God, Creation, and the Universe Explained! - Life, the Universe, and Everything.

AltToWar · 2002-12-09 23:11:24

Ain, Ain Soph, Ain Soph Aur

In the beginning....

It is really really impossible to truely know what happened before the universe was. Don't even try, it will hurt your brain.

The reason being is that in order for us humans to know somthing, we must take it into the context of things we have already learned. The problem with trying to know what happened before the universe was is that there is no context for us to base it on. There was no space or matter or light or energy. Nothing here today was there. Not even the things we measure them by, or the rules things follow. Just give it up.

Well, if your still curious, I will explain it to you.

At first, there was Ain. Ain very roughly translates into "Nothing" or "Without".

There was nothing, in a more nothing then nothing. Imagine you had nothing, and you took even that away. Thats what you had. (This is essentially where god is)

From Ain, arose Ain Soph. Roughly translated into "Limit-less" or "Nothing-less". "Without Limit". A potential for everything.

Within nothing, is the potential for everything.

And from Ain Soph came Ain Soph Aur. Translating into "Limitless Light".

When you have somthing that is truely and utterly nothing, within that nothing-somthing is the potential for absolutely anything. From that potential of anything, Ain Soph Aur is the somthing that happened to happen. Ain Soph Aur happens to be everything.

From nothing arose infinate possability. From infinate possability arose an infinate actuality.

Now this god person, thats even more confusing. God is absolutely not a part of this univese. Where God is, we certianly are not. God is behind the 3 vails of Ain, Ain Soph, and Ain Soph Aur. For all intents and purposes, god just is not here.

Now this particular description of god is not some angy bearded man sitting up on a cloud pointing his croocked finger at man, just waiting for an opportunity to toss them into some childhood nightmare of fire and man faced dogs. I dont subscribe to that god.

This god is what was before the universe was, which for our purpose here is Ain, or nothing.

The events of Ain, Ain Soph, and the Ain Soph Aur can be described by another way. The ZimZum.

In this explination, there was god. God made a place where he was not. Then God let just a little bit of himself into the place where he wasn't. That place and his bit of god seed became the universe.

Josh Cryer · 2002-12-10 01:54:42

Why must there be beginnings in these little stories?

Palomar · 2002-12-10 08:47:02

Ain, Ain Soph, Ain Soph Aur
In the beginning....
At first, there was Ain. Ain very roughly translates into "Nothing" or "Without".
From Ain, arose Ain Soph. Roughly translated into "Limit-less" or "Nothing-less". "Without Limit". A potential for everything.
Within nothing, is the potential for everything.

And from Ain Soph came Ain Soph Aur. Translating into "Limitless Light".

*Looks like someone's been studying the Qabala [or Kaballah, Caballa, however you wish to spell it].

--Cindy

clark · 2002-12-10 10:02:10

Dosen't the story in and of itself, by definition, claim to "know" god?

If "god" is infinite,it would exsist in all states, at all moments in time.

There is no begining, middle or end.

There just is- just "being".

All things are equal.

soph · 2002-12-10 14:28:03

god is a force to me-not something with intentions, or a mind, or thoughts, just a force, that set into motion our universe's beginning.

what happens when we die? i dont know, but my assumption is that we simply cease to exist, including our consciousness. perhaps this will be deciphered when we understand more about the brain, how the consciousness that it is referred to as our "soul" functions. yes there are electrical impulses, but i dont think we understand how they combine to make us conscious. i could be wrong.

i saw a book coming out called something like "The God Gene." The basic gist is that we've believed in god for so long its programmed into our genomes. this doesnt mean its true, only that we have been programmed to believe in religion through many milenia of superstition.

in that case, the atheists (me included), would be at a different evolutionary stage than believers-we've shed our "god" gene in favor of skepticism. in my mind, reason and religion cant coexist. if you put a mother goose story in the bible in the place of say-noah's ark, nobody would notice. ???

clark · 2002-12-10 14:43:50

Sure, atheists are the next "evolutionary" step in mankind... :0

Obviously aethists lack the "humility" gene.

"...excpet for Episcopalians, if that's the one true faith, I'll eat my hat." - Homer Simpson

soph · 2002-12-10 15:38:30

i didnt say i believed what he wrote--i just presented his interpretation. i know far too little about genetics to say whether its right or wrong.

