The Evolution of Evolution

SpaceNut · 2005-10-14 20:10:55

Well it is all in the genes as it were and scientist believe that taking a trick out of the pages of the extreme life forms here on Earth may when intergrated to other spicies allow for plants to survive the martian climate.
Bacterial genes could put plants on Mars

Biologists have embarked on a project to engineer plants that could withstand the harsh environment of Mars, using genes from hardy bacteria that thrive around deep-sea vents on Earth.
It is one of the schemes given further funding by the NASA Institute for Advanced Concepts, which promotes futuristic ideas on the leading edge of innovation.
Humans would need oxygen, food and some form of carbon dioxide removal system to live on Mars. In theory, this could be achieved using plants, and it would be less expensive than constructing habitats to simulate the Earth.
But those plants would need to be able to cope with the stress of living in the extreme temperatures of Mars, and the planet’s higher radiation levels. So Wendy Boss and Amy Grunden at North Carolina State University in Raleigh, US, are examining whether plants could be altered by harnessing micro-organisms that live in extreme environments on Earth

SpaceNut · 2005-10-18 11:25:32

Well Evolution has just got a wrinkle to it being plant or animal and how we are different from each other. This one is both
Half-Animal, Half-Plant Microbe Found

Japanese scientists have found a mysterious marine microbe, half of which cells eat algae like animals while the rest perform photosynthesis like plants.

This maybe the missing link to transition from one to the other or maybe not but it sure is interesting.

SpaceNut · 2005-10-31 21:30:15

As we have tried to map the tree of life here on Earth with respect to creatures having DNA we have come up with many a missing branch, missing link or life that has fused into it as unique branches until now.

A question that I know I have posed appears in the article :

"To get to DNA life you had to go through non-DNA life, which we no longer have," Ward said. "But just because a type of life goes extinct doesn't mean you don't classify it. Otherwise you wouldn't have dinosaurs on the tree of life. And until now there hasn't been any place to put RNA life."

New Book Expands Biological Classifications to Account for Alien Life

Among them are viruses, long considered to be non-living bits of protein and nucleic acid but which Ward argues are as alive as the many parasites that infect humans and other organisms. The revamped classification system also would include life based on RNA instead of DNA, and life found away from Earth that likely would be based on silicon or elements other than the carbon-hydrogen-oxygen-nitrogen mixture that is the backbone of life on Earth.

So the new classification would be RNA based:

In the current popular classification system the highest levels are three domains - bacteria, archaea and eukarya, the last of which includes all animals. Ward's plan places those three domains within a larger dominion, which he calls "terroan" to signify Earth origins. Another dominion he calls "ribosa" because it is based on ribonucleic acid, or RNA. Other dominions could be formed to cover life discovered to have a different base than DNA or RNA.
The dominions would be placed within broader classifications called "arborea," which contain life that does not mix with that of other arborea. The Earth arborea would contain all life forms found on this planet and other arborea would contain life found away from Earth.

Why do we need such a new class:

The new system is already necessary, he said, because "alien" life has been created in laboratories on Earth. That includes microbes with at least one amino acid beyond the 20 in the DNA of native Earth life, or organisms that have been genetically modified, Ward said. It also includes some life forms that have been modified to be much simpler than what is normally found on Earth.

showtime17 · 2005-12-06 16:47:18

I am going to post a bit off the direction that this topic has been heading. One argument that creationists use against evolution is how things like an eye or blood-clotting could have evolved. That it's impossible. However scientists have proposed several ways. If anyone is interested, I am posting some links...

blood clotting evolution
http://www.millerandlevine.com/km/evol/ … tting.html

evolution of eyes
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/evolution/libra … 11_01.html

http://www.maayan.uk.com/evoeyes1.html

SpaceNut · 2006-06-07 07:33:45

The process of evolution is one where it takes time to allow for change.
It Takes Energy To Make A Species

We've shown that there is indeed a higher rate of evolutionary change in the form and structure of plankton in the tropics and that it increases exponentially because of temperature," said James Gillooly, Ph.D., an assistant professor of zoology with the UF Genetics Institute. "It tells us something about the fundamental mechanisms that shape biodiversity on the planet."
Speciation - when animals or plants actually evolve into a new species - occurs when life forms with a common ancestor undergo substantial genetic change.

So global warming is good for deversity of life.

There has been times when mother Earth has not been so warm, ice age and even snowball Earth about 2 to 3 bllion years ago.
Study shows our ancestors survived 'Snowball Earth'
Not sure that I would feek taht sinhle or multi cell organisms are much of an ancestor.

Ancient DNA Sequence Allows New Look At Neandertals Diversity

Neandertals were the only representatives of the genus Homo in Europe during most of the last 300,000 years, becoming extinct shortly after the arrival of modern humans on the continent around 30,000 years ago. Traces of mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) sequences still present in fossilized bones have been used in past studies in an effort to identify and track the potential genetic legacy of Neandertals among modern Europeans.
Though such genetic continuity would have been the hallmark of interbreeding between modern humans and Neandertals at the time of their European coexistence, the mtDNA sequences from the nine neandertal specimens that have been analyzed to date – and that lived around the time of the cohabitation period – do not match those found among modern humans, suggesting that little, if any, interbreeding took place.

Earthfirst · 2006-06-08 12:32:53

Darwin was crazy and his ideas on evolution are wrong. Everying you need to know is in the bible. May Darwin burn in Hell fires forever.

SpaceNut · 2007-06-15 05:59:03

Wow reviewed the thread and found I had posted about this in late 2005. Gee time does fly but science seems at a crawl and lets not forget the new media seems to like repeating.

