Bad news for volunteers

Adrian · 2002-08-26 10:32:05

I was quite keen on applying to the Desert Station for this winter since I fancied going somewhere different and felt that I could do some decent research there. Plus, I'd been sent an email saying that I'd gotten high marks on my (unsuccessful) application to the Arctic Station last year, and that I should apply to the Desert Station.

Alas, today I received this email from the Mars Society mailing list:

There will be no salary. Desert Station volunteers will be expected to cover their own travel costs to Salt Lake City. Flashline Station volunteers will need to cover their travel costs to Resolute Bay. The Mars Society will cover travel and associated costs beyond those points.

There goes my application then. It's one thing to give up a holiday and not get any pay, but to pay for my own flight there? I don't think many people can afford that. For previous seasons of the Arctic and Desert Station, the Mars Society paid for all transport.

I don't say this as criticism of the Mars Society - after all, paying for flights costs a lot of money - but I fear that this will drastically cut down on the pool of applicants and thus quality could drop. Clearly some sort of balance must be made.

Phobos · 2002-08-26 22:04:23

I don't say this as criticism of the Mars Society - after all, paying for flights costs a lot of money - but I fear that this will drastically cut down on the pool of applicants and thus quality could drop. Clearly some sort of balance must be made.

I think your right that such a "pay your own way" policy will cut down on the quality of the applicants. Most scientists and qualified students aren't exactly rich people, unfortunately. Maybe if cheapskates like myself would donate problems like this wouldn't happen.

Shaun Barrett · 2002-08-27 06:39:59

Phobos ... am I to understand from your comment here that you have yet to join The Mars Society?
If the answer is in the affirmative, action will be taken. You can expect a knock on your door in the pre-dawn hours.
Certain representatives of TMS, in black shirts and jack-boots, will escort you away for questioning.
Subversive elements WILL be rooted out and dealt with.
Heil Zubrin!!

Palomar · 2002-08-27 08:47:38

I don't say this as criticism of the Mars Society - after all, paying for flights costs a lot of money - but I fear that this will drastically cut down on the pool of applicants and thus quality could drop. Clearly some sort of balance must be made.
I think your right that such a "pay your own way" policy will cut down on the quality of the applicants. Most scientists and qualified students aren't exactly rich people, unfortunately. Maybe if cheapskates like myself would donate problems like this wouldn't happen.

*Would setting up a fund which people could contribute to [which would help Adrian and others in this regard] change the not-for-profit status of the Mars Society?

Bummer, Adrian; sorry to hear it.

--Cindy

Ronman · 2002-10-06 08:20:58

Start a lottery - five bucks to enter, with the winner getting the plane ticket. Or - bump up dues so that the association can fund a payable volunteer base pay ( seems you would not be a volunteer then. The govenment then gets involved with social security, medical, etc.). A few bucks from all of us would send some worthy individuals.

Adrian · 2002-11-09 11:35:14

Well, I bit the bullet and paid for my ticket to SLC - so that means that I'm officially on Crew 3 of this year's MDRS mission. The flights turned out to cost much less than I'd first thought, and I figured that it was an opportunity that I didn't want to miss

turbo · 2002-11-09 11:55:52

Congratulations Adrian!!!

I'm on the volunteer list as Virtual Mission Support, and will most likely be part of the Science Back Room.

Gotta love it when a plan comes together!!!!

Palomar · 2002-11-09 12:06:02

Well, I bit the bullet and paid for my ticket to SLC - so that means that I'm officially on Crew 3 of this year's MDRS mission. The flights turned out to cost much less than I'd first thought, and I figured that it was an opportunity that I didn't want to miss

*That's great news, Adrian! I'm glad to hear it. Please keep us updated, especially during your tenure.

--Cindy

Josh Cryer · 2002-11-09 13:23:29

Congrats Adrian! That's so cool! I wish I had time for stuff like that! Holy crap.

Adrian · 2002-11-10 13:27:34

Thanks guys I'll keep you all updated while I'm out in Utah, and I'm probably going to do a proper write-up after the trip. Here's the crew list:

Mike Gough is a biologist with the Univ of Washington. He will be crew commander.
Nicole West is a geologist with the USGS
Duncan Galloway is an astrophysicist with MIT. He is Australian
Ella Carlsson is a flight engineer with the Swedish Air Force
Adrian Hon is a biologist with Cambridge University
Eric Kuttner is a documentary filmmaker.

Shaun Barrett · 2002-11-10 18:40:28

Please add my belated congratulations also!

I think it's absolutely brilliant, too. I wouldn't have the nerve to do it, even if I had the required qualifications ... I'd be too scared in case I screwed up and ruined the mission or something!

I think Josh eloquently summed up the excitement of this great news:-
"Holy crap. " !!!

There's no doubt about it, Josh and Shakespeare just have that certain way with words!

Byron · 2002-11-11 16:41:13

Adrian, I wish you the best out in Utah...you'll have the time of your life! Instead of just talking about it like the rest of use, you'll be living it...! You're one lucky fellow...

Can't wait to hear about your experience....

B

Adrian · 2002-11-26 15:31:33

Yup, it should be fun I'm flying out on December 6th, so you guys had better behave yourselves here!

I'm in the planning stages of two research projects - one microbiological and one psychological, which could yield some useful results. More on that later.

I'm also intending to set up a New Mars minisite for my stay in the MDRS - maybe newmars.com/desert - with a daily-updated photo diary.

Palomar · 2002-11-26 16:47:19

I'm in the planning stages of two research projects - one microbiological and one psychological, which could yield some useful results. More on that later.

*Hmmmm. That's the 2nd time today, Adrian, that you've mentioned training in psychology.