CalTech2010 · 2002-12-10 15:40:34

I hear hell is really nice in about December! Be sure to bring some sunscreen and a broad-brimmed hat. The sun burns down there are TERRIBLE!

clark · 2002-12-10 15:47:28

I hear reality is nice most of the time.

Fire and brimstone? As if god was that uncreative.

I know, I am everything, so I'll make things really tough on those unbelievers and put them in place that is really hot...

soph · 2002-12-10 16:06:17

i'm sorry if my point of view on the subject of religion (and that doesnt include the evolution comment, it was more of a joke than anything), doesnt fit with yours. i thought i was free to my own beliefs.

CalTech2010 · 2002-12-10 16:23:35

No, by all means you can state your own opinion. But, if you put your opinion on a pedestal for the whole world to judge, expect someone to frown upon it.

clark · 2002-12-10 16:29:42

Good point Cal,

So have fun wasting your time believing in utter nonsense.

Spend your time learning about facts, but found your life and principles on a bedrock of superstition that only serves as a means to seperate yourself from yuor fellow man.

You're 14. I don't fault you for that, but you need to get into to your head that you may not be completly correct in believing that your fundamental truths are true.

You may counter back with vain attempts to rationalize why your truth is more true than anyone else, but it is a lie.

The fact of the matter is that if your truth was so fundamentaly true for all to see, then all would see it. Far too many people have lived and died not seeing what you see, and a great deal of them have probably led a better life than you with your "truth".

Do not condem those who think differently, and they will not condem you. It's not a hard fact of life, but most people miss it- even the fucking athesists.

soph · 2002-12-10 16:36:53

hey, to each his own. if somebody believes in god, maybe theyre right, and im goin down the deep end. but i would believe a reasonable god didnt judge somebody for their choices, as long as the intentions were good.

im used to getting frowned upon. im half german, half jewish. thats not the point. referring to hell when i make a comment bothers me, however.

and thats one of my gripes with religion, if its so fundamentally correct, why isnt everybody christian, jewish, muslim, hindu, or even atheist?

there is no "truth" until we know what the truth is. until then, its all theory. i dont remember condemning anybody, only being condemned.

and im 15

clark · 2002-12-10 16:58:38

The previous post was directed towards Cal.

Holier than thou attitude is nothing more than arrogance, and it permeates those on both sides of belief.

Phobos · 2002-12-10 19:55:01

god is a force to me-not something with intentions, or a mind, or thoughts, just a force, that set into motion our universe's beginning.

I've heard people believe that God is somekind of universal consciousness that is manifest in all things and not really a coherent being in the way we usually think of Her, but your concept of God seems unique in that you don't believe "God" has thoughts or intentions. I think you might be anthropomorphizing the forces of nature or speaking of God as a metaphor for the natural forces that brought the universe into existence. After all if God doesn't think and therefore created the universe through no intentional effort wouldn't that just make God something akin to a natural force that could be studied and quantified like gravity?

Holier than thou attitude is nothing more than arrogance, and it permeates those on both sides of belief.

I certainly agree with that.

CalTech2010 · 2002-12-10 22:18:40

Once again, you're misunderstanding me. I was making the comment that if you can't take the pressure of scrutiny, don't put yourself there in the first place. I can handle it, so I put my thoughts here for the world to see.

The reason I put my thoughts here in the first place is to have them refined so that my new ideas are better and stronger than before. What you guys say about my arguments affects how I use them in the future. I am not saying I am "holier than thou" by any means! I put what I perceive to be truths up here in the hopes that I will find have a new truth the next time I come here.

The hell comment was a joke as well. I was just making light of the fact that this was a very religious and philosophical thread until "your-truths-are-wrong" soph showed up with her atheist posts. BUT THEY ARE WELCOME HERE! I hope that soph's ideas refine our own in the end.

It's funny how the two most controversial topics of all- politics and religion- have been the two topics I have levitated to. I really have nothing to offer to the:

I really, truly think I'm going to help with the design of the habitats, rovers, and probes, even though NASA is chaulk-full-o people trained in those disciplines people.

soph · 2002-12-10 22:27:55

her?

and phobos, thats almost exactly what i was getting at.

