Private Space Tourism

Yang Liwei Rocket · 2005-09-30 22:25:13

LIFTOFF! Liftoff of the Soyuz rocket carrying the next joint Russian-American crew to the International Space Station!
:!:
T+plus 30 seconds. The Russian Soyuz is maneuvering to the proper heading. All engines are up and running.

The world's third "space tourist", US millionaire Gregory Olsen, successfully started his flight to the international space station (ISS) on Saturday along with a Russian cosmonaut and an American astronaut.
The Russian-built Soyuz TMA-7 capsule carrying the three blasted off from the Baikonur cosmodrome in the middle of Kazakhstan's barren steppes at 7:54 a.m. Moscow time (0354 GMT).
STAR CITY, Russia - Space passenger Greg Olsen
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/9323509/
Greg Olsen may be paying $20 million for a ride to the international space station next month, but that doesn’t mean he’ll get out of doing the chores in orbit.

After the liftoff, the space craft will rendezvous in two days with the ISS, about 400 kilometers above Earth.
Russian cosmonaut Valery Tokarev and US astronaut William McArthur who was riding with Olsen, will relieve Russian Sergei Krikalev and American John Phillips who have been working on the station since April.

T+plus 7 minutes, 30 seconds. Soyuz is 124 miles in altitude and racing to achieve orbital velocity

Soyuz commander Valery Tokarev says the capsule's separation from the rocket was nominal. The craft is beginning its sequence to deploy power-generating solar arrays, as well as antennas for navigational and communication systems.

Yang Liwei Rocket · 2005-09-30 22:28:17

why do some say NASA remind people of a cranky ol' communist dinosaur when it comes to the tourist area and privatization of Space ? Tito has already said bad things about Shuttle

Rxke · 2005-10-01 02:16:06

Before Cindy starts ranting about how she thinks space tourism is a Bad Thing(TM) I want to say: impressive.

Tito was 100% tourist, doing nothing but floating around, taking snapshots of earth and listening to music. Partly because he was not allowed to do anything beside that (NASA being scared he might break things)
OTOH, he was a long-time space- tech. From the Wikipedia:

Tito has a Bachelor of Science in Astronautics and Aeronautics from New York University, 1962 and he later received a Master of Science in Engineering Science from Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, New York. He received an honorary doctorate of engineering from Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute on 18 May 2002 and is a former scientist of the NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory.

He got rich by something quite different,

In 1972 he founded Wilshire Associates, an investment management firm in Santa Monica, California which does indexing.

But I think we can all agree this was a man that had a life-long dream of 'reaching the stars' and adding his part to make it possible. So, spending a chunk of his wealth to actually live the dream... I think it had some poetry.

Shuttleworth was a 80% tourist. Rich South African, did a hard bargain to be able to conduct experiments in orbit himself. A great guy, wanting to educate people, (like the Shuttleworth Foundation, a non-profit organisation dedicated to social innovation which also funds educational projects in South Africa,) and starting the excellent user-friendly Ubuntu (and more recently Edubuntu) free operating system project (Linux based,) which arguably could make it possible for less wealthy people to run a modern operating system w/o paying $$$$ for software. (did I say he is my hero?)

Now our last entrant: 50% tourist. Taking with him experiments and hardware from his own firm, to test and do r&D in orbit...

Are we seeing a developing trend here? (hmmm. 3 data-points is a bit meagre, I know! )

Palomar · 2005-10-01 05:04:30

Before Cindy starts ranting about how she thinks space tourism is a Bad Thing(TM) I want to say: impressive.
18 May 2002

*May 18 is my birthday.

Actually I wasn't going to say anything about the current space tourist. Have been following a couple of articles. Well...it is his money and I hope he enjoys the ride.

But basically...big deal. Going 'round in circles. He's not doing anything different than what Shuttle and ISS astronauts have been doing all these years (LEO).

