Two Weeks on Mars

Adrian · 2002-12-05 08:21:53

Hi all,

For the next two weeks I'll be taking part in a crew rotation at the Mars Society's Desert Research station in Utah. I'll be keeping a daily updated photo journal at http://www.newmars.com/desert, called 'Two Weeks on Mars'. It should be a fun experience See you soon.

Edited By Adrian on Dec. 05 2002 at 14:22

Josh Cryer · 2002-12-05 10:25:41

Wow, that sounds awesome. You have no idea how much I envy you right now. Of course, knowing me, I'd be complaining about all sorts of technical details, and no one would be happy about my presence...

But anyway, I'll look forward to it.

Palomar · 2002-12-05 13:58:33

*Sounds great, and have fun Adrian. I look forward to viewing your daily journal. Be sure to include a photo of yourself in it, somewhere.

BTW, are you guys eating prepackaged food or having stuff catered in? I think you should rough it...go with that freeze-dried packaged stuff.

Which leads us to another question: Will they be called potato chips or potato crisps on Mars?!

--Cindy

Phobos · 2002-12-05 19:45:29

Which leads us to another question: Will they be called potato chips or potato crisps on Mars?!
--Cindy

I haven't heard of fried slices of potatoes being referred to as crisps very often. Is it more common in Britain to call them potato crisps rather than potato chips? Maybe it's common in the Midwest to call them potato crisps?

Palomar · 2002-12-05 20:06:59

Which leads us to another question: Will they be called potato chips or potato crisps on Mars?!
--Cindy
I haven't heard of fried slices of potatoes being referred to as crisps very often. Is it more common in Britain to call them potato crisps rather than potato chips? Maybe it's common in the Midwest to call them potato crisps?

*Call them potato crisps in the Midwest? :0 No, darling...no!

From what I hear, it's the Brits who call "potato crisps" what we Yanks call "potato chips"...and, of course, they call "chips" what we call "french fries."

Non-Yankees feel free to correct me on this.

--Cindy

Josh Cryer · 2002-12-20 17:47:10

Hey Adrian, all.

I just wanted to welcome you back since I'll be gone over the holidays. It's been a pleasure reading your logs. I hope it got the attention it deserved.

And man, if only a real trip to Mars had that much alcohol!

Later all, and happy holidays! (Hopefully the political discussions will have died down by the time I return- they're so addicting, but I think they detract from Mars-discussion! )

soph · 2003-01-02 20:54:18

Its sad that people come to forums just to flame on other people.

Echus_Chasma · 2003-01-03 01:09:49

and im looking foward to see you selected for the next term at MDRS.
You had a point but the way you said it will get you ignored, friend.

Josh Cryer · 2003-01-03 01:46:01

Hey, if I go to Mars I would want it to be as much like Adrian's trip as possible.

But really, his narration was more than likely intended to be fun, rather than technical and boring. You can't really be mad or whatever. People chose to write their journals how they see fit. Your complaints are ineffectual, really.

Echus_Chasma · 2003-01-03 01:54:08

Yeah, what he said.

Adrian · 2003-01-03 07:48:02

In short, what people have already said here.

Obviously the weblog was supposed to be a lighthearted account of what Crew 9 did at the MDRS; what would be the point of doing an official and technical account when one already exists at the MDRS website? The simple fact is, all rotations are essentially like Crew 9's; the official accounts are only a tiny part of the story, and if you'd heard half of the stories that I have from previous crews and people like Frank Schubert (the architect of the Hab, no less!) then you'd realise that a lot of strange stuff goes on in the MDRS. Certainly I know that a previous crew got up to much more dangerous and time-wasting stunts than we ever did. Plus there's the time when a crew had to throw a mentally unstable crewmember out...

Believe me, if it had been possible to do proper science at the Hab, we would have done. Unfortunately, it wasn't possible. We spent most of our time repairing it and running it (a bit like the astronauts on the ISS); for example, Nikki wasn't able to do anywhere near the number of geology experiments she wanted to do because Mission Support had her doing water testing and work in the GreenHab all the time. As for my psych experiments, the crew was so tired after the day's work that I didn't want to risk getting lynched by putting them through an intensive 30 minute memory and intelligence test every night.

Finally, I was quite surprised to discover that Crew 9 was not in fact the crew that has drunk the most at the Hab - according to John Baranaica (sp?) when he ran his kids rotation at the MDRS he found absolutely incredible amounts of beer and spirits around the hab, evidently left from a previous crew.

The fact that the MDRS even exists and that there are a dozen crews going there each year is an enormous achievement. However, it is a real shame that the state of the hab and its support mechanisms precludes doing any serious science. The current crew, Crew 10, for example, have been contending with yet more GreenHab problems, water leaks and a complete lack of hot water. You never get told any of this before you go to the Hab, it never really comes out in the official reports and certainly not in the media. Therefore, I feel justified in criticising the MDRS quite a bit, and I think that my account of my rotation has hopefully been both entertaining and informative in providing a true record of exactly what a crew gets up to at the MDRS.

