New Mars Forums

Commodore

Member

From: Upstate NY, USA

Registered: 2004-07-25

Posts: 1,021

Re: The need for a Moon direct *3* - ...continue here.

RTG's?
Why would we be limited to solar?

*hippys explode*

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"Yes, I was going to give this astronaut selection my best shot, I was determined when the NASA proctologist looked up my ass, he would see pipes so dazzling he would ask the nurse to get his sunglasses."
---Shuttle Astronaut Mike Mullane

cIclops

Member

Registered: 2005-06-16

Posts: 3,230

Re: The need for a Moon direct *3* - ...continue here.

There is a limit to what we should be trying to do robotically for the moment. But finding lunar water really is critical. Dark side communications is also required. Pratice for comsumable resupply would also be useful.

Finding lunar ice is one of several important goals for the next phase of lunar exploration. However the cost and risks of lunar ISRU using water ice or regolith will make it unlikely to happen during the initial RTTM landings and would divert scarce resources from the Mars program. Calculate what the first 100 t of lunar rocket fuel would cost given all the new expensive infrastructure needed to produce it. Having said that, the moon might work as a test bed for a Martian water ice ISRU plant.

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[color=darkred]Let's go to Mars and far beyond -  triple NASA's budget ![/color] [url=irc://freenode#space]  #space channel !! [/url] [url=http://www.youtube.com/user/c1cl0ps]   - videos !!![/url]

SpaceNut

Administrator

From: New Hampshire

Registered: 2004-07-22

Posts: 29,433

Re: The need for a Moon direct *3* - ...continue here.

Five NASA Centennial Challenges Competitions Open For Registration

Lunar Regolith Excavation Challenge, administered by the California Space Education & Workforce Institute with a total prize value of $250,000.
- MoonROx (Moon Regolith Oxygen) Challenge, administered by the Florida Space Research Institute with a total prize value of $250,000.

SpaceNut

Administrator

From: New Hampshire

Registered: 2004-07-22

Posts: 29,433

Re: The need for a Moon direct *3* - ...continue here.

With plans slowly shaping up for moon missions in 2018 Nasa will need to at some point look at base construction. Preventing the sky falling in on Moon bases

"A meteoroid blasting through a Moon base would be a bad day in space."

Sure does put a damper on things should you lose all you air even just from a small hit.

Mars_B4_Moon

Member

Registered: 2006-03-23

Posts: 9,776

Re: The need for a Moon direct *3* - ...continue here.

Building a Base on the Moon: Part 2 - Habitat Concepts
http://www.universetoday.com/2008/02/09 … -concepts/

SpaceNut

Administrator

From: New Hampshire

Registered: 2004-07-22

Posts: 29,433

Re: The need for a Moon direct *3* - ...continue here.

Fixed shifting topic issues and artifacts

We had forum issues back then that if a topic got to large that they would become corrupted and posts would be lost, so there are 2 more with lots more details of what we were thinking back then.

Back when this topic was started we had been told that Nasa was going back to the moon on a SDV called constellation also known as Apollo on Steriods....

That said we are now with Orion and SLS.... to expensive to do much more than 1 trip a year....which also is limited when you count in the funds needed to keep a manned base as well on the moon and if the ISS is the bench mark then we will be stuck on the moon missions regardless of what we can now mine and bring back.....

SpaceNut

Administrator

From: New Hampshire

Registered: 2004-07-22

Posts: 29,433

Re: The need for a Moon direct *3* - ...continue here.

Bump for GW as it relates to why are we going back to the moon....

SpaceNut

Administrator

From: New Hampshire

Registered: 2004-07-22

Posts: 29,433

Re: The need for a Moon direct *3* - ...continue here.

hah ha found number 3 of moon direct... Zubrin has put forth a plan for a moon direct using 3 Falcon 9 heavies to get the job done with lots of insitu resource developement to make staying and recycling possible for the moon.

SpaceNut

Administrator

From: New Hampshire

Registered: 2004-07-22

Posts: 29,433

Re: The need for a Moon direct *3* - ...continue here.

Back when the shuttle ended it was anounced that Nasa would be going back to the moon to stay.

NASA heading back to Moon soon, and this time to stay

NASA is accelerating plans to return Americans to the Moon, and this time, the US space agency says it will be there to stay.

Jim Bridenstine, NASA's administrator, told reporters Thursday that the agency plans to speed up plans backed by President Donald Trump to return to the moon, using private companies.

"It's important that we get back to the moon as fast as possible," said Bridenstine in a meeting at NASA's Washington headquarters, adding he hoped to have astronauts back there by 2028.

"This time, when we go to the Moon, we're actually going to stay. We're not going to leave flags and footprints and then come home to not go back for another 50 years" he said.

This is being done thou with the efforts and help of the ISS partners.
Nasa has made some requests already in the lines of support for the Gateway and now for moon landings.

Russia mulls delivering takeoff-landing system to Moon in 2029

According to the source, the prospective Don super-heavy class carrier rocket will be capable of delivering a payload of up to 130 metric tons to a low-Earth orbit, and a payload of up to 32 metric tons to the lunar orbit.

SpaceNut

Administrator

From: New Hampshire

Registered: 2004-07-22

Posts: 29,433

Re: The need for a Moon direct *3* - ...continue here.