The only reason I think space tourism is a "bad thing" is because it's still not truly getting us anywhere. Rich or poor, public or private citizen, whatever -- it's still merely orbiting in LEO which is all we've been doing for the past 30 years. There's the much-vaunted statement that mankind has "left the cradle." Fine, now let's quit standing beside the cradle (Earth) shall we?

Honestly, I just don't see how others are excited about "same-old, same-old." Makes no difference to me that he's a private citizen.

And after Apollo? Everything since Apollo has been banal by comparison.

I want to see a manned mission to Mars. That would be beyond a worthy successor to Apollo.

--Cindy

Rxke · 2005-10-01 05:33:33

Phew, I was just in time, heehee!

SpaceNut · 2005-12-15 12:57:26

Well the Russian's have definitely made a go out of tourism at least with what is available but the future looks to others private companies to do the same. Even Nasa knows that they only way to off load a large portion of the expenses are to get the commercial industry involved. But at the current prices that the giants in the business are setting for access to space little to no others are attempting to get there exept for those few dreamers in what is the Altern-x movement.

Space Tourism Firm Unveils Orbital Spacecraft Concept in the Silver Dart...

SpaceNut · 2005-12-30 06:45:10

While space tourism is definetly not at the top of Nasa's list the alternate-x has followed the Russians lead and have begun to persue such efforts. With this comes the government buracracy to get in the way or to down right make it more difficult for them to succeed. IMO we should have just one rule and that would be fly safely from start to return or do not do it.

Gov't Issues Proposed Space Tourism Rules

Thinking of spending that next vacation on the moon or Mars or circling the Earth? Before liftoff, there's a list of things the would-be "space flight participant" should know.

Just who would not want to do these things if the price were right...

Here is just the tip of the rules by the FAA:

Before taking a trip that literally is out of this world, companies would be required to inform the "space flight participant" — known in more earthly settings as a passenger — of the risks. Passengers also would be required to provide written consent before boarding a vehicle for takeoff.

Also mentioned in the Alternative for space can they lead to a cheaper access thread was the silver dart. Indian finalises tourist spacecraft design for an eight-person orbital fly back spacecraft.

SpaceNut · 2005-12-30 11:15:59

Here are some more of the rules in the 120 pages plus that the FAA proposes for space tourists.

Physical exams for passengers are recommended, but will not be required, “unless a clear public safety need is identified,” the FAA says in the proposed regulations.
Passengers also would have to be trained on how to respond during emergencies, including the loss of cabin pressure, fire and smoke, as well as how to get out of the vehicle safely.

So how does one exit any craft when you are at near space safely, can it be done while you are still going up or must you wait until you are on the way down...

The 123-page proposal was published Thursday in the Federal Register, the government’s daily publication of rules and regulations, and will be subject to public comment for 60 days, through Feb. 27. Final regulations are expected by June 23.

GCNRevenger · 2005-12-30 13:08:09

If an escape mechanism that operates at all phases of launch is required, then everybody ought to give up on this space tourism business right now and go home... or Austrailia

"The Silver Dart is the beginning of what will be the orbital vehicle to provide different services and capabilities to our customers including responding to NASA's request for Commercial Orbital Transportation Services."

Haha, dream on... The Canadian Arrow with a glider on top? A stepping stone to an orbital vehicle? Hardly

"PlanetSpace expects to fly almost 2,000 new astronauts in the first five years, and expects to generate revenues of $200 million in the fifth year"

*CoughBScough*

BWhite · 2005-12-30 13:29:13

According to a space.com comment, the rules include this:

"Space Tourists may be subjected to TSA screenings and checked against the 'no-fly' list."

Somehow, I find this amusing.

"Sorry, sir but we need you to take off your shoes and walk through the metal detector before boarding SpaceShipTwo"

Commodore · 2005-12-30 15:16:01

Well, at least the lines will be short.

