New Mars Forums

nickname

Banned

From: Ontario, Canada

Registered: 2006-05-15

Posts: 354

Re: The Death of Mars Theory

Belinda,

I wouldn't go as far as to say all kb binary objects are the product of capture only.

Some binary objects in the kb are probably the result of collision also.
In fact Pluto charon and its second moon make even the collision scenario tough to explain.
Two moons circling a small planet is tough to explain with any one mechanism.

In a belt of objects traveling at similar speeds it is much easier for one body to capture another and impacts a regular occurrence.

If we remove all the red giant stars, tiny red stars, brown dwarfs, white dwarfs, hot blue stars, radiation spewing stars, multiple stars , stars younger than 1 billion years and unstable yellow stars, we are left with maybe 1 in 50 to 1 in 100 pretty stable yellow stars with good habitable zones.

I personally believe that if an earth like place exists its 100% chance of life, bacteria and virus.
I also believe that 99.99% of those earth 2s 3s etc will be just that, bacteria and virus and slime, even the lucky ones with nice moons.
I also believe that with all the chance happenings for earth/moon and the range of stars in our galaxy only a handful of other earths will exist in each galaxy, and only a handful of intelligent life forms will exist at one time in all the universe.

LOL as kirk says (no intelligent life here...beam me up scottie)

Agreed, Earth 2 was good and bad, kind of like earth 1.

Actually the Lava one was for SRAM, but you did an excellent job of explaining how lava gets to the surface past the crust.

Makes sense to me that if the earth is mostly molten then the heaviest objects Led Gold Iron etc migrate to the center to form a molten core, if not your Lava explanation might need a total rework.

---

Science facts are only as good as knowledge.
Knowledge is only as good as the facts.
New knowledge is only as good as the ones that don't respect the first two.

SRAM

Banned

From: Flawda USA

Registered: 2006-08-10

Posts: 40

Re: The Death of Mars Theory

SRAM,

Lava?
Where does that come from?

>>>>>>><<<<<<<

I do not pretend to have all of the answers or possess all knowledge.

I am intrigued by the theories postulated here.

  >>>   http://www.hollowplanets.com/journal/Seismic01.asp

Before you snort at the theory of  "Semi Hollow Planetary Formation",
please review your former Earth Scientist theories of a "FLAT EARTH"
  and "Blood Letting" by your so called  "Experts of  Yesteryear"

>>>>>>><<<<<<<

Secondarily is the theory of energy points of focus in the upper layers of the Earth.

>>>>>>>  http://www.mufor.org/plananom.htm

>>>   http://www.divinecosmos.com/index.php?o … &Itemid=36

>>>>>>><<<<<<<

You will now classify me with the far side.

  I  would rather dwell there than with your so esteemed and worthy "scientist"
  who so dearly clung to their FLAT EARTH and BLOODLETTING until truer
  wisdom prevailed.

   SRAM   >>>>  ( backwards spell)

---

[b]JESUS IS GOD[/b]

SRAM

Banned

From: Flawda USA

Registered: 2006-08-10

Posts: 40

Re: The Death of Mars Theory

Belinda,

Actually the Lava one was for SRAM, but you did an excellent job of explaining how lava gets to the surface past the crust.

Makes sense to me that if the earth is mostly molten then the heaviest objects Led Gold Iron etc migrate to the center to form a molten core, if not your Lava explanation might need a total rework.

>>>>>>><<<<<<<

In reality, as you move toward the CENTER of a planet  GRAVITY DECREASES,
because the mass attraction becomes centroid.

If there  was a hollow center YOU WOULD BE WEIGHTLESS AND FLOAT.

  SRAM

---

[b]JESUS IS GOD[/b]

SRAM

Banned

From: Flawda USA

Registered: 2006-08-10

Posts: 40

Re: The Death of Mars Theory

Nickname:

Other than Pluto Charon system the rest is all captured items.

Define 'intelligence'.

>>>>>>><<<<<<

  The rarest of all  characteristics in ALL of GOD's  CREATION.

   sraM

---

[b]JESUS IS GOD[/b]

Offline

idiom

Member

From: New Zealand

Registered: 2004-04-21

Posts: 312

Re: The Death of Mars Theory

(Come on someone out there, - put me right on my physics! Why isn't the Earth/ Moon a binary system?)

