Protein Sources in First Colonies - An idea

SpaceNut · 2005-07-07 13:17:06

[url=http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8498629/]Scientists propose growing artificial meat
Cultured tissue could be made to order: more nutrients, less mess[/url]

One would wonder if you were eating meat or a leftover test tube baby (gross) if you did not see the source of it. Sorry first thing that came to mind from the term test tube.

Laboratories using new tissue engineering technology might be able to produce meat that is healthier for consumers and cut down on pollution produced by factory farming, researchers say.
Writing in the journal Tissue Engineering, Matheny said scientists could grow cells from the muscle tissue of cattle, pigs, poultry or fish in large flat sheets on thin membranes. These sheets of cells would be grown and stretched, then removed from the membranes and stacked to increase thickness and resemble meat.

dicktice · 2005-07-07 19:37:25

Why does it have to resemble meat, bloody or otherwise, and chewable. Making it drinkable, and get your fibre (what used to be termed "roughage") from cellulose cooked broth made from same, and flavoured as desired artificially.

Stormrage · 2005-07-08 12:26:27

I copied and pasted from one of my other postes.

You don't need fish. All you need is an algae called Chlorella.
When dried, Chlorella is about 45 percent protein, 20 percent fat, 20 percent sugar, and 10 percent various minerals and vitamins.
We can feed it by giving our waste product. The amazing thing with this is it is a miracle food. It has alot of health benfits and it can remove toxic materials in our body like mercury or uranium.
You can find out more about it here.
http://tuberose.com/Chlorella.html]http … rella.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chlorella] … /Chlorella

Commodore · 2005-07-08 20:33:38

Why does it have to resemble meat, bloody or otherwise, and chewable. Making it drinkable, and get your fibre (what used to be termed "roughage") from cellulose cooked broth made from same, and flavoured as desired artificially.

Yeah, that sounds appetizing.

Besides, the idea is to create a working ecosystem. Drinking bagged Fibercon really doesn't do that.

dicktice · 2005-07-09 12:06:31

I know, I know--it was just the meat-lookalike aspect. I don't like bloody cuts of meat that remind me what I look like being operated upon by a (hopefully non-cannibalistic) surgeon. My preference has, and always will be, horticulture aboard space stations and Mars-bound transports, as labour intensive as possible, to help pass the time watching and caring for the fresh green plants under weightless conditions--not to mention the breathability advantages to be gained. Shake-fry chopped vegetables, with liquified grown-flesh mushroom sauce seasoned with evaporated-sweat salt ... mm-mm, good!

Mace · 2005-07-17 20:32:51

Why not grow a genetically protein rich strain of fungus? Then you will not have left-over parts like bones. Add a little flavor and spices and poof, theres a meal.
Note: this is only a tempory solution until Mar creates a stable ecosystem and crops of other plants or animals.

srmeaney · 2005-07-21 08:13:12

For starters, a protien rich fungus is not condusive to Human to human health. Teeth require chewy,grindy kind of foods or the number one disease will be gum disease. Martians on a diet of gummy food are in for a nasty surprise.

Mind you, a fungus that can support food requirements at the lower end of the food chain would be good for livestock. Fish are going to require protien to ensure the meat is protien rich for human consumption.

We are still headed for a situation of 'we can keep parts of the animal alive-the bits that process nutrients and produce the food, so who needs the whole animal' future. It is a truly terrible destination. Not far from it is we dont need women, hack the heads off and you have a child making factory. Just keep the corpse alive and feed it what it needs to survive and produce...

Space Colonization is fraught with such perils of unethical nature that the right of a single life to exist as it does naturally and freely must be absolute. There can be no comprimise...Eating the rest of the crew is easy by comparrison.

Mace · 2005-08-02 18:52:11

I do not mean to be rude...but gross!! Those are some disturbing thoughts. Second, protein rich food from animal parts is great, but the people will need some "filler." Hmm...maybe some sort of fast growing fungus will supply the raw food?

greengirl · 2006-06-15 03:38:18

I'd never thought to put fish outside...I'd always assumed that they would go in the same greenhouse where plants were being grown, with thier waste possibly being used as fertilizer. It may sound gross to our palettes, but in a limited space you could also raise snails to eat. Besides the well known french proclivity for them- regular wild varieties are eaten by people in the mexican jungles. My sister was very surprised the first time she was served a snail taco. Snails can definately be fed on waste and they grow like the dickens, and I bet they could even live in zero g, what with thier magical ability to stick to flat surfaces. And unlike other, shall we say, more developed animals, they can live in very high densities without it being cruel to them, or having them become aggressive towards one another.