SpaceNut · 2006-02-17 08:06:53

Space race triggered by tourist flight plan

Space Adventures will soon be able to fly 60 miles into space to see the curve of the Earth and experience weightlessness from a launch pad being built in Singapore. This is in response to Sir Richard Branson's Virgin Galactic building a spaceport in the US state of New Mexico, which is still in process.

Rxke · 2006-02-17 12:02:21

Hmmm... I clearly recall Rutan said in an interview that 60 miles is not good enough for touristflights, so he's building a jalopy that will a bit higher, giving you some extra time in near-weightlessnes.

They'd better take that into consideration, or reduce their prices compared to V.Galactic. (Edit:) 59,000 pounds, that's cheaper than V.G.? sfunny, already starting with supermarket price-quotations, 59 instead of 60k

cIclops · 2006-02-17 13:49:44

Capitalism works.

PurduesUSAFguy · 2006-02-17 14:04:34

Capitalism works.

I was just thinking the same thing, if you just leave it alone the free market will do amazing things.

Now if we could just get some private investment in fusion research...

publiusr · 2006-02-17 16:14:04

That is just why capitalism doesn't always work. Fusion will be developed using TVA means--not the MSN method.

A capitalists job is to make himself money--all else be hanged. That is not healthy. The R-5 and the Russian dominance in the LV market shows that big projects are things the state does rather well. I just love how the alt.spacers drive on the Eisenhower interstate system to tell us how 'we don't need gov't."

Let them pave their own roads to and from work--with that attitude.

This is why capitalism won't work for spaceflight. If I am an investor--I am not going to invest in Musk, or Rutan, etc.

I'll invest in Exxon. If you have ever been to any of these space expos, it is just a bunch of sellers and very few buyers. What litte moneys the space start ups grab come from greedy litte venture capitalists who don't know the meaning of infrastructure. The only reason Musk has come so far is due to the fact that he is using his money--where Kistler had their rug pulled out from under him by a venture vulture with no staying power. Korolov NEVER had those programs, because he had a whole set of design bureau under him.

The only space program that "Free Trade" has ever helped....is China's

Thank you Wal-Mart. Thank you Loral.

And people call NASA--the foremost space program of the free world, 'socialist.'

Please...

SpaceNut · 2006-02-17 22:03:30

Cosmic Log: Spreading out spaceports

Still more pieces of a space-tourism puzzle have been revealed by Virginia-based Space Adventures, with today's confirmation that the Emirate of Ras al-Khaimah in United Arab Emirates has been selected as the site for a yet-to-be-built suborbital spaceport.

EuroLauncher · 2006-03-02 11:13:08

Space Adventures Ltd. said Monday it plans to develop an integrated spaceport in Singapore that will offer sub-orbital spaceflights and operate astronaut training facilities and a public education and interactive visitor center.
"Singapore is one of the best-connected countries in the world. It is home to one of the world's busiest air and sea ports. Singapore, with its superior geographical and economic infrastructure, is primed to be the hub of a new, revolutionary form of travel - in space," said Eric Anderson, president and chief executive officer of Space Adventures.
http://www.space-travel.com/reports/Spa … apore.html

The company, which arranged orbital flights for U.S. businessman Dennis Tito in April 2001, and South African Internet tycoon Mark Shuttleworth in April 2002 - both via Russian spacecraft to the International Space Station - said the focal point of Spaceport Singapore will be sub-orbital spaceflights. As the company’s Explorer spacecraft reaches its maximum altitude of 100 kilometers (64 miles), its maximum of five passengers will experience up to five minutes of continuous weightlessness.
"Countries around the world are only just realizing the enormous commercial possibilities of space tourism,” Anderson said. “The market potential for sub-orbital spaceflights alone is estimated at $1 billion annually.”

MarsDog · 2006-03-03 02:40:32

And after Apollo? Everything since Apollo has been banal by comparison.
I want to see a manned mission to Mars. That would be beyond a worthy successor to Apollo.