The center of gravity of the combined bodies is below the surface of the Earth, thus the moon is a satellite. If it was above the surface the masses would be close enough to be a 'true' binary system.

Well that the explanation of why Charon is now a planet and a binary and the moon is not...

---

Come on to the Future

idiom

Member

From: New Zealand

Registered: 2004-04-21

Posts: 312

Re: The Death of Mars Theory

SRAM:

That site does not address the problems of centripetal stress, or large asteroid strikes among other things. Unless they were attempting to postulate a theory of gravity where gravity tries to move everything into spheres... But then why is the Sun at the center of the system. The Hollow Planets model would be more plausible if there was nothing at the center of the solar system.

---

Come on to the Future

Belinda

Member

From: UK

Registered: 2004-12-03

Posts: 31

Re: The Death of Mars Theory

Idiom:

The center of gravity of the combined bodies is below the surface of the Earth, thus the moon is a satellite. If it was above the surface the masses would be close enough to be a 'true' binary system.

So - 2 equal-enough-sized objects orbiting an external centre of gravity = yes it is a binary system, & 1 large object and 1 small orbiting centre of gravity within large object = no it isn't? 

Nickname:

Makes sense to me that if the earth is mostly molten then the heaviest objects Led Gold Iron etc migrate to the center to form a molten core, if not your Lava explanation might need a total rework.

I think the idea is, the 'proto Earth' was wholly molten as it accreted (& possibly re-melted when something collided with it/ leading to the formation of present-size Earth and the Moon) and differentiated and it cooled from the surface inwards. & this is supposed to be the point about Mars; Mars, being smaller, cooled quicker hence lithosphere thick enough to support the weight of Olympus Mons etc.

SRAM:

Re. -

http://www.divinecosmos.com/index.php?o … &Itemid=36

>>>>>>><<<<<<<

You will now classify me with the far side.

I would rather dwell there than with your so esteemed and worthy "scientist"
who so dearly clung to their FLAT EARTH and BLOODLETTING until truer
wisdom prevailed.

No, why should any of us be classified? But I would have thought 'evidence of intelligent design' such as very large reliefs of human faces in the landscape of Mars ought to be able to stand up to evidential challenge if it's got anything going for it.

Isn't that the whole point about 'flat earth'; it didn't.

SRAM

Banned

From: Flawda USA

Registered: 2006-08-10

Posts: 40

Re: The Death of Mars Theory

SRAM:

That site does not address the problems of centripetal stress, or large asteroid strikes among other things. Unless they were attempting to postulate a theory of gravity where gravity tries to move everything into spheres... But then why is the Sun at the center of the system. The Hollow Planets model would be more plausible if there was nothing at the center of the solar system.

  >>>>>>><<<<<<<

It cannot  be a solar system if there is no centroid sun.

( Are there any systems without a centroid sun(s) ? )

---

[b]JESUS IS GOD[/b]

SRAM

Banned

From: Flawda USA

Registered: 2006-08-10

Posts: 40

Re: The Death of Mars Theory

Nickname:

Makes sense to me that if the earth is mostly molten then the heaviest objects Led Gold Iron etc migrate to the center to form a molten core, if not your Lava explanation might need a total rework.

I think the idea is, the 'proto Earth' was wholly molten as it accreted (& possibly re-melted when something collided with it/ leading to the formation of present-size Earth and the Moon) and differentiated and it cooled from the surface inwards. & this is supposed to be the point about Mars; Mars, being smaller, cooled quicker hence lithosphere thick enough to support the weight of Olympus Mons etc.

The idea that all planetary formation is from some blob of  the SUN being flung off
may not be the only explanation.

Consider also the condensation of large volumes of gas and dust  spinning down
to form  planets which are NOT SOLID , but do have a substantial mass.

SRAM:

Re. -

http://www.divinecosmos.com/index.php?o … &Itemid=36

>>>>>>><<<<<<<

You will now classify me with the far side.

I would rather dwell there than with your so esteemed and worthy "scientist"
who so dearly clung to their FLAT EARTH and BLOODLETTING until truer
wisdom prevailed.

No, why should any of us be classified? But I would have thought 'evidence of intelligent design' such as very large reliefs of human faces in the landscape of Mars ought to be able to stand up to evidential challenge if it's got anything going for it.

Isn't that the whole point about 'flat earth'; it didn't.

Exactly.  Those who "know it all"  and pass judgement on things that do not fit unto
their particular paradigm, should wait for more revealing and complete evidence.

