Mars Colony in 20 Years !??

MarsDog · 2005-09-21 22:51:26

http://www.cnn.com/2005/TECH/space/09/1 … index.html

All companies set goals, but newly formed 4Frontiers Corp. is eyeing some expansive horizons. The company's mission: to open a small human settlement on Mars within 20 years or so.

Will this develop into a common international goal ?

John Creighton · 2005-09-21 23:38:41

http://www.cnn.com/2005/TECH/space/09/1 … index.html
All companies set goals, but newly formed 4Frontiers Corp. is eyeing some expansive horizons. The company's mission: to open a small human settlement on Mars within 20 years or so.

Will this develop into a common international goal ?

I think they are taking advantage of peoples frustrations and selling hope by providing a portfolio of technologies already developed for NASA to use off the shelf. However since they hold the patents they could try to price gouge NASA. So they may or may not help exploration and they could even be completely inconsequential. Anyway, let us hope they will make postive contributions.

SpaceNut · 2005-09-22 05:07:56

I think they are taking advantage of peoples frustrations and selling hope by providing a portfolio of technologies already developed for NASA to use off the shelf.

When I listened so intently to each of the Aldrige commisions hearings, this same frustration was very evident that Nasa had no intention of using any thing that was not done by Nasa for Nasa. They have even ignored there own research that would allow them to have already gone to the moon, setup colonizes of bases and insitu resource mining.

GCNRevenger · 2005-09-22 05:31:26

Patenting off-the-shelf technologies is a dirty, underhanded, abuse of the civil legal system way to make money. Shame on 4Frontiers.

What are you talking about SpaceNut? There isn't any "NASA's own research that they have ignored." If you are talking about Saturn/Apollo, those old ships just aren't good enough today.

ISRU on the Moon is lots harder then on Mars, since you physically have to find, dig, move, and blast-furnace a particular handfull of minerals, and then that only gives you oxygen. Its not practical nor very benneficial to do that for most missions yet.

clark · 2005-09-22 05:47:32

Correct me if I am wrong, but NASA develops technologies, and then sells the patents (they did this with the Bigelow Hab).

Aerospace companies buy the patents, develop the technology, and then sell it.

Sounds like this is what 4frontiers is trying to do, which is the current program.

I don't think they are doing anything wrong, *yet* (crazy nutters that they are).

RobS · 2005-09-22 08:20:47

It is also not clear 4Frontiers patents will hold up in court. They can't test their technology on Mars, after all, and by the time we get there the technology will have improved so much the untestable equipment may be obsolete.

-- RobS

noosfractal · 2005-10-10 02:05:35

It is also not clear 4Frontiers patents will hold up in court. They can't test their technology on Mars, after all

Martian gravity is the only really difficult thing to simulate though. The ISS doesn't have that ability does it?

Martian Republic · 2005-10-10 10:00:03

http://www.cnn.com/2005/TECH/space/09/1 … index.html
All companies set goals, but newly formed 4Frontiers Corp. is eyeing some expansive horizons. The company's mission: to open a small human settlement on Mars within 20 years or so.

Will this develop into a common international goal ?

About the only thing that 4Frontiers Corp. going to do is to collect patients and bring the idea out into the public that we can colonize Mars. Maybe they can bring that idea to the US Federal Government and get them jump on the idea of colonizing Mars. But, other than that, there is really not a whole lot that 4Frontiers Corp. is going to be doing to colonize Mars and nor would they have the resources to do it either. Even with a dedicated US Government behind this matter, it would still take closer to 40 years to be able to maintain a small colony on Mars, because we have to build the infrastructure to re-supply that Mars colony and we probably can't do that in 20 years.

Larry,

SpaceNut · 2005-10-10 10:25:03

It would seem that all of the societies are in the same boat. In that they can show until they can show no more that all things are possible but without the cash backing, it would seem that will be all they can do.
It appears to be part of the not developed here complex that Nasa appears to have at times.

RobS · 2005-10-10 18:03:14

Equipment will need to be tested in an environment with a wide range of temperatures and other conditions. Gravity may be the least of their problems. It isn't a question of being able to test the equipment on Earth; it's a question of spending the millions of dollars to test something properly that won't get used for twenty years. By then most of the testing will be useless because newer materials will be available with better properties. So they won't have the money or motivation to test their equipment, and someone else with the money will develop something else.

-- RobS

Stormrage · 2005-10-16 05:15:07

Oh sweet jesus you people confuse me. You complain about NASAs slow directionless approach. When alt space companies come along you guys dismiss them (Expect for Elon Musk). Why not give 4Frontier a bit of leniency it's not like we have other options.

Martian Republic · 2005-10-16 10:37:05

Oh sweet jesus you people confuse me. You complain about NASAs slow directionless approach. When alt space companies come along you guys dismiss them (Expect for Elon Musk). Why not give 4Frontier a bit of leniency it's not like we have other options.

