler of Oklahoma City established the requirements for interfaces between its two-stage K-1 reusable cargo transportation system and the International Space Station. The requirements review was the third of numerous milestones NASA will use to measure the company's progress toward a full demonstration of its launch capability. Both the first and second stages completed critical design reviews before Rocketplane Kistler joined the Commercial Orbital Transportation Services Project. Those vehicle components are being transported to NASA's Michoud Assembly Facility in New Orleans to begin the assembly phase.
Rocketplane Kistler achieved its first two program milestones, completion of a program implementation plan and an initial round of private financing, in September and November 2006, respectively. Preliminary and critical design reviews of a new cargo module are planned later this year.

cIclops · 2007-02-21 06:22:33

Timetable from the COTS section ESMD-41 of the NASA 2008 budget request

Schedule Commitments:

Aug 2007 SpaceX - Demo 1 System Critical Design Review (CDR)
Aug 2007 RpK - Pressurized Cargo Module (PCM) CDR
Sep 2007 RpK - Unpressurized Cargo Module (UCM) CDR
Oct 2007 RpK - ISS Test Readiness Review (TRR)

Feb 2008 SpaceX - Demo 1 Readiness Review (RR)
Sep 2008 SpaceX - Demo 1 Mission
Nov 2008 RpK - Risk Reduction Flight

Jan 2009 RpK - 1st Demo Flight with Pressurized Cargo
Mar 2009 RpK - 2nd Demo Flight with Unpressurized Cargo
Jun 2009 SpaceX - Demo 2 Mission
Sep 2009 SpaceX - Demo 3 Mission

New Mars Forums

Announcement

#26 2006-10-20 18:20:42

Re: COTS - status

#27 2006-10-20 20:25:04

Re: COTS - status

#28 2006-10-20 21:37:08

Re: COTS - status

#29 2006-10-21 03:15:13

Re: COTS - status

#30 2006-10-27 01:23:54

Re: COTS - status

#31 2006-10-27 13:17:32

Re: COTS - status

#32 2006-10-27 13:55:35

Re: COTS - status

#33 2006-10-28 05:16:34

Re: COTS - status

#34 2006-10-30 09:27:52

Re: COTS - status

#35 2006-11-01 11:17:16

Re: COTS - status

#36 2006-11-08 11:36:38

Re: COTS - status

#37 2006-11-08 21:14:38

Re: COTS - status

#38 2006-12-04 09:19:43

Re: COTS - status

#39 2006-12-06 22:35:58

Re: COTS - status

#40 2006-12-08 15:46:08

Re: COTS - status

#41 2006-12-11 11:03:40

Re: COTS - status

#42 2006-12-11 21:48:01

Re: COTS - status

#43 2006-12-20 12:36:00

Re: COTS - status

#44 2006-12-21 21:20:30

Re: COTS - status

#45 2007-02-02 01:37:33

Re: COTS - status

#46 2007-02-02 07:07:28

Re: COTS - status

#47 2007-02-02 11:46:34

Re: COTS - status

#48 2007-02-09 22:51:35

Re: COTS - status

#49 2007-02-18 04:03:39

Re: COTS - status

#50 2007-02-21 06:22:33

Re: COTS - status

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