SRAM

( spelling  >>>  In Great Britain and many of its former colonies, “judgement” is still the correct spelling; but ever since Noah Webster decreed the first E superfluous, Americans have omitted it. Many of Webster’s crotchets have faded away (each year fewer people use the spelling “theater,” for instance); but even the producers of Terminator 2: Judgment Day, chose the traditional American spelling. If you write “judgement” you should also write “colour” and “tyre.”  )

In my opinion "judgement" is the correct spelling.

SRAM

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[b]JESUS IS GOD[/b]

idiom

Member

From: New Zealand

Registered: 2004-04-21

Posts: 312

Re: The Death of Mars Theory

SRAM:

That site does not address the problems of centripetal stress, or large asteroid strikes among other things. Unless they were attempting to postulate a theory of gravity where gravity tries to move everything into spheres... But then why is the Sun at the center of the system. The Hollow Planets model would be more plausible if there was nothing at the center of the solar system.

  >>>>>>><<<<<<<

It cannot  be a solar system if there is no centroid sun.

( Are there any systems without a centroid sun(s) ? )

That is the point. To fit the hollow planets model, the Sun should have formed something closer to a Dyson Sphere out where Jupiter is, with hollow planets orbiting just inside and outside of the Sun.

---

Come on to the Future

SRAM

Banned

From: Flawda USA

Registered: 2006-08-10

Posts: 40

Re: The Death of Mars Theory

SRAM:

That site does not address the problems of centripetal stress, or large asteroid strikes among other things. Unless they were attempting to postulate a theory of gravity where gravity tries to move everything into spheres... But then why is the Sun at the center of the system. The Hollow Planets model would be more plausible if there was nothing at the center of the solar system.

  >>>>>>><<<<<<<

It cannot  be a solar system if there is no centroid sun.

( Are there any systems without a centroid sun(s) ? )

That is the point. To fit the hollow planets model, the Sun should have formed something closer to a Dyson Sphere out where Jupiter is, with hollow planets orbiting just inside and outside of the Sun.

>>>>>>><<<<<<<

I am not in disagreement with your model.

I propose an alternate  model which allows for semi hollow planetary formation.

What if the theories are wrong ?

What if ALL the planets have hollow cores ?

A possible explanation is that the matter forming the planets and the sun is not a solid but rather  plasma, gas, and dust.

This "soup" would be more like a hot plasma-gas.

As this matter gathered and formed bodies the material would form spheres onto which more material would accumulate. Due to the postulated theory that as you
move toward the center of a mass, the gravity is LESS, then this effect lends itself
to the possibility that the center is hollow.

Pictures of the Earth and Mars seem to indicate a "spin vortex" at the poles of these planets.

A theory, a thought.  I am not being contentious.

SRAM

---

[b]JESUS IS GOD[/b]

idiom

Member

From: New Zealand

Registered: 2004-04-21

Posts: 312

Re: The Death of Mars Theory

I am just point out that you need to propose why the sun is where it is.

Also if gravity is weaker then you need another force to explain what is holding the planets together and preventing them from flinging themselves apart.

You need to add something to the theory is all. Such as a structural explanation of how your planetary models hold together.

---

Come on to the Future

SRAM

Banned

From: Flawda USA

Registered: 2006-08-10

Posts: 40

Re: The Death of Mars Theory

I am just point out that you need to propose why the sun is where it is.

Also if gravity is weaker then you need another force to explain what is holding the planets together and preventing them from flinging themselves apart.

You need to add something to the theory is all. Such as a structural explanation of how your planetary models hold together.

>>>>>>><<<<<<<

I will be very unscientific.

  GOD.

     I cannot explain it. I just believe it.

        I suppose that makes me a religeous  fanatic.

          Oh well.

             SRAM

---

[b]JESUS IS GOD[/b]

idiom

Member

From: New Zealand

Registered: 2004-04-21

Posts: 312

Re: The Death of Mars Theory

I thought I was the local religious nutter?

Okay if we are going to be unscientific (and ungodly, for all science has been based in religious assumptions, like the fact that there are rational laws to uncover because they were invented by a rational God(Kepler) or that God would create the simpler of two equal possibilities(Occam)) then what are your revelations that the planets are hollow?

Are the public, like many sacred texts? Most talk abouts lakes of fire, not bubbles.