Other parts of the plan for moon landers, space tugs and refueling ships. This Is NASA's Plan to Land Astronauts on the Moon in 2028 with Commercial Vehicles

Step 1:

NASA's Moon Return Plan: 2024

The first phase of NASA's return to the moon with astronauts begins in 2024 with an uncrewed decent vehicle landing test as the agency builds up its Gateway station in cis-lunar space. The descent vehicle, at this stage, is not reusable.

Step 2:

2026: Uncrewed Lunar Lander Full Test

In 2026, NASA envisions a full-up uncrewed lunar landing on the moon.  The test would use a tug-like transfer vehicle to move to low lunar orbit from NASA's Gateway station, then land. The lander's ascent element would return to orbit and be ferried back to the Gateway by the tug.

Step 3:

2028: Astronauts Back On the Moon

In 2028, NASA will send four astronauts to the moon for a lunar landing from the agency's Gateway station, supported by refueling spacecraft. The lunar ascent and transfer vehicles will be reusable. Astronauts would stay on the moon for up to a week at a time.

Of course they want Help from Private Companies to Land Astronauts on the Moon by 2028

Terraformer

Member

From: The Fortunate Isles

Registered: 2007-08-27

Posts: 3,906

Website

Re: The need for a Moon direct *3* - ...continue here.

Don super-heavy class carrier rocket

It's gonna be a big beautiful rocket, probably the greatest... you have no idea how great it's gonna be.

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Use what is abundant and build to last

Oldfart1939

Member

Registered: 2016-11-26

Posts: 2,452

Re: The need for a Moon direct *3* - ...continue here.

I'm not holding my breath...

This will die another miserable death in Congress--either that or the Old Space boys will feed at the trough longer.

SpaceNut

Administrator

From: New Hampshire

Registered: 2004-07-22

Posts: 29,433

Re: The need for a Moon direct *3* - ...continue here.

Holding Breath for the Russian is a guessing game that I would not want the US to do for its moon program.

The partners that we need is to get more US companies onboard to developing what Nasa needs to build, launch and support the program of going to the moon even if it includes an orbital station for staging.

The modules of the ISS could be built again and launched with no problems so why is it not happening for what we would call a lunar station.

SpaceNut

Administrator

From: New Hampshire

Registered: 2004-07-22

Posts: 29,433

Re: The need for a Moon direct *3* - ...continue here.

We know of the polar craters containing water ice and possibly in other locations but what will it take to be able to stay is a lot more and it seem that its possible. Ingredients for water could be made on surface of moon, a chemical factory

When a stream of charged particles known as the solar wind careens onto the Moon's surface at 450 kilometers per second (or nearly 1 million miles per hour), they enrich the Moon's surface in ingredients that could make water, NASA scientists have found. Using a computer program, scientists simulated the chemistry that unfolds when the solar wind pelts the Moon's surface. As the Sun streams protons to the Moon, they found, those particles interact with electrons in the lunar surface, making hydrogen (H) atoms. These atoms then migrate through the surface and latch onto the abundant oxygen (O) atoms bound in the silica (SiO2) and other oxygen-bearing molecules that make up the lunar soil, or regolith. Together, hydrogen and oxygen make the molecule hydroxyl (OH), a component of water, or H2O.

SpaceNut

Administrator

From: New Hampshire

Registered: 2004-07-22

Posts: 29,433

Re: The need for a Moon direct *3* - ...continue here.

Wow a mission back to the moon and yet we can not even go yet....

Mars_B4_Moon

Member

Registered: 2006-03-23

Posts: 9,776

Re: The need for a Moon direct *3* - ...continue here.

Scholars say it's time to declare a new epoch on the moon, the 'Lunar Anthropocene'
https://phys.org/news/2023-12-scholars- … lunar.html

"The consensus is on Earth the Anthropocene began at some point in the past, whether hundreds of thousands of years ago or in the 1950s. Similarly, on the moon, we argue the Lunar Anthropocene already has commenced, but we want to prevent massive damage or a delay of its recognition until we can measure a significant lunar halo caused by human activities, which would be too late."

Holcomb collaborated on the paper with co-authors Rolfe Mandel, University Distinguished Professor of Anthropology, and Karl Wegmann, associate professor of marine, earth, and atmospheric sciences at North Carolina State University.

Holcomb said he hopes the Lunar Anthropocene concept might help dispel the myth that the moon is an unchanging environment, barely impacted by humanity.
U.S. astronaut Buzz Aldrin erects solar wind experiment. Credit: NASA

SpaceNut

Administrator

From: New Hampshire

Registered: 2004-07-22

Posts: 29,433

Re: The need for a Moon direct *3* - ...continue here.

Here is the last of the 3 topics that continue the main topic of how to get to the moon with a direct plan.

Mars_B4_Moon

Member

Registered: 2006-03-23

Posts: 9,776

Re: The need for a Moon direct *3* - ...continue here.

These Are the Numbers Behind NASA's Space Launch System Block 1B Mega Rocket
https://www.autoevolution.com/news/thes … 30923.html

Splashdown practice for Artemis 2 moon mission 'an incredible experience,' new NASA astronaut says (exclusive)
https://www.space.com/artemis-2-moon-mi … -interview