New Mars Forums

Trebuchet

Banned

From: Florida

Registered: 2004-04-26

Posts: 419

Re: Rat Flyby

Or to put it another way, people object to Mars missions on the basis of radiation en-route (I just saw a magazine article complaining about it), so why not try to quantify the effects of radiation on a Mars mission?

Basically, what I suggest is to build an automated rat habitat, stick it in a pod, and fire it on a Mars flyby. Any airtight can will do, so long as we outfit it with enough life support for a bunch of rats and guinea pigs. It zooms by Mars and returns to earth orbit, where the rats are either returned by some space vehicle, or are dragged to the ISS for an orbital checkup. We get a good biology experiment on the radiation exposure en route to Mars and back, and it probably would cost about as much as the 'cheaper-better-faster' probes we fired off a few years back, since it's not carrying anything other than rats, their associated life support, and essential spacecraft parts.

Commodore

Member

From: Upstate NY, USA

Registered: 2004-07-25

Posts: 1,021

Re: Rat Flyby

Well, for one, the lack of gravity would make a "control" impossible. It would be difficult to pin down just the effect of the radiation. Their ability to recover from background and radiation events could not be accurately studied because of unknown health effects of gravity. Even our meager exercises and drugs would not do anything for rats, and I doubt they'd know what to do with themselves. Also, there’s the matter of a severe radiation event that would kill everything early on. Since we can't exactly sterilize rats, a mass kill off risks killing the rats but not the proven tougher bacteria. Decay could leave us bones, not useless, but not quite worth the investment either.

In theory there are probably ways to get around that. Such a small critter may be able to survive in a 5m diameter capsule spun to one g, they are short after all. The adverse effects may not be an issue on that scale. A configuration other than a capsule would make it even more difficult to maintain the ecosystem, at least with EELVs. Anything larger and your out of your stated price range. In either case you are going to have trouble your little mickynauts in the capsule once its on the pad. A modified CEV type capsule and launcher might do the trick, but its not going to get you to near Mars space or back. Or at least not without going out of the stated price range.

Other issues with LSS would need to be solved.
•    A shielded section to protect them from solar storms, and a way to get them in it.
•    A way to clean up after them, as they won't do it themselves.
•    A way to keep the population stable.

An intriguing idea subject to physics. Someone smarter than me would have to figure out if that’s possible. None the less, studying the affects of interplanetary travel on non-human creatures is a required part of any Mars exploration program. Since manned Mars is still a few decades away, this would be a great way cross some more things off the checklist.

---

"Yes, I was going to give this astronaut selection my best shot, I was determined when the NASA proctologist looked up my ass, he would see pipes so dazzling he would ask the nurse to get his sunglasses."
---Shuttle Astronaut Mike Mullane

SpaceNut

Administrator

From: New Hampshire

Registered: 2004-07-22

Posts: 29,431

Re: Rat Flyby

You reminded me that there is an experiment that closely matches some of the above objectives in the Mars Gravity Biosatellite
Some quick facts:

Launch: Mid-2006
Launch Vehicle: SpaceX Falcon
Mission Duration: 5 weeks

Science Payload:
Population of 15 Female Mice
Mice Habitats w/ pumped water supply
Habitat Cameras
Chewable Mouse Toys
Body Mass Sensor
Urinalysis System

We are sort of waiting for the maiden voyage of the Falcon. Then the next question is what can we learn in only a 5 week period?

Commodore

Member

From: Upstate NY, USA

Registered: 2004-07-25

Posts: 1,021

Re: Rat Flyby

I'm not sure how much of a prototype that would be. 5 weeks of LSS is a drop in the bucket to the multi-year, multi-generational interplanetary cruise.

But getting Mar g out of a 1.7m capsule would seem to make 1g out of a 5m capsule very possible, perhapes even for meatier rodents and poultry.

---

"Yes, I was going to give this astronaut selection my best shot, I was determined when the NASA proctologist looked up my ass, he would see pipes so dazzling he would ask the nurse to get his sunglasses."
---Shuttle Astronaut Mike Mullane

Trebuchet

Banned

From: Florida

Registered: 2004-04-26

Posts: 419

Re: Rat Flyby

Well, for a control, we could build a second rat carrier and just leave it in LEO, I suppose.

As for the flare shelter... rats are trainable. We could build a radiation shelter with a treat dispenser with doors that can be closed (to prevent rats from escaping). On earth, train the rats to run in the shelter when a buzzer sounds. In space, sound the buzzer every so often (and dispense treats) to reinforce the learning.

If you have a flare, sound the buzzer, then close the shelter doors once the last rat is in.

As for keeping a stable population: easy enough. Either choose all rats of one gender, or seperate the two genders of rat on the capsule. If breeding rats is on the agenda, you can put RFID tags on your first-generation rats and build a chamber which is connected to each chamber and selectively opens its doors for the RFID #'s mission control sends over. Or perhaps some other trick.

Just segregating male/female rats in different parts of the capsule seems easiest, though.

As for cleaning up after the rats... well, that's where some serious hard thought needs to be put in. I have no doubt it can be done; perhaps the floors for the rats are wire mesh and some sort of automated pooper-scooper runs underneath. The engineers can earn some money there.