RAS says UK should reverse astronaut ban

Tim · 2005-10-19 10:48:22

About time, lets hope the government listens to them.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4351688.stm

UK should 'reverse astronaut ban'

The UK should rethink its policy ban on astronauts, a report written for the Royal Astronomical Society (RAS) says.
The report warns Britain risks being isolated on the international stage if it continues its longstanding refusal to fund the human exploration of space.
The RAS expert panel says the cost of joining other nations with astronaut programmes could be some £150m a year.
But the scientific, educational and economic benefits would be worth it, it argues.

"Recent developments across the world strongly suggest that, after a 30-year lull, space-faring nations are gearing up for a return to the Moon and then to Mars," said panel member, Professor Ken Pounds, of the University of Leicester.
"It is hard to imagine that the UK, one of the world's leading economies, would not be fully involved in a global scientific and technology endeavour with such strong potential to inspire.
"We therefore recommend that the government re-evaluates its longstanding opposition to British involvement in human space exploration."
Scientific merits
Current policy only allows for tax payers' money to be spent on robotic missions, which means the UK, although a member state of the European Space Agency (Esa), gives no funds to Esa's astronaut corps.
Those UK-born individuals who have made it into orbit recently, such as Michael Foale and Piers Sellers, have done so by taking out US citizenship and joining the American space agency (Nasa).
As well as space physicist Professor Pounds, the panel includes Dr John Dudeney, deputy director of the British Antarctic Survey; and Frank Close, a physics professor at Oxford University, who acts chairman.
Their nine-month investigation into the scientific merits of having British astronauts finds "compelling" reasons to change present policy.
The men say robotic missions to the Moon and Mars can answer many of the questions we want to ask about the origin of the Solar System and the evolution of life within it - but machines do not yet have the ingenuity and flexibility of people.
"Humans are good at making decisions that are impossible to predict ahead of time," said Dr Dudeney.
"They can deviate from assigned tasks and kick over a rock just because it's a different colour and looks interesting. But there is a symbiosis between machines and man; it's not one versus the other, it's about what they can do together."
Industrial rewards
The panel believes the industrial and educational rewards from joining other nations on manned missions beyond low-Earth orbit in the coming decades could be huge.
Dr Dudeney explained: "The UK is the fourth largest economy in the world. We have an amazingly rich and diverse capability in engineering and science; we have an enormously powerful capability and it could be used in this context to great effect."
Professor Close said his interest in science as child was inspired by the Sputnik satellite and the children of today could be similarly enthused by human spaceflight.

The current Esa vision sees astronauts on Mars in the decades ahead
"If space science fiction is ever going to become science fact, now is the time," he said.
"And there's a natural challenge: the Moon is there, Mars is there. They can be reached by spacecraft, so let's explore them."
The panel members say they commenced their study with an element of scepticism on the scientific value of human involvement in space, but as they took more evidence and looked deeper into the issues they were persuaded the UK could play a role.
"We're talking about human spaceflight that is science driven, but which would have these other, wider and impressive benefits," said Professor Pounds.
"If it has an inspirational effect on education by getting more kids going into science, if it gives interesting challenges to industry so that it draws the brightest graduates, that has to be good for the UK and science in the UK."
As part of its fact-finding exercise, the RAS panel tested public opinion through the BBC News website.
An analysis of responses to a Have Your Say debate found 61% were in favour of the UK having its own astronauts, 26% were against and 13% were undecided.

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Grypd · 2005-10-19 14:48:07

The problem with the UK is that though we have great ideas we just dont back them up with funds and determination. We had a space program a true to god independent one it was cancelled just a few years before the great age of satelites. We invented the silo system to protect nuclear missiles but only built one we cancelled the program. The USA and USSR though copied the idea and theres are still in use. We had designs for super rocket powered fighters but due to bribery and lack of commitment this went away too. Dont get me on about all the planes and designs that came up from TSR to HOTOL all unsupported.

Recently the Beagle was an example of too little funds too late and so it failed. Our commitment to ESA is hardly a solid one. What should we do either hoist our colors up the mast or decide we are not going to be an innovator anymore.

publiusr · 2005-11-03 10:45:26

More here:

http://www.ras.org.uk/index.php?option= … 7&Itemid=1

http://www.ras.org.uk/

SpaceNut · 2005-11-07 09:47:11

With this the EU is also stepping up actions on many fronts with the klipper and so much more.
This article details some of these actions.
[url=http://www.isn.ethz.ch/news/sw/details.cfm?ID=13412]EU, Russia launch strategic space cooperation
The EU is hoping to benefit from Russia’s vast know-how in the field of space exploration, while Russia, in return, is hoping to get its ailing programs back in orbit with EU funds in a deal that could have complex geopolitical ramifications.[/url]

Also in light of recent Russian Chinese agreements this is really shaping up things quickly for further partnership projects.

publiusr · 2005-11-10 14:39:17

I wonder if Russia could have Japan and China come together on a few things.

Austin Stanley · 2005-11-11 01:57:50

I wonder if Russia could have Japan and China come together on a few things.

I doubt it. For numerous reasons those 3 countries realy don't like one another.

