China eyeing new HL - Agency Expecting approval this year

Yang Liwei Rocket · 2006-01-06 17:11:06

http://www.technologynews.info/015604.html
China looks to the moon for fuel
http://english.people.com.cn/200512/30/ … 31836.html
It had been decided that China's lunar fly-by mission program has overall proceeded from an initial design stage to the production of a satellite and its carrier rocket, announced Luan Enjie, commander-in-chief of the country's lunar exploration program.

publiusr · 2006-01-27 16:37:20

Glad to see the carrier rocket getting more attention.

EuroLauncher · 2006-03-07 13:10:04

The Chinese launch vehicles of are much easier to follow and study than those of NASA/USA or Russia/USSR. Like the United States the USSR/Russians had a very complicated program with plans for a huge variety of rockets such as Protons, Rockot, Vostoks, Dnepr, Energia, Kosmos, Tsyklon, Molniya, Air-launch, Shtil, Zenit, Star-1, Soyuz-Fregats.....

The Long March rocket is pretty easy to follow, however the 1st LongMarch is sometimes described as 'CZ-I' because the Long-March-1 was also know as ChangZheng-1. Since then the Chinese rockets have been abbreviated both LM- and CZ in websites and textbooks.

Like the US and USSR, its space-rockets have had military implications - the Long March rocket is related to early versions of the Dongfeng ballistic missile and the DF-missile is the generic Chinese name for all of its land ICBMs. These Chinese potential as a Space power was only really first noticed after it launched the propaganda satellite 'East Is Red' back in 1970,

LM1 or CZI - in 1970 the LongMarch-1 or ChangZheng-I rocket launched its first satellite declaring "the East is Red", the LM1 could launch small payloads into LEO

LM2 or CZII - in 1975 the Chinese used the LongMarch2C or Chang Zheng-2C to launch a payload into LEO

CZIII or LM3 - in 1984 China with its ChangZheng-3 or LongMarchIII was now able to launch 1,300 Kg into GTO

LM-IV or CZ-4 - in 1988 these Chinese rockets ChangZheng-IV or LongMarch-4 were able to launch much larger payloads into orbit

All of the recent manned and unmanned-Shenzhou mission have been launch by a modified version of the early LongMarch-2 rocket family ( CZII ). The LM-2F or ChangZheng2F is the man-rated version of an earlier launcher and is now able to launch 8,000 kg into space or a spacecraft/capsule carrying two people.
China has been using LMII or CZ-2 for its manned missions, this rocket is good for manned flight to LEO but for Mars they could need something bigger - however I have also seen plans for a ChangZheng-5 and LongMarch-6 launcher.

The Chinese have declared plans for the Moon, launch of such large lunar payloads into low earth orbit would be within the capability of an upgraded version of the CZ-5 and could be available as early as 2010. During the International Astronautical Federation (IAF) annual congress in Rio de Janeiro, China unveiled deatils of its new CZ-5 heavy launch vehicle family. China hopes that the LongMarch-V rocket or CZ-5 will fulfill the requirement for large payload LEO and GEO missions for the next 20–30 years, with the first versions of the vehicle going into service by 2008. ChangZheng-5 (CZ-5, or Long March-5 in its translation) developed by China Academy of Launch Vehicle Technology (CALT) is China’s next generation heavy-load launcher. They also announced plans to build a new launch pad - Hainan Spaceport will be the fourth and southernmost space center, manned grade, suited for the new CZ-5 Heavy ELV. Chief Designer for the CZ-5 was Long Lehao but a recent report says that according to Wu Yansheng at the China Academy of Launch Vehicle Technology, Wu says 'capacity cannot satisfy the needs of our plans to develop a space station nor the tasks of our lunar project to land (on the moon) and return' Chang Zheng 6 is a planned next-generation Heavy ELV for lunar and deepspace trajectory injection (70 tonnes in LEO) but the CZ-5 was still awaiting final approval and would take about six years for development, being ready in 2012.

The Chinese have plans to use the Long March rockets to launch robotic craft to the Moon and launch their own space-station. A lunar landing stage developed from a Shenzhou-derived return vehicle could also be used on a one-way trip to place moon base payloads of about 11 tonnes on the lunar surface. Like the Russians and Americans the Chinese have a number of active launch pads. Taiyuan Satellite Launch Center was commissioned for sun-synchronous missions and thus supports all CZ-4 launches. TSLC is primarily used to launch meteorological satellites, earth resource satellites and scientific satellite on Long March launch vehicles. The Jiuquan Satellite Launch Center in the Gobi was China's first spaceport. The Xichang Satellite Launch Center is located in southwestern Sichuan Province, from where China launches powerful rockets and geostationary satellites. China does have plans for the Moon with the Chang'e Lunar mission and other China spacecraft. Chang'e will be an orbiter, the second stage of Moon exploration will be a soft landing on lunar surface with a rover much like the Russian Lunokhod-moonbot but with more recent technology such as NASA's Spirit and Opportunity Rovers but the Chinese Rover/Lander is still in early stage of design - Chinese organizations have showcased their prototypes and the winner will be selected through a nationwide competition. The third stage is a sample return mission such as Russia's robotic return craft or the planned NASA and ESA missions to Mars with MSR craft. A future Hainan Spaceport would be suited for the new CZ-5 Heavy ELV while the future ChangZheng-6 or LM-VI would be China's next generation Heavy ELV for lunar and deepspace trajectory or injection of 70 tonnes in LEO orbits, but we have yet to hear any news on the latest plans for CZ5.