Currently I don't think there is a lot of interest (outside of that of a few scientists), as most people find the idea of eating lab grown meat distasteful, but I do remember reading once that scientists were able to grow fish tissue (goldfish!) from a small sample. It's very far from perfected, but I've always thought that if people did start to settle mars, that would stimulate an interest in that sort of research. I found an article:

http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn3208

I realize it's always good to plan as if technological breakthroughs which MIGHT happen, won't, and it may be that the first settlements will grow meat the old fashioned way. But I don't think it's unrealistic to assume that this technology won't be given a serious kick in the butt funding wise and interest wise once people actually start GOING places in space, and that it may end up being useful. It would certainly save on space.

TwinBeam · 2006-06-24 21:41:27

Yes it is possible. A few problems to overcome though.
1. Water pressure in the tube will be lower due to the difference in gravity. this means that water freezes at a much higher temperature than on earth.

Nope - low enough pressure might make water (or ice) vaporize (e.g. boil) more easily, but the freezing point of water under low pressure only increases a tiny amount.

http://encarta.msn.com/media_461541579/ … Water.html

Reptoid · 2006-07-25 22:01:45

Space Colonization is fraught with such perils of unethical nature that the right of a single life to exist as it does naturally and freely must be absolute. There can be no comprimise...Eating the rest of the crew is easy by comparrison.

Aw, but the crewmembers... they look so tasty!

SpaceBull · 2006-08-02 15:20:23

Soy and other beans can easily provide sufficient high-quality proteins, and can be grown in greenhouses at Mars. Beans depend on nitrogen-fixating bacteria that should be brought from Earth along with the plant seeds. I don't know how much nitrogen that are present in the Martian atmosphere, but if there is not enough of it then it shouldn't be to hard to find nitrate deposits in some form somewhere on the surface. Enough nitrogen is important because it is a main building block of proteins.

canalbuilder2 · 2006-08-03 10:51:35

We'll be taking plenty of nitrogen with us, in the form of food, and human waste. A lot of this nitrogen is in the form of urea in urine. Undiluted urine is an excellent fertilizer, I recommend you try it on your garden. Go on, pee on your peas, it'll do them good.

If you're worried about the health effects, the World Health Organization guidelines are that if a household's urine is being used on that household's food crops, it can be used immediately. Processing faecal matter takes longer because of the pathogens it contains.

maxie · 2006-08-05 06:49:00

I don't know how much nitrogen that are present in the Martian atmosphere, but if there is not enough of it then it shouldn't be to hard to find nitrate deposits in some form somewhere on the surface. Enough nitrogen is important because it is a main building block of proteins.

Of course, nitrogen is a macro-element for plants. But there is none in the atmosphere (actually there is 0.01% which = none), and there are no known nitrogen deposits. :? Apparently, Mars is devoid of serious sources of nitrogen. If this holds true in the future, it will be a big problem. There might be similar problems with phosphates.

We'll be taking plenty of nitrogen with us, in the form of food, and human waste. A lot of this nitrogen is in the form of urea in urine. Undiluted urine is an excellent fertilizer, I recommend you try it on your garden. Go on, pee on your peas, it'll do them good.

Nitrogen reclaimed from food & waste for n persons (for example) brought from Earth will not be enough by far to grow crops for the same n persons. This happens because the total biomass of cultivated crops on Mars is far greater than the mass of edible material from the same biomass. And from Earth they will only take edible food.

For example (a very rudimentary one): you take 100 kg of beans for the trip. But those came from a total of 500 kg of plants, out of which only 100 kg are edible beans, the rest are roots, leaves which are left on Earth.
Nitrogen reclaimed from those 100 kg of beans can be used to grow only 100 kg of plants, which will produce 20 kg of new beans...

SpaceBull · 2006-08-05 08:08:44

Mars probably has some sort of nitrogen deposits, but we haven't really been looking for it yet I think. The composition of the human body gives a good idea of what elements that must be found on Mars, and what element that can be brought from elsewhere:

99% of the mass of the human body is made up of just six elements: oxygen, carbon, hydrogen, nitrogen, calcium, and phosphorus.
Oxygen (65%)
Carbon (18%)
Hydrogen (10%)
Nitrogen (3%)
Calcium (1.5%)
Phosphorus (1.0%)
Potassium (0.35%)
Sulfur (0.25%)
Sodium (0.15%)
Magnesium (0.05%)
Copper, Zinc, Selenium, Molybdenum, Fluorine, Chlorine, Iodine, Manganese, Cobalt, Iron (0.70%)
Lithium, Strontium, Aluminum, Silicon, Lead, Vanadium, Arsenic, Bromine (trace amounts)
http://chemistry.about.com/cs/howthings … ements.htm

MarsDog · 2006-11-14 10:55:50

Protein Poisoning is more of a problem than deficiency:
http://www.arthritis-back-knee-pain-fre … otein.html

On various islands in the Pacific are tribes of people who have followed the same diet for dozens of generations; fruits, roots and tubers. They enjoy excellent health and consume about 15 grams of protein a day.
http://www.rawfoodexplained.com/protein … -need.html

Algae and fungi for maximum use of resources.
Add large variety of grains.
Eat the snails and goldfish in the aquarium.
And for more muscle, try a big earthworm.
http://www.google.com/search?q=largest+ … era&rls=en

Astronaut training, for those few who enjoy the diet.
Only short monks, with a small rice bowls, need apply ?