GCNRevenger · 2005-11-11 07:57:42

The Japanese treated the Chinese about as well as Nazis did Jews and Jypsies back in WW2 days, which I very much doubt that China has forgotten.

Grypd · 2005-11-11 15:26:37

Add to the fact that theoretically Russia and Japan are still at war and the Russians are still occupying Japanese islands.

Add to that the current Japanese prime minister and his ministers often visit a shrine to war dead which holds memorials to a few of the war criminals of Japan.

Add to the Japanese suspicion of the threat that China is currently becoming.

Add to this the current economic war between China and Japan especially to ensure regulat supply to the oil flowing from a new pipeline from Russian siberia.

So in effect not a hope of there being a unified space organisation between these groups.

SpaceNut · 2005-12-07 14:05:43

Analysis: Europe's roadmap for space

After a day and a half of deliberations, ministers from the 17 member states of the European Space Agency (Esa), and Canada, finally signed off the budget that will shape Europe's space efforts until the end of the decade.
As always, there were winners and losers among the raft of proposals Europe's scientists and engineers had pinned their hopes on.

With that please read all, see what has and did not get funding for the ESA...

Stormrage · 2006-02-05 07:02:20

I don't think UK should fund astronauts if they come from military background. I am all for civilian astronauts. I don't want ESA to become like NASA where it is next to impossible to join them has an astronaut if you haven't served the Air Force for 30 years.

GCNRevenger · 2006-02-05 14:51:19

The fact of the matter is, that barring a space elevator or a spaceplane with several dozen seats and airline-like reliability, almost nobody is ever going to go into space.

Secondly, space travel being so hyper-expensive, only the government can really afford regular travel, and such an expense cannot be justified unless there is some bennefit for the sponsor state.

Third, in order to maximize the return on such an investment, and to minimize the risk, you would obviously want to use the best qualified individuals available for the crew.

The men and women of the USAF are generally very experienced with flight, some with experience in high performance flight, and all of them are known to the government. Also, their psychology is better suited to doing their jobs despite hazards or crises, which are common to both space flight and combat, as well as being used to doing unpleasent things for their jobs.

So, using air force or navy personel makes perfect sense for vehicle crews whenever possible. So long as spaceflight is the business of governments, then selecting the best people for the whole country takes precident over the opportunity for any one individual citizen to go up.

cIclops · 2006-02-05 16:14:22

I don't think UK should fund astronauts if they come from military background. I am all for civilian astronauts. I don't want ESA to become like NASA where it is next to impossible to join them has an astronaut if you haven't served the Air Force for 30 years.

Untrue. Many of NASA's astronauts have no military background at all. Take the last Shuttle mission STS-114 for example, the crew were:

Commander Eileen Collins - USAF
Pilot James Kelly - USAF
Mission Specialist Wendy Lawrence - USN

Mission Specialist Soichi Noguchi - civilian (Japan)
Mission Specialist Charles Camarda - civilian
Mission Specialist Steve Robinson - civilian
Mission Specialist Andy Thomas - civilian

Their bios are available here

SpaceNut · 2006-02-05 20:43:21

True not all the crew where military but how much or how many are really needed to protect the US interest in the shuttle and of the ISS for any mission...

Stormrage · 2006-02-07 10:45:57

I don't think UK should fund astronauts if they come from military background. I am all for civilian astronauts. I don't want ESA to become like NASA where it is next to impossible to join them has an astronaut if you haven't served the Air Force for 30 years.
Untrue. Many of NASA's astronauts have no military background at all. Take the last Shuttle mission STS-114 for example, the crew were:
Commander Eileen Collins - USAF
Pilot James Kelly - USAF
Mission Specialist Wendy Lawrence - USN
Mission Specialist Soichi Noguchi - civilian (Japan)
Mission Specialist Charles Camarda - civilian
Mission Specialist Steve Robinson - civilian
Mission Specialist Andy Thomas - civilian
Their bios are available here

I considered The Navy and the Air Force to be military. Expect for the Royal Navy (UK). The reason i considred them to be military is because their jobs means they have to go abroad and kill. Same thing the army does.

Yang Liwei Rocket · 2006-03-20 01:33:33

good for Europe, I liked some of the ESA's manned ideas but they are stuck having to hitch a ride from the Russians and Americans.

publiusr · 2006-03-23 15:32:53

OURAL may be a distraction they cannot afford. Ariane M might actually be less expensive.

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#1 2005-10-19 10:48:22

Re: RAS says UK should reverse astronaut ban

#2 2005-10-19 14:48:07

Re: RAS says UK should reverse astronaut ban

#3 2005-11-03 10:45:26

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#4 2005-11-07 09:47:11

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#5 2005-11-10 14:39:17

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#6 2005-11-11 01:57:50

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#7 2005-11-11 07:57:42

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#8 2005-11-11 15:26:37

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#9 2005-12-07 14:05:43

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#10 2006-02-05 07:02:20

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#11 2006-02-05 14:51:19

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#12 2006-02-05 16:14:22

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#13 2006-02-05 20:43:21

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#14 2006-02-07 10:45:57

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#15 2006-03-20 01:33:33

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#16 2006-03-23 15:32:53

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