Weird biology - algae that is both plant and animal

Mixotrophs are species of algae that act as "plants" when they produce their own food and as “animals” when they eat other plants

dicktice · 2007-06-15 19:11:38

Darwin was crazy and his ideas on evolution are wrong. Everying you need to know is in the bible. May Darwin burn in Hell fires forever.

Sorry, Earthfirst--but your expressions of extreme ill will towards Darwin and his ideas on evolution should have been submitted in Chat, instead of Science and Technology, under Religious Claptrap.

publiusr · 2007-06-23 12:33:01

After all, you probably tell your kids "God made you" but you omit the lengthy biological process that goes into that because she isn't ready to take in that level of info about said process.

As below, so above.

I think one reason many folks have a problem with evolution is that folks still remember the warm pond model, where things just kind of happened--and scientists were just trading in one miracle for another. Add that to the fact that many skeptics are libertariansd who cheer Kit vs Doveer, (and then try to destrry public education) leaves people with the idea of the scientist as the puffy shirt wearing member of some old hellfire club who looks down on hardworking people of faith (who believe in fairness) with disdain.

Eden as it were (even as metaphor) was a break from Darwin. I think people want a little intel design in gov't at least, and not social darwinism. R-7 worked for spaceflight, and the alt.spacers have toys---but I digress.

Survival of the fittest just rubs folks the wrong way--and we are better than random nature.

I think evolution would work better if someone besides Darwin had championed it--and if it had come with the discovery of smokers on the sea floor.

Imagine this setting. Old mystics talk about spontaneous generation. You point out that is a bit too fast (the salmander just jumped out of the log) But you say they aren't too far off the mark.

The smokers are the alembics of the deep--the flasks of nature as hermes trismegistis-to the technocrat, they are cracking stations, fractionating towers, to the believer, they are the engines of Creation.

This active chemosynthesis model is easier to take than a warm pond where things just happen.

Life as natures industrial byproduct.

One theory I have on my mind...I remember seeing an early photograph of the Xenia Ohio F-5 tornado. It had two suction vortices in a double helix formation, and in a lter fram, one of these even had a small suction twin to the side.

This all reminded me of DNA, RNA unwrapping, etc.

Here is my model. Tou have a string of organics in an up draft and DNA formation by mechanical means from vortices coming out from an updraft. If the smoker is shaped a certain way, vortex formation could be enhanced. You simulate such a model in a lab, then scan it.

When the Europa cryobot finds smokers, it scans for one with such vortex forming geography, and single that one out for closer inspection.

Thoughts?

publiusr · 2007-11-09 11:29:06

I guess not...

noosfractal · 2007-11-14 02:38:27

Thoughts?

Beautiful writing. Usually you're very brief.

I'd go as far with you as envisioning DNA helix forming in a physical vortex. Once the proteins of the right type exist, they naturally curl into that shape. Having a cell with all the machinery that replicates them so perfectly is another matter.

One thing that I find helps is to watch crystals grow (e.g., crystals of different salts). Most people think of crystals as not alive, but they obviously self-replicate - the presence of one crystal determines its neighbor - and the shape of the crystals reflects the underlying atomic structure. it's easy to imagine complex and shifting (self-replication + natural selection = evolution) crystalline structures around ocean thermal vents serving as a catalyst and physical pattern for protein formation and eventually self-replicating proteins (you don't need the full machinery at first, something much more viral will do). After that, well, evolution (but not the details or particular forms of evolution) is inevitable.

Mars_B4_Moon · 2022-08-09 11:22:36

New missing links will be found

‘Hobbit’ discovered in Indonesia challenges evolutionary theory
https://www2.ljworld.com/news/2010/mar/ … olutionar/

Europe's oldest human fossil found in Spain
https://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/62135614
In fact, they think the jawbone is so old, it doesn't belong to the current Homo Sapiens human species but to that of an older extinct ancestor!

Ancient DNA links an East Asian Homo sapiens woman to early Americans
https://www.sciencenews.org/article/hom … -americans

These Prehistoric Inventions Launched Humanity’s Technological Revolution
https://www.gizmodo.com.au/2022/08/thes … evolution/

while

the machine man of Frankenstein, Terminator and robo dog is becoming a less scary creature

Are we falling in love with robots?
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-62007675

Mars_B4_Moon · 2022-09-03 05:45:53

To Prevent a Martian Plague, NASA Needs to Build a Very Special Lab

https://www.yahoo.com/news/prevent-mart … 31620.html

Mars_B4_Moon · 2023-03-29 13:20:57

World’s first case of human infected with deadly plant fungus reported in India

https://www.thesun.co.uk/health/news-he … nt-fungus/

Social media stories going viral, a man in a Hindu region of India infected with deadly plant fungus in world-first case

The reason for it going viral could be a horror tv show, Cordyceps Brain Infection featured in 'The Last of Us' tv show video game franchise is actually based on a real-life fungal infection that can affect insects.

The science behind the zombie fungus from 'The Last of Us'
https://abcnews.go.com/Health/science-z … d=96819243

Killer plant fungus Chondrostereum purpureum infects man in India in 'world-first case'
https://news.sky.com/story/killer-plant … e-12844978
A killer plant fungus infected a human and caused flu-like symptoms

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#51 2005-10-14 20:10:55

Re: The Evolution of Evolution

#52 2005-10-18 11:25:32

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#54 2005-12-06 16:47:18

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#55 2006-06-07 07:33:45

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#56 2006-06-08 12:32:53

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#57 2007-06-15 05:59:03

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#58 2007-06-15 19:11:38

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#59 2007-06-23 12:33:01

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