SpaceNut,

Most people on this board are obviously a whole lot more older than you are. We have seen schemes like this come and go and then be replaced with a new scheme by private enterprise or individual groups. Some people on this board have even tried to finance private venture for space on this board too and nothing has happened. Now I'm over 50 years old now and I can still remember those Apollo Mission when things were really cooking and the government was financing what happening space and that what made thing happen in space too. Organization like the 4Frontier have come and gone continually over that thirty year period after of the Apollo moon programs ended. These 4Frontier type organization efforts always fall down at the same places in there drive for space, which are:

1. No financing.
2. No customers base could be used to finance there operation.
3. No infrastructure and nor do they have the resource to build them either.

Whither you like it or not, in ten or fifteen year from now when the new kid come in here like you have and they come up with another 4Frontier type organization and say:

We really don't have another choice and we should get behind and give them a chance.

You will be saying the same things that we are saying right now to you and you will be saying it to the new kid. Which is, it will never happen. The problem is, if we can't turn NASA around, there aren't any other serious option or choices out there to do what we want to do in space. They basically are the only game town whether we like it or not or possibly major government with there space agency. It like a race for the America's Cup, which is a race between two ships and when the American first won that Cup. The queen of England asked the question, but who came in second. She was informed, there is no second place.

I hate to inform you, but there is no second option and it doesn't exist.

Now I wish you and those people in the 4Frontier organization well and all. I may even root for you on the side lines, but I'm not going invest my money in it. I may even help you work up project in my spare time for you and your 4Frontier organization, but I don't really expect anything to happen until things change at NASA.

Larry,

GCNRevenger · 2005-10-16 14:30:27

Oh sweet jesus you people confuse me. You complain about NASAs slow directionless approach. When alt space companies come along you guys dismiss them (Expect for Elon Musk). Why not give 4Frontier a bit of leniency it's not like we have other options.

Well its not our fault that none of the AltSpace companies (Elon Musk's SpaceX excepting) aren't pitiful and doomed. No company is currently an option, NASA is pretty much the only game in town for man on Mars.

If AltSpace companies would stop making fools of themselves with wild promises, fervent beliefe that they can cause a paradeigm-shift in costs, and have substantial startup cash (nine digits at least, not a penny less) then we would be in the wrong for being so critical. But, as none of these things has occured (a Mars theme park?), 4Frontiers is just like all the rest, either they're crazy or they're liars.

SpaceNut · 2005-10-17 10:38:59

So what would it take:
In-Situ Resource Utilization (ISRU) for Human Mars Exploration

Focus Areas for Mars ISRU Development
Atmospheric Collection & Processing
Regolith/Water Collection & Processing
In-situ Manufacturing/Construction
In-situ Bio-Support & Plant Growth
2011 -Small scale (1/200) atmosphere processing, including oxygen and methane production and storage.
2013 -Small scale, extract/purify water from top 2m of regolith; process/store oxygen and hydrogen. 2016 -Mid-scale (1/20) extended science or human precursor application mission.
2020 -Small scale regolith processing for manufacturing/construction purposes, if warranted by mass, risk, or cost.
2022 -Large scale (1/5) dress rehearsal of in-situ-enabled launch to at least Mars orbit.
2024 -Deep drilling to ≥3 km if warranted by earlier search for water in 2013 and
2018 opportunities, or substitute a new ISRU demo based upon knowledge
through about 2019.
2026 -Small scale bio-plant demo using water and regolith excavation/processing,
if allowed based upon search for and knowledge of extant Martian life.
Mission also demonstrates capability for low rate production of oxygen for EVA and life support on future human Mars mission

Page 15 details on which missions these are staged to occur.

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#1 2005-09-21 22:51:26

Re: Mars Colony in 20 Years !??

#2 2005-09-21 23:38:41

Re: Mars Colony in 20 Years !??

#3 2005-09-22 05:07:56

Re: Mars Colony in 20 Years !??

#4 2005-09-22 05:31:26

Re: Mars Colony in 20 Years !??

#5 2005-09-22 05:47:32

Re: Mars Colony in 20 Years !??

#6 2005-09-22 08:20:47

Re: Mars Colony in 20 Years !??

#7 2005-10-10 02:05:35

Re: Mars Colony in 20 Years !??

#8 2005-10-10 10:00:03

Re: Mars Colony in 20 Years !??

#9 2005-10-10 10:25:03

Re: Mars Colony in 20 Years !??

#10 2005-10-10 18:03:14

Re: Mars Colony in 20 Years !??

#11 2005-10-16 05:15:07

Re: Mars Colony in 20 Years !??

#12 2005-10-16 10:37:05

Re: Mars Colony in 20 Years !??

#13 2005-10-16 14:30:27

Re: Mars Colony in 20 Years !??

#14 2005-10-17 10:38:59

Re: Mars Colony in 20 Years !??

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