People are bored.
Entertainment (and educational) value for all.
Rich tourists will get to do it.
For the rest of us, an exciting reality show.

SpaceNut · 2006-04-03 20:20:59

The company, which arranged orbital flights for U.S. businessman Dennis Tito in April 2001, and South African Internet tycoon Mark Shuttleworth in April 2002, The world's third "space tourist", US millionaire Gregory Olsen in September of 2005 but that has not been the last for SpaceAdventures news release.

Russia can also sell spare seats on its spacecraft to governments. Brazil's first astronaut Marcos Pontes arrived at the station on Saturday.

SpaceAdventures has also lined up Japanese citizen Daisuke Enomoto who would fly to the ISS with the next crew in the fall of 2006 and Microsoft founder Charles Simonyi will become the fourth U.S. space tourist for spring 2007.

Ex-Microsoft developer plans space trip; Architect of Word could be fifth paying passenger to station

Rxke · 2006-04-04 01:29:28

Architect of Word???

Burnnnn baby Burrrnnnn! :twisted:

(Me hates Word very very very deeply. But I was kidding, I'd never want something like this to happen, them Russian astronauts are worth too much )

SpaceNut · 2006-04-04 19:41:33

While I can not give comment to the word architec I however do see a problem on the rise with the selling of seats.

South Korea delays astronaut flight plan; Seoul says it was bumped due to NASA’s need for transport

South Korean astronaut was scheduled to hitch a ride on a Russian spacecraft in April 2007, but the United States has to take that seat to rotate crew at the international space station

This could have an oposite effect on the price of seats rising in cost, putting a slow down to the efforts of all wanting to make this same journey unless more launches can be achieved.

Grypd · 2006-04-19 14:21:36

US claims right to set new space tourism regulations

Under existing federal aviation rules all companies that wish to be involved in space tourism will require Federal Aviation Administration permits. This will also include non US companies and organisations.

GCNRevenger · 2006-04-19 16:47:41

What it basically says:

-Legally, the US could possibly be bound to pay back damages inflicted by a US space tourism company on a foreign state, so therefore they have to obey US safety standards, reguardless where they launch from.
_____________________________________________
Thoughts:

-These companies should apply for a waiver of some sort; the Shanghai "spaceport" is situated too far from any other country to inflict harm. The UAE may not had such an excuse though.

-"Second generation" space tourism vehicles might not have enough performance for orbital flights, but they do have fuel and range to become a hazardous kinetic energy missile if control is lost. A vehicle would have Oklahoma City Bombing level of destructive power at least.

-Manned spacecraft, with the exception of Shuttle's fuel tank and boosters, do not have self-destruct mechanisms. This is what they are for, to prevent the rocket from becomming a threat outside the launch area.

-It might be unlikly that a tourist vehicle would lose control so throughly, but legally speaking that isn't much of an excuse versus the space treaties.

-Even if Space Ship Two and its brethern don't have the kind of range needed to reach other countries, their sucessors will.

Austin Stanley · 2006-04-19 23:00:07

-Manned spacecraft, with the exception of Shuttle's fuel tank and boosters, do not have self-destruct mechanisms. This is what they are for, to prevent the rocket from becomming a threat outside the launch area.

I was aware that the SRB had range safeties, but not that they were incoporated into the main tank. Not that I doubt you, but do you have a source for this?

-- Actualy I just did some quick research on this. It seems the external tank orginaly incoporated range safeties, but sometime in the 90's they were removed to save weight.

-----

A mixed bag. The Shuttle external tank is a dangerous source of combustibles no matter how you cut it. No matter where and how it explodes, things are going to be messy. At least it doesn't incoporate any sort of engine so the range it can be thrown off course is limited, especialy in comparision to the SRB.

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#1 2005-09-30 22:25:13

Re: Private Space Tourism

#2 2005-09-30 22:28:17

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#5 2005-10-01 05:33:33

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#6 2005-12-15 12:57:26

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#7 2005-12-30 06:45:10

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