another thread here
http://www.newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4473
Can China go to Mars ? Dr. Zubrin will talk in August 06

Mars_B4_Moon · 2006-03-31 14:13:14

some photos and links

http://www.spaceprojects.com/Chinese-sp … ts2000.gif
http://www.newscientistspace.com/data/i … -2_250.jpg
http://www.chinapage.com/space/cz-2f.jpg

http://www.ce.cn/kjwh/gengduo/200510/13 … 1716.shtml
http://221.224.3.75/wangxiao/ReadNews.asp?NewsID=849
http://www.cnr.cn/zhuanti1/sz6h/kp/t200 … 12328.html
http://www.gdmzzx.com/study/phy/yywl/index02.htm
http://www.chinanews.com.cn/news/2005/2 … 6647.shtml
http://space.lamost.org/news/space%20station.htm
http://www.maomingdaily.com.cn/mmrb/b/b … 140034.asp
http://www.whnet.edu.cn/NewsDetails.aspx?NewsId=510
http://news.sina.com.cn/2003-10-10/17061894759.shtml

don't bother asking me what it means, I'm not sure

SpaceNut · 2006-03-31 22:10:10

I ran a few pages though the http://babelfish.altavista.com/ complete web page using Chinese simp to english to translate. Some of the pages are from the proper God boat Airship or spacelab made from 6 launches to create their version of a space station. The Shezhon thread have some of these simular articles of such advance stage planning in them.

Mars_B4_Moon · 2006-04-05 23:02:39

some of these guys think China might be thinking of building a Nuclear Pulse Rocket program
board
be warned though, the board is not well moderated like here and seems to be full of nuts

publiusr · 2006-04-13 11:15:01

some of these guys think China might be thinking of building a Nuclear Pulse Rocket program
board
be warned though, the board is not well moderated like here and seems to be full of nuts

Oh well. In the news:
http://uplink.space.com/showflat.php?Ca … o=0&fpart=
http://www.space.com/news/060412_china_cooperation.html

Yang Liwei Rocket · 2006-07-03 10:24:02

China took foreign reporters on a tour Wednesday of the command center of its secretive space program, a gesture of openness to encourage Washington and other governments to allow Beijing a role in joint manned space projects.
http://www.newsone.ca/hinesbergjournal/ … &id=198629
The highlight was a 15-minute appearance by Col. Yang Liwei — his first encounter with Western reporters since he orbited the Earth in 2003 on China‘s maiden manned space flight.
The carefully supervised 90-minute tour was part of a charm offensive by China, which hopes to win access to the International Space Station and other joint projects by allaying fears about the goals of its military-linked program.

EuroLauncher · 2006-08-02 16:41:25

China's space exploration plans include not only missions to the moon but also Mars

http://edition.cnn.com/2006/TECH/space/ … pace.reut/

China will also seek international cooperation for its deep space plans, it quoted Sun Laiyan, head of the China National Space Administration, as saying.

GCNRevenger · 2006-08-03 07:02:33

By "mission" they mean "unmanned probes"

And if they need foreign help for technical assistance, then they are even further behind then I thought.

publiusr · 2006-08-11 15:10:08

At least for now.

Back to the propulsion/fuel debate. Liquid Hydrogen weighs 16 times less than LOX and lox is rather cheap in comparison. The the cost of hydrogen is less. With hydrogen you need big tanks--but that is no loss what with better volume to weight.

For spaceplanes however, you need a dense fuel. And for them--I think hypergolics are best. You have a compact airframe that way. The greens won't like it though.

Martin Astrorocket needs to be looked at again, in about 50 years when we get even better materials.