Or are your revelations personal? If they are can you describe them?

---

Come on to the Future

nickname

Banned

From: Ontario, Canada

Registered: 2006-05-15

Posts: 354

Re: The Death of Mars Theory

Belinda,

A molten Mars cooling works well for Mars but not well for Venus.
If it is all dictated just from size then Venus should be an active world like earth.
Our moon might be the answer to that riddle.

SRAM,

Specific gravity will force all the heavy atomic elements to the center of the earth, as long as the medium is liquid.
At the exact center of the earth where gravity is near 0 who is to guess what is there, but likely its heavy atoms also from simply being churned.

Our sun isn't at the center of our solar system, Jupiter, Saturn etc all perturb the sun.

You have some interesting ideas and i would be the first to agree that science is a long way from being able to make any relevant statement about anything.

Most people forget that just a short time ago people were burning people just for thought, and now we ridicule people with ideas that don't fit what is believed to be true.

Sad to think that technology has come this far, but mans mind has not taken any giant leaps.

---

Science facts are only as good as knowledge.
Knowledge is only as good as the facts.
New knowledge is only as good as the ones that don't respect the first two.

SRAM

Banned

From: Flawda USA

Registered: 2006-08-10

Posts: 40

Re: The Death of Mars Theory

SRAM,

Specific gravity will force all the heavy atomic elements to the center of the earth, as long as the medium is liquid.
At the exact center of the earth where gravity is near 0 who is to guess what is there, but likely its heavy atoms also from simply being churned.

Our sun isn't at the center of our solar system, Jupiter, Saturn etc all perturb the sun.

You have some interesting ideas and i would be the first to agree that science is a long way from being able to make any relevant statement about anything.

Most people forget that just a short time ago people were burning people just for thought, and now we ridicule people with ideas that don't fit what is believed to be true.

Sad to think that technology has come this far, but mans mind has not taken any giant leaps.

Your model insist on a molten creation.

Creation exist on no model.

GOD created the heavens and the earth and no model need be presented.

(How is that for far out religious fanaticism?)   

(i broke down and used a smiley face >>> how radical of me  :!:  )

---

[b]JESUS IS GOD[/b]

SRAM

Banned

From: Flawda USA

Registered: 2006-08-10

Posts: 40

Re: The Death of Mars Theory

I thought I was the local religious nutter?

Okay if we are going to be unscientific (and ungodly, for all science has been based in religious assumptions, like the fact that there are rational laws to uncover because they were invented by a rational God(Kepler) or that God would create the simpler of two equal possibilities(Occam)) then what are your revelations that the planets are hollow?

Are the public, like many sacred texts? Most talk abouts lakes of fire, not bubbles.

Or are your revelations personal? If they are can you describe them?

There is a great deal of evidence.

I am not speaking  of you , but the following stateMINT  applies to many.

THERE ARE NONE SO BLIND AS THOSE THAT REFUSE TO SEE.

(THOSE THAT SEEK SHALL FIND)

SRAM

(we scared off Belinda)   
:shock:

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[b]JESUS IS GOD[/b]

Belinda

Member

From: UK

Registered: 2004-12-03

Posts: 31

Re: The Death of Mars Theory

Nickname:

A molten Mars cooling works well for Mars but not well for Venus.
If it is all dictated just from size then Venus should be an active world like earth.

It's hypothesised Venus' heat  gets trapped in its upper mantle below a too-slowly cooling lithosphere to the extent that mantle substance eventually loses density leading to a catastrophic overturn of the lithosphere per half billion years in which it sinks below magma escaping from underneath. This is given as an explanation why much of Venus' surface seems to be about the same age.

Belinda

Member

From: UK

Registered: 2004-12-03

Posts: 31

Re: The Death of Mars Theory

SRAM:

(we scared off Belinda)

No way did you. I just went out for the day.

SRAM

Banned

From: Flawda USA

Registered: 2006-08-10

Posts: 40

Re: The Death of Mars Theory

Nickname:

A molten Mars cooling works well for Mars but not well for Venus.
If it is all dictated just from size then Venus should be an active world like earth.

It's hypothesised Venus' heat  gets trapped in its upper mantle below a too-slowly cooling lithosphere to the extent that mantle substance eventually loses density leading to a catastrophic overturn of the lithosphere per half billion years in which it sinks below magma escaping from underneath. This is given as an explanation why much of Venus' surface seems to be about the same age.

