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#1 2005-11-04 03:07:06
- Martin_Tristar
- Member
- From: Earth, Region : Australia
- Registered: 2004-12-07
- Posts: 305
Re: Treating Space like the first trappers in history past
We should look at the processes for space like the 1800's American Trappers. When we go into space we should reuse everything we take into space and making sure we design spacecrafts or spacecraft components to have dual roles.
This first helps us expand into space for a long term basis for humanity, second to recycle our waste into something useable and third to reduce the overall costs for contiunal development in space.
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#2 2005-11-04 03:24:27
- Rxke
- Member
- From: Belgium
- Registered: 2003-11-03
- Posts: 3,669
Re: Treating Space like the first trappers in history past
I voted for the second. Making *everything* dual-purpose is simply impossible or dang-near impossible (read: expensive or taking too much time to develop)
Also, DIY recycling `scrap`is all fine and dandy if you have spare time, lotsa tools, spare place etc... All thing that initially will be in short supply.
Do not expect the second mission to be able to jury rig a fuel plant out of old lander gear. Except when it was designed to be one from the start (modular; interchangeable stuff, not needing much man-hours in a clumsy suit to get it going...)
It sure is the way to go, eventually, but it isn't simple. We still lack a lot of 'on the surface' engineering experience for that kind of things. No piece of hardware that has been on Mars or Luna for an extended period time has made it to Earth for examination of how good or bad materials can stand the rigours of just being there for starters. (Some surveyor stuff has, but that's far from enough to extrapolate, IMO. )
Edit: OTOH, the stunning success that the rovers are, makes me feel more confident we *can* built stuff that can keep functioning in a dynamic way on Mars. Before that there were all kinds of nightmare scenarios about the 'fines' (microscopic dust) clogging up anything that moves, rotates,... But so far it looks like JPL has found some good ways round those issues 
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#3 2005-11-04 17:50:45
- Dook
- Banned
- From: USA
- Registered: 2004-01-09
- Posts: 1,409
Re: Treating Space like the first trappers in history past
Recycle everything? Virtually impossible. Some things would be easy to melt down (plastics, aluminum) but units able to melt steel, glass, titanium, would consume enormous amounts of power. Also you need a lot of chemicals to separate and process the metals to make them pure. The air filtration and purification and cooling system for these areas would be gigantic. Think of all the specific manufacturing that goes into a computer. You couldn't hope to have everything needed to grow, machine, assemble every component.
The best way is to recycle those things that provide the most benefit for the least amount of effort like the following:
-100% water recycling.
-very energy efficient CO2 to oxygen converters
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#4 2005-11-04 18:25:54
- idiom
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- From: New Zealand
- Registered: 2004-04-21
- Posts: 312
Re: Treating Space like the first trappers in history past
You could build everything out of very expensive Mecano?
When you're done with it just pull it apart and everything is made out of nice standard units.
Come on to the Future
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#5 2005-11-04 19:23:47
- Commodore
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- From: Upstate NY, USA
- Registered: 2004-07-25
- Posts: 1,021
Re: Treating Space like the first trappers in history past
Never underestimate the enterprising human can do with enough duct tape. 
Early missions are going to be heavily scripted. Its a decade or two in when we have permenently manned bases and roving caravans of prospecting explorers going that I can really see the really pure exploration kicking in.
"That old tank has got to be here somewhere. I can feel it. 33 tons of pure aluminum calling my name." 
"Yes, I was going to give this astronaut selection my best shot, I was determined when the NASA proctologist looked up my ass, he would see pipes so dazzling he would ask the nurse to get his sunglasses."
---Shuttle Astronaut Mike Mullane
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#6 2005-11-04 21:18:07
- SpaceNut
- Administrator
- From: New Hampshire
- Registered: 2004-07-22
- Posts: 29,438
Re: Treating Space like the first trappers in history past
If I recall my recycling info it was that it uses less energy to make from previously processed materials than to make them from raw ones. The glass, aluminum. plastics and such all have a dual purpose even if only to be melted down as for steel or titanium I am just not sure that we need them right off anyway. So no worry if we can not make it directly reusuable, pile it up or store it but it will get used at some point down the road.
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#7 2005-11-05 02:39:05
- Rxke
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- From: Belgium
- Registered: 2003-11-03
- Posts: 3,669
Re: Treating Space like the first trappers in history past
cue heated debates by settlers that want to go into politics about which pieces can't be recyced because they belong to the Mars heritage...
"I don't care we're choking, those tanks belong to our museum!!!" 
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