Mars_B4_Moon · 2006-08-24 10:26:00

China And Russia To Launch Joint Mission To Mars
http://www.marsdaily.com/index.html
China and Russia are planning a joint mission to Mars that will bring back samples to earth and land on one of the red planet's tiny moons, state media quoted a Chinese scientist as saying Wednesday. Ye Peijian, of the Chinese Research Institute of Space Technology, made the announcement at a forum on the nation's space technology development, Xinhua news agency said.
Ye said Russia will launch the spacecraft in 2009 and it will carry China-made survey equipment. The mission will collect samples on Mars and the planet's nearest moon, according to Xinhua.

publiusr · 2006-10-27 11:52:51

I was kinda hoping they would go the R-56 route--keep existing hypergolics for awile--and make a 40 ton to LEO LV. That might have been cheaper than abandoning hypergolics altogether and having all new infrastructure.

Mars_B4_Moon · 2007-02-18 03:06:51

There is some talk on the badastronomy/universetoday forum, http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=3860&page=3
also a number of their posters and bloggers seem to be from Beijing

China's lunar program is about more than national pride. Try this: a limitless supply of clean, safe energy.

EuroLauncher · 2007-03-13 15:19:58

China's new space program unveiled

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2007- … 832530.htm

The government has unveiled an ambitious blueprint for developing space science that includes the launch of the country's first astronomy satellite and more extensive international cooperation.
The astronomical satellite will carry a "hard X-ray modulation telescope," which is being developed by Chinese scientists for launch in 2010, according to the Space Science Development Plan.
The plan was released by the Commission of Science, Technology and Industry for National Defense for the 11th Five-Year Plan (2006-10) over the weekend.
The project will help Chinese scientists make breakthroughs in research of black hole physics and other fields, as hard X-rays originate mostly from regions close to black holes, experts said.
The telescope would be preceded by Shijian-10, a recoverable satellite to be sent in 2009 for scientific experiments, according to the plan.
The document singles out three international cooperative projects to be implemented in the current Five-Year Plan period.
They include a joint unmanned mission to Mars with Russia, which will not only bring samples back to Earth but also land on one of the red planet's tiny moons, Ye Peijian, a leading scientist at the Chinese Research Institute of Space Technology, said last August.
China and Russia will also work on the World Satellite Observatory of Ultra-Violet.
Another international cooperation project is the Small Explorer for Solar Eruptions (SMESE), a Chinese-French mission to observe solar flares and Coronal Mass Ejections for the next Solar Maximum in about 2011.
The plan does not specify a timetable for the three projects.
It says China will focus on innovation and sustainability of space science development to better serve the national economy and security, and help build China into an "innovative country".
The government will set up a system to ensure scientific projects are chosen in an "open and fair" fashion, and "multiple sources" are encouraged to fund such projects, it says.
The release of the development blueprint coincides with the ongoing sessions of the country's top legislature and political advisory body in Beijing.
Last week, Huang Chunping and Qi Faren, both members of the National Committee of the Chinese People's Political Consultative Conference, said the country would launch a moon orbiter "some time" this year and stage a space walk in 2008.

cIclops · 2007-03-14 05:32:58

The plan was released by the Commission of Science, Technology and Industry for National Defense for the 11th Five-Year Plan (2006-10) over the weekend.

Does this mean that China's space program is part of the military? Perhaps that's why it has taken them over 50 years to get around to launching an astronomy satellite.

Mars_B4_Moon · 2007-04-03 18:54:55

China reveals nuclear lunar rover
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/04/03 … oon_rover/
China is planning to send a nuclear powered rover to the moon in 2012 on its first unmanned mission to our natural satellite.

Yang Liwei Rocket · 2007-08-31 23:19:02

[url=http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2007/08/18/214336/video-chinas-lunar-sample-return-spacewalk-and-space-station-docking-concepts-revealed.html]Flightglobal has obtained a promotional video from the Beijing based-China Academy of Space Technology (CAST), a prime contractor to China's space programme.
It shows computer generated video images (CGI) of a Shenzhou manned spacecraft docking with what could be a space station module, a Chinese astronaut emerging from a Shenzhou's orbital module using a Russian Orlan-DM like spacesuit and a lunar sample return rocket launching from the Moon's surface.[/url]

EuroLauncher · 2007-10-29 15:45:47

I am not sure why it says 2013... all of the modules used in that version of the launcher should be developed and tested by 2010.

Six thousand people to be resettled to make way for new space launch center
http://english.people.com.cn/90001/90781/6292880.html

The new launch center is expected to be completed in 2012 and formally put into use in 2013.
The site would be mainly used for launching synchronous satellites, heavy satellites, large space stations, and deep space probe satellites, according to a plan published in late September.

publiusr · 2007-11-09 12:51:33

They are not afraid of the word progress.

Yang Liwei Rocket · 2007-11-27 06:32:34

China completes enclosure of land for fourth satellite launch center
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2007- … 098964.htm
New Rockets ? Better payloads for the Moon ?

They are not afraid of the word progress.

I wonder if shenzhou can truck payloads to the ISS like those Russian ships, are iss and shenzhou a compatible system ?