Adrian · 2003-01-03 08:07:39

Incidentally, I received an email from Gary Fisher yesterday about my Two Weeks weblog. Gary Fisher is the guy in charge of the GreenHab project and so if there's anyone who has a right to be annoyed about the weblog, it's Gary. But he wasn't annoyed, in fact, he said that he enjoyed reading it and found it useful. So as far as I'm concerned, if Gary doesn't have a problem with it, I don't have a problem with it.

clark · 2003-01-03 10:50:47

Sounds like your experience didn't meet your expectations...

Oh I wonder how that applies to planning an actual Mars mission...

and you all thought I was crazy...

What was it like sharing so much personal space?

Josh Cryer · 2003-01-03 11:25:41

They were most likely too inebriated to give a crap. Heh, just kidding.

But wow, that thing needs a serious redesign if it's breaking so much. I told you guys that Mars Direct would be a suicide mission before!

I wonder if a regular member could just... walk up with a redesign and get it accepted. Or would they have to have physical clout in the Mars Society for that to happen?

Adrian · 2003-01-04 09:02:29

Clark: Clearly it will be very important to make sure that candidates for a humans to Mars mission will not only be well aware of what will be involved in the mission, but also capable of handling it. I think that this is currently the case anyway at NASA, and I'm sure it'd be for a Mars mission; but for the MDRS I think communication and information issues could be improved.

I wasn't bothered about sharing the personal space; it undoubtedly helped that I got on with the rest of the crew very well. If I didn't, I'm sure that I would've been driven mad. Considering that bedrooms are essentially only large enough for a bed, you don't have much space of your own at the Hab. Most of your time outside of EVAs and working is spent in the shared area on the second floor, so you're in constant contact with others.

Something I didn't mention in my weblog was Mike's experiment in getting people to display their emotional state via color-coded clips; people would wear different colours depending on how they were feeling and whether they wanted to talk to anyone. It should have some interesting results.

Josh: On 2 or 3% beer? Not likely

I think the thing you have to consider with the MDRS is that it was constructed with economics in mind - after all, the Mars Society is not exactly awash in cash. Therefore, it doesn't exactly have all the best systems and much of the construction work was done by volunteers, who will inevitably not do as good a job as professionals.

I've thought up a few solutions to this - maybe they should considering designating a few rotations each season as 'construction/repair' rotations - this wouldn't preclude science from being done during them, but the crew would have several members who specialise in construction and so they could keep the Hab in top shape for all subsequent crews.

I think that the MDRS people would be happy to listen to any good suggestions although I imagine they might be a bit territorial at first. I also think that the organisational structure of MDRS Mission Support (or lack thereof, some might say) might hold up the implementation of ideas. But then I can't say for sure - if you had an amazing idea then it might get done straight away.

Phobos · 2003-01-04 23:02:58

I think Mr. or Ms. Guest could use a few beers themself to lighten up a bit. God forbid if we aren't allowed to goof off and be critical at times on the way to Mars. I enjoyed reading the weblog and am grateful that Adrian took time to write it when he didn't have to.

PaganToris · 2003-01-05 22:18:25

Yes Phobos is right Adrian didint ahve to write of this he could have just said ok im leaving for a few weeks to a thing bout mars so i thank we should all appriciate the time and effort he took to do this.

Bill White · 2003-01-06 16:10:23

Adrian: I just read the entire weblog and I feel you have given us a very human reaction to being locked up in a tuna can for 2 weeks.

"Doing science" will be very hard - look at Mir and the ISS as examples.

Any thoughts on whether you would have survived 9 months at the MDRS in Utah? 27 months?

Any "new" thoughts on recreational chemicals (alcohol?) for an actual Mars mission? Actually - IMHO - even something like powdered chocolate to allow each crew member a personal indulgence would be quite beneficial.

It seems the crew was very adult about personal space and a "real" Mars crew can be expected to be even more "adult' about such issues - if they are selected and trained appropriately.

I enjoyed your weblog and it certainly gave me a much better sense of what living at MDRS is all about.

And your criticisms all seemed entirely legitimate to me. Finding holes in the MDRS simulation is part of your mission tasking, it seems to me.

Well done!

Adrian · 2003-01-07 10:26:51

Chances are, NASA will not allow any alcohol onboard a Mars mission - as far as I know, that is their current policy as well. Of course, the Russians do things differently, but then I'm talking about NASA here. From their point of view, alcohol would be an unnecessary risk and introduce an element of uncertainty and danger into the safety equation.

Personally speaking, I think it would probably be fine to put a few beers on board a Mars mission, although I'm not sure about strong spirits. Alcohol would undoubtedly help improve morale on a long mission. However, unless you had some mechanism of generating alcohol on board the spacecraft (which is basically not going to happen) I don't think you'd be able to take along much - unless you had some super-concentrated spirit which could last you a while. The problem with that is that it could be seriously dangerous to the safety of the mission, whereas the occasional beer is not going to hurt anyone.

So I doubt that alcohol will be allowed on a Mars mission, although from my perspective it's the logistical issues that are the problem, not safety.

As for chocolate, sweets, etc, I'm sure these would be encouraged and I know that on NASA missions astronauts regularly take up special sauces and treats to make their food and life a bit more interesting.

alokmohan · 2003-11-11 03:10:01

MDRS is useful.

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