CalTech2010 · 2002-12-10 22:33:56

Whoops! I swear I knew you were a guy... I apolgize for

her atheist

I must not have been thinking... I'm really sorry...

Ummm....Hmmmm....yeah, sorry again man. Let's get this debate fired up again.

Shaun Barrett · 2002-12-11 00:59:09

Hey, Cal!

NASA might be chock-full of experts on habitats, rovers, and probes, but they're nowhere near as smart as (we think) we are!!

AltToWar · 2002-12-11 02:20:11

When the Light entered into the void, it created 10 Sephroths (translated lights) in the Image of the Ain. Each of these lights were given a name to help describe them.

The translated names for the first 3 are:

Ehayay, I am that I am
Yah, Being
Eloheim, God(ess) among Gods

Did god have an intention or purpose? Intentions and purposes are things that humans have in a world with 3 dimentions and time.

At the very best, we can ascribe our own experiences towards god. But one must remember that when you do this, you do this only allegorically. You must be ready to shed these Ideas easily, because they are only simple symbols to help understand a more complex concept.

From the first 3 names we can gather the 'intentions' of god.

God wished to exist.

God held up a mirror to himself, and that mirror is the universe.

Now the first 10 Spheres or Lights that held the image of god in that mirror could not contain the image.

The 10 spheres broke.

The 10 spheres reassembled themselves 3 more times until you come to the last assembly, and that is the universe we currently exist in.

4 sets in all.

The first set being named Atzolut, meaning nearness or image.

The second meaning Briah, beaning Creation.

The third being Yetzerah, meaning Foundation.

The last being Ashiah, meaning making.

clark · 2002-12-11 10:02:06

Okay Nida. I didn't think I would have to go so slow, but obviously this all is a little over your head. Let me know if I am using any words your femminist mind just can't get around, I will try to make thise easy, even for you.

Belief is based on faith, not on tangible facts. Any "truth" that you accept as such, without confirming evidence, is nothing more than a belief.

A case in point, many on this board have a belief that mankind can thrive in space.

It is a belief for the simple fact that is hasn't been proven. It is an act of faith to believ that we can go to Mars, or anywhere else for that matter, and thrive in space.

If I belive that we can't, am I wrong, or am I right? If you believe that we can, are you right, or are you wrong?

It's an opinion either way.

Athesists take it as a matter of faith that there is no god. Religious people take it as a matter of faith that there is a god.

No evidence exsists to prove or disprove anyone. It's all a fucking opinion.

It is utter nonsense to believe your articles of faith are true while also holding that other articles of faith is not true. You end up condeming yourself.

All beliefs are equal, all are equally valid, or they are all equally bullshit.

There is no contradiction here, other than your preconceived ideas about me. Nida, give it up, you're not that smart.

Come back when you have something useful to say, right now, you just make your entire gender look silly.

twit.

Palomar · 2002-12-11 10:38:33

Clark: Okay Nida. I didn't think I would have to go so slow, but obviously this all is a little over your head. Let me know if I am using any words your femminist mind just can't get around, I will try to make thise easy, even for you.

*What's her being a feminist got to do with the discussion at hand and the criticism she directs toward your comments?

Clark: It's an opinion either way...All beliefs are equal, all are equally valid, or they are all equally bullshit.

*So then just what is your problem with Nida being a self-proclaimed feminist?

Clark: Come back when you have something useful to say, right now, you just make your entire gender look silly.

*Wow, that is a really small-minded comment. I'm sure someone could say the same thing in response to you, Clark, but some of us are aware of the fact that no one person speaks for/represents an entire group of people [and no, Nida, I'm ::not:: relating that statement with you].

--Cindy [a HUMANist]

clark · 2002-12-11 12:36:37

"You don't have a leg to stand on, because I showed everyone here that you contradict yourself, so you want to resort to ad homien insults on me."

Oh, I must have been mistaken when you called Cal and I " big pompous wind-bags".
And perhaps I should take your other statement ", and Clarkie's contradictions are apparent to anyone with a working brain." as a sign of your affection. Your insults are laughable, but it is you dear Nida that chose the demeanor of this conversation, not I.