Antius · 2007-11-29 05:07:59

There appears to be some level of resentment against the Chinese programme on this board. I get the feeling that there are a lot of people here who would like to see them fail.

I am personally happy that at least one part of humanity take the challenge and promise of the new frontier seriously.

The reality is that all space programmes are likely to find themselves in a precarious position in the second and third decades of the 21st century. As global oil and gas production peaks, it is unlikley that that the US, China or any other nation, will have sufficient surplus budget to maintain the neccesary spending levels for high-level manned space flight. High-minded ideas for moon bases or expeditions to mars are likely to be shelved for the foreseeable future.

cIclops · 2007-11-29 06:27:00

The reality is that all space programmes are likely to find themselves in a precarious position in the second and third decades of the 21st century. As global oil and gas production peaks, it is unlikley that that the US, China or any other nation, will have sufficient surplus budget to maintain the neccesary spending levels for high-level manned space flight. High-minded ideas for moon bases or expeditions to mars are likely to be shelved for the foreseeable future.

Not resentment but awareness that the CNSA program appears to be almost completely orientated towards military applications or propaganda. China is a communist state that has adopted capitalism, it tolerates no opposition or free press. China either imprisions or executes anyone who opposes the government. It is closely following the Soviet model in using its space program as a tool for military purposes and state prestige. In this regard it would be better if it failed. It would be fantastic if the Chinese people could free themselves of their communist masters and join the rest of the democratic world and contribute to the peaceful scientific exploration of space and its eventual settlement.

The price of oil has increased mainly as the result of Chinese demand. A high oil price drives exploration to find new reserves and to exploit previously uneconomic fields and to use alternatives. Thirty years ago oil was expected to run out by the year 2000. Oil is an important part of the world's economy but only a small part, it won't affect spending on space programs.

Terraformer · 2007-11-29 06:41:07

I want them to declare a Moon mission. Then America will react with its own Moon mission, China declares a mars mission, America goes one step further with a full-blown colony, and the space race gets restarted for the finals.

But first it has to be China and India? in the other Semis.

cIclops · 2007-11-29 07:01:12

Another Apollo but this time a race to Mars or back to the Moon? Please no. Once the race is won the funding disappears and the project dies. We need a sustainable exploration program, and that's what NASA is trying to do if only Congress would fund it.

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#26 2006-01-06 17:11:06

Re: China eyeing new HL - Agency Expecting approval this year

#27 2006-01-27 16:37:20

Re: China eyeing new HL - Agency Expecting approval this year

#28 2006-03-07 13:10:04

Re: China eyeing new HL - Agency Expecting approval this year

#29 2006-03-31 14:13:14

Re: China eyeing new HL - Agency Expecting approval this year

#30 2006-03-31 22:10:10

Re: China eyeing new HL - Agency Expecting approval this year

#31 2006-04-05 23:02:39

Re: China eyeing new HL - Agency Expecting approval this year

#32 2006-04-13 11:15:01

Re: China eyeing new HL - Agency Expecting approval this year

#33 2006-07-03 10:24:02

Re: China eyeing new HL - Agency Expecting approval this year

#34 2006-08-02 16:41:25

Re: China eyeing new HL - Agency Expecting approval this year

#35 2006-08-03 07:02:33

Re: China eyeing new HL - Agency Expecting approval this year

#36 2006-08-11 15:10:08

Re: China eyeing new HL - Agency Expecting approval this year

#37 2006-08-24 10:26:00

Re: China eyeing new HL - Agency Expecting approval this year

#38 2006-10-27 11:52:51

Re: China eyeing new HL - Agency Expecting approval this year

#39 2007-02-18 03:06:51

Re: China eyeing new HL - Agency Expecting approval this year

#40 2007-03-13 15:19:58

Re: China eyeing new HL - Agency Expecting approval this year

#41 2007-03-14 05:32:58

Re: China eyeing new HL - Agency Expecting approval this year

#42 2007-04-03 18:54:55

Re: China eyeing new HL - Agency Expecting approval this year

#43 2007-08-31 23:19:02

Re: China eyeing new HL - Agency Expecting approval this year

#44 2007-10-29 15:45:47

Re: China eyeing new HL - Agency Expecting approval this year

#45 2007-11-09 12:51:33

Re: China eyeing new HL - Agency Expecting approval this year

#46 2007-11-27 06:32:34

Re: China eyeing new HL - Agency Expecting approval this year

#47 2007-11-29 05:07:59

Re: China eyeing new HL - Agency Expecting approval this year

#48 2007-11-29 06:27:00

Re: China eyeing new HL - Agency Expecting approval this year

#49 2007-11-29 06:41:07

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#50 2007-11-29 07:01:12

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