Just ::what:: sorts of notes have you been taking on the persons who frequently post here? Are these message boards part of a private conspiracy to plumb the depths of psyches of space enthusiasts and Mars Society members?? ???

--Cindy

soph · 2002-11-26 17:12:25

oh no, theyre coming for me! i need a job before i can pay for a membership ???

good luck in Utah

Adrian · 2002-11-26 17:44:58

Private notes on board members? Online ethological study? I don't know what you're talking about, but don't worry, the men in white coats will be here very soon to take you all away

I've been studying various aspects of psychology and neuroscience for the past two years at Cambridge, so I'm taking the opportunity to mix psychology with Mars (my two great interests) with my trip to the MDRS.

Bill White · 2002-11-26 21:02:31

I've been studying various aspects of psychology and neuroscience for the past two years at Cambridge, so I'm taking the opportunity to mix psychology with Mars (my two great interests) with my trip to the MDRS.

Before my wife and I had our second child - a delightful, loving, willful, challenging 2 year old boy - we owned and raced a 33 foot sailboat. I guess I traded a boat for a boy.

Anyway, after repeatedly spending three or four days on 33 feet of fiberglass with 5 or 6 other seemingly sane men and women, I became convinced that sailboats are really amateur psychology labs. Crew relations were always a major headache, although post-race partying usually helped soothe ruffled feathers. As a boat owner, I bought lots of beer in the interests of crew contentment.

Anyway - since the Utah experience will be far far longer than a four day race from Chicago to Mackinac Island - I am eager to read your reports. And, humans to Mars will make your Utah experience seem like child's play.

Adrian, have you read any psych literature on long distance ocean racing? The round the world sailing races confine a dozen men or women to 60 or 70 feet of fiberglass for weeks or months on end in conditions of genuine physical danger. Many teams hire professional psychologists to assist with crew relations.

I have always believed that the following saying - taken from sailing - would readily apply to any Mars mission:

Sailboat racing - hours and hours (or days) of endless boredom broken up by moments of genuine stark terror.

Byron · 2002-11-27 03:54:05

Very interesting, Bill... I've read accounts of what its like to spend a tour of duty in Antarctica, and the psyschological problems that come about from being in that type of environment, but being on a small sailboat on something like a round-the-world race would have to be a pressure cooker, for sure!

Many teams hire professional psychologists to assist with crew relations.

So it's really that bad, huh? What do crews do on those long, RTW races? Do they threaten to kill each other or something?

If there's one thing about human psyschology that I have a hard time fathoming is how a group of close friends and associates can turn on each other with such viciousness when faced with a high-stress, inescapable environment...and perhaps it's a major weakness of mine, but I just cannot abide being "yelled at" or the like AT ALL. If somebody starts going off on me for no apparent reason, there would be a world of woe to follow... ??? Either you treat me nice, or else some very *bad* things might happen...I guess I shouldn't be part of a crew of a RTW race or anything, huh?

This is probably the No. 1 reason why I work at home these days...I wasn't capable of dealing with the office politics, squabbles, the yelling, etc...life is far too short to have to deal with things like that...lol..and I must say I'm far happier being in an environment in which I have full control of who I want to be with, when I want to be with.

So, yes, Adrian, I'd be quite interested in your findings as well when it comes to the crew psyschology, how much fighting/arguing goes on, how people resolve their differences, etc....

B

soph · 2002-12-04 09:30:31

theres a difference, i think. on a trip to mars, the crew could keep themselves busy for as long as they want. there will always be something that can be done. and like zubrin said, e-mails, games, and the like would help to keep the crew happy when they get overworked, or just tired.

chopper206 · 2002-12-08 20:44:21

Hi All,

I've been a member of TMS Canada since last February's AGM at Ryerson in Toronto. I'm not up-to-speed on the latest news, but reading this thread, I can see how pay-your-own-way to HMP would be a real limiter. PCSP has been a challenge over the past few seasons with their budget cuts. HMP ends up chartering a lot from outfits like First Air. This is *big* bucks.

Ironically, I just returned from a 5280-mile trip down to San Diego and back in my Maule. I must be one of the few people in Canada who can actually get to the HMP site under my own steam. After all, it's only another 1250 kms north of here (Baker Lake, Nunavut).

Seeya, ...Orin

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#1 2002-08-26 10:32:05

Re: Bad news for volunteers

#2 2002-08-26 22:04:23

Re: Bad news for volunteers

#3 2002-08-27 06:39:59

Re: Bad news for volunteers

#4 2002-08-27 08:47:38

Re: Bad news for volunteers

#5 2002-10-06 08:20:58

Re: Bad news for volunteers

#6 2002-11-09 11:35:14

Re: Bad news for volunteers

#7 2002-11-09 11:55:52

Re: Bad news for volunteers

#8 2002-11-09 12:06:02

Re: Bad news for volunteers

#9 2002-11-09 13:23:29

Re: Bad news for volunteers

#10 2002-11-10 13:27:34

Re: Bad news for volunteers

#11 2002-11-10 18:40:28

Re: Bad news for volunteers

#12 2002-11-11 16:41:13

Re: Bad news for volunteers

#13 2002-11-26 15:31:33

Re: Bad news for volunteers

#14 2002-11-26 16:47:19

Re: Bad news for volunteers

#15 2002-11-26 17:12:25

Re: Bad news for volunteers

#16 2002-11-26 17:44:58

Re: Bad news for volunteers

#17 2002-11-26 21:02:31

Re: Bad news for volunteers

#18 2002-11-27 03:54:05

Re: Bad news for volunteers

#19 2002-12-04 09:30:31

Re: Bad news for volunteers

#20 2002-12-08 20:44:21

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