You are perfectly free to say what you wish Nida, and feel free to continue on about how I talk out both sides of my mouth. It is more than likely my own failing that I am unable to make you understand some of the rather simple points I am making. The reason I point out your rather acidic feminist stance is because I see it being the lens by which you appraise others, or ideas. Perhaps I am doing you a disservice, but simply every post I have seen authored by you is nothing more than feminist inspired rhetoric. "what about the women" or "women should be first cause they were so oppressed for sooooo long"; or "hey, god could be a woman" etc. etc. etc.

If I look silly so be it, but I doubt it will be demonstrated by the likes of you, and I certainly haven't said anything here that most adults would consider silly. I'm sorry if your inability to understand my point makes you lash out like the adolecent that you so obviously are, perhaps time and experience will be your salvation.

In case you still don't get it though, I was simply saying that nobody who believes anything should question the validity of why someone else believes something else. It's called mutual respect of belief.

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Sound familiar?

Now who is silly? Take that chip off your shoulder and you might even learn something, after all, miracles sometime happen.

Palomar · 2002-12-11 12:57:33

Clark: rather acidic feminist stance is because I see it being the lens by which you appraise others, or ideas.

*Usually I avoid the unpleasant interaction of other folks, but I feel I must chime in: You're known to be rather caustic at times yourself, Clark.

Clark: Perhaps I am doing you a disservice, but simply every post I have seen authored by you is nothing more than feminist inspired rhetoric.

*Yes, I think you -are- doing Nida a disservice. She doesn't inject feminism into every post of hers I've ever read; some she does and some she does not. You, however, will use it against her in an attempt to shoot down -anything- she has to say. Which, again, begs the question: If it's "all bullshit" as -you- contend, what is the basis for the insults you've used in this thread? There should be no use or reason for insults if, as you contend, everything is equal and no one can be right or wrong. Correct?

Clark: "women...were so oppressed for sooooo long";

*Women -have- been oppressed for most of human history. Or are we now to be made to believe that for most, if not all, of recorded human history women were given equal opportunities in education, careers, and a say in the workings of governments? The histories of the world say quite otherwise; you know it and I know it.

Clark: or "hey, god could be a woman" etc. etc. etc.

*I don't recall her ever having proclaimed that. But what if she did? For millenia now the world's major religions have proclaimed "God is male."

[Actually, some religions -do- believe in a female deity, or that "god" is a combination of male and female].

Enough said.

--Cindy

clark · 2002-12-11 13:23:27

So I am caustic, eh? So it must be my oh so liberal views on respect for other beliefs that are caustic? Or perhaps it is my neo-conservative stances on society and the individual that are caustic? I see Nida reacting from a feminist perspective without little thought into what she is saying- I tend to view the things I am seeing as at least defensible and reasoned.

So Nida doesn't interject feminism in every post? How does that invalidate my point that this obvious bias of hers discredits what she is saying to begin with here?
The basis of the insults I used began with Cal making a joke that someone else will "burn" for their views. I find fault with a view like that, just as I fault others who think that their belief that no god exists, and religion is all a sham is correct. I insulted both sides in a vain attempt to demonstrate the equality of both positions, they either are all legitimate, or none are. Choose.

I'm sorry Nida ,or you ,or anyone else for that matter is having such a hard time with this.

Everything is equal except for those who claim they are right and everyone else is wrong- that operates from a point of assumption that your beliefs are more valid than someone else's. Sweet Jesus, I am talking about equality and mutual respect of belief, yet this is missed because of personal bias's- and then I am faulted.

Yes, women have been oppressed for millennia, and many continue to be oppressed. You want me to rally, I'll rally. You want me to vote, I'll vote. You want me to join the liberation movement in nangia, I'll join. But unless there is a specific point that needs to be made regarding this, what point does it serve to rave on and on about it? It just sounds like whining coming from a 16 year old in merry ol' England.

I have brought up inequalities in the past, yet every time I do, I do so for a reason- to demonstrate a point, to show another side. I have yet to see any point to what Nida is saying each and every time she brings up the feminist perspective. It bespeaks of ignorance and pretension.

So, believe a woman is a god, and I'll believe god is man, and others will consider god to be a duck. Why the hell does it matter? What is the point of interjecting this? It serves no purpose other than to inflate her own sense of self worth?. But more power to her, you, and the ducks.

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Re: God, Creation, and the Universe Explained! - Life, the Universe, and Everything.

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