I can believe that Venus is as HOTT as her name.

However if I wanted to build a starbase in this sector it would be a good place to hide out. With continuous cloud cover and an inhospitable surface environment , deep underground is the place to be.

If there are mega canyons, a possible livable environment may be there.

I am not sure if I believe NASA/JPL  and its probe reports as being reported as sensed.
(those in power, manipulation and control, playing GOD with the data, as they do with MARS and the Moon)

SRAM   

:mrgreen:

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[b]JESUS IS GOD[/b]

SRAM

Banned

From: Flawda USA

Registered: 2006-08-10

Posts: 40

Re: The Death of Mars Theory

SRAM:

(we scared off Belinda)

No way did you. I just went out for the day.

(now it must be Ian ! )

---

[b]JESUS IS GOD[/b]

SRAM

Banned

From: Flawda USA

Registered: 2006-08-10

Posts: 40

Re: The Death of Mars Theory

SRAM:

(we scared off Belinda)

No way did you. I just went out for the day.

(now it must be Ian ! )

  http://download-earth.org/?gclid=CKOb7L … IgodNVp9Bg

spacer

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[b]JESUS IS GOD[/b]

SRAM

Banned

From: Flawda USA

Registered: 2006-08-10

Posts: 40

Re: The Death of Mars Theory

SRAM:

(we scared off Belinda)

No way did you. I just went out for the day.

It looks like this topic may be winding down, out, over.

  Hey Belinda, Idiom, Nickname, et al ...

  Here is the link to a free NASA/others  program that lets you fly and zoom into spots
on Mars, Earth, da moon.

  Two separate sites. One in support of original download.

  NO COST TO YOU !!!

   http://worldwind.arc.nasa.gov/index.html

   http://worldwind.arc.nasa.gov/download.html

    http://www.worldwindcentral.com/wiki/Mars

    http://www.worldwindcentral.com/wiki/World_Wind_Central

    enjoy

    SRAM >>>>>>>  dave   

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[b]JESUS IS GOD[/b]

nickname

Banned

From: Ontario, Canada

Registered: 2006-05-15

Posts: 354

Re: The Death of Mars Theory

Belinda,

The episodal model of Venus.

Trapped heat at Venus should make for a more active core, yet Venus has no magnetic field.

This could simply be the spin rate, or Venus didn't get a late large hit to stir it up.

Two planets being so similar ending up so differently just goes to show how small differences can make worlds of difference.

Venus might be the typical earth like planet in the universe.
Without late collisions and correct compositions all earth like places in the universe probably end up like it, or as frozen ice balls.   

It doesn't take much for a runaway greenhouse or runaway freeze on any earth like planet.

I think the moon is much more important than we give credit for.

SRAM,

Why wouldn't god go ahead and make molten planets?
Makes as much sense to create them that way.

If god is the creator then he could do whatever he wanted, not for us to decide what he did, just for us to understand the process.

---

Science facts are only as good as knowledge.
Knowledge is only as good as the facts.
New knowledge is only as good as the ones that don't respect the first two.

SRAM

Banned

From: Flawda USA

Registered: 2006-08-10

Posts: 40

Re: The Death of Mars Theory

Belinda,

The episodal model of Venus.

Trapped heat at Venus should make for a more active core, yet Venus has no magnetic field.

This could simply be the spin rate, or Venus didn't get a late large hit to stir it up.

Two planets being so similar ending up so differently just goes to show how small differences can make worlds of difference.

Venus might be the typical earth like planet in the universe.
Without late collisions and correct compositions all earth like places in the universe probably end up like it, or as frozen ice balls.   

It doesn't take much for a runaway greenhouse or runaway freeze on any earth like planet.

I think the moon is much more important than we give credit for.

SRAM,

Why wouldn't god go ahead and make molten planets?
Makes as much sense to create them that way.

If god is the creator then he could do whatever he wanted, not for us to decide what he did, just for us to understand the process.

NICKNAME

The moon is very important to keep the oceans stirred up.
(not to include aiding moonlit lovers to smooch in the LOON  light):shock:

   The molten planets theory does not fit with the semi-hollow planets theory.  

I believe that GOD created all planetary bodies semi-hollow and that the sun is also semi hollow.

(how's that for radical thinking ?)   (illogical ?)   

SRAM :mrgreen:

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[b]JESUS IS GOD[/b]