Yang Liwei Rocket · 2007-05-31 11:56:37

Foods from Plants can still be grown in mimic conditions very similar to that on the moon and Mars, and although the ISS hasn't become a great science station there have been many plant and biology experiments going on in the International Space Station

wtwt5237 · 2007-06-01 01:52:24

My answer is this: you can reap protein out of the newly-found fungi that can convert radiavtive energy to biological energy forms. But I guess these fungi need CO2 and water to produce carbonhydrates. CO2 won't be of a problem and water may be rare on Mars. Transportion of water to Mars is too expensive and inefficient. And the problem of lack of water, especially its H+ ionic lies in the way of every solution. It's what we should first solve.

neviden · 2007-06-12 07:25:29

And the problem of lack of water, especially its H+ ionic lies in the way of every solution. It's what we should first solve.

Maybe we could dig deep enough so we would get to the permafrost? And after that, we could maybe recycle that water..

Protein sources would come from plants (soy, beans, nuts) and from animals (fish, chicken, rabbits, goats, cows). That is unless we wouldn’t grow anything on Mars. In that case the protein sources would come from the canned food.

Number04 · 2007-06-14 09:22:36

I don't know why there is this fascination with bring cows.

Mars doesn’t need milk.

I would concentrate on whole grains, beans and other vegetables. Fish and snails are a great idea if they can be managed properly. By that i mean they should be incorporated into the greenhouse eco system.

Anything after that, i think we are talking at least 50 years.

But, I’m not against sending a Christmas turkey now and again. (put a few beer in that shipment as well)

neviden · 2007-06-14 16:14:36

I don't know why there is this fascination with bring cows.

Cow is a bigger version of a goat. When (and if) you expand your base to larger operation it would make sense to bring cows.

Mars doesn’t need milk.

True. You can easily make milk substitute from soy.

I would concentrate on whole grains, beans and other vegetables. Fish and snails are a great idea if they can be managed properly. By that i mean they should be incorporated into the greenhouse eco system.

The simplest greenhouse eco system would be the use of hydroponics with fish tanks. The waste from fish tanks is a good fertilizer for plants. When you grow grains, beans and vegetables, you also grow inedible biomass. Inedible to humans, but not to the animals. You can easily give this “waste” to goats or rabbits.

Since it would be wise to grow a lot more food then it is needed (crop failures?), there would be a need for lots of cheap (from Mars resources?) greenhouses. But when you can build them, you can easily produce more grains that is needed. Feed them to chicken and you get meat and eggs. Or to turkeys. Or to cows..

So, the “martians” would get proteins from grains, beans, fish, rabbits, goats, chicken, eggs, (goat? cow?) milk.. the same way they do on earth.

Anything after that, i think we are talking at least 50 years.

Yes, but this is not related to number of years but to number of people. 6 people would get proteins from grains, beans and maybe fish and rabbits. 60 people would also grow chickens, goats and turkeys. 600 people would have cows and any other animals they would wish to have and eat.

Number04 · 2007-06-15 16:00:53

The thing with cows is that they are very wasteful. There was a previous post that the author said (approximate quote) "Chickens use less grain to feed per kg of meat they produce"
I don't think we should bring cows and goats just because that's what we eat on earth.

Example;
Australia is currently going though a drought and cattle farmers are having trouble keeping their cows alive. But, kangaroos are thriving. Some experts say that they should all be eating kangaroo meat, instead of trying to raise cattle that were brought over to Australia during colonization.

A study should be done to find an animal that would cope the best in a Martian environment and give the colonists the best efficiency when it is slaughtered.

And on the topic of green houses, here is an interesting site.

http://verticalfarm.com/designs.php

Number04 · 2007-06-21 08:40:39

Here is an article that may be of interest.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ … eFoodWine/

X · 2008-01-14 01:15:20

Cow is a bigger version of a goat. When (and if) you expand your base to larger operation it would make sense to bring cows.

What about musk oxen? They're goats and not bovines. I wonder if they could adapt to a diverse diet. They can also tolerate cold so you wouldn't need to expend as much energy on heating their enclosure. Plus the hair they grow during the winter is one of the warmest natural fibers so you make clothes out it, and it falls out naturally so you don't even have to bother shearing them.

I don't think cows are that bad, but I think water buffalo would be better by far. They're stronger than oxen from all reports I've read. I remember someone here proposing digging holes to use as fish tanks or something along that line. Buffalo could possibly be used for a source of simple musclepower in churning the ponds to add oxygen or heat, or possibly some other application requiring low power. Their skin makes leather so thick that it can be cut in half thickwise as to render leather normally thick. They can be milked and eaten.

Terraformer · 2008-01-17 05:28:00

Fish to start with (they won't be affected by the .38g), then (pygmy) goats and chickens?

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