Liquid Water Made Martian Gullies?

Palomar · 2005-08-25 11:52:04

These gullies might indicate underground sites of water, and could be a good place to search for life. Although Mars' environment is too cold, dry and low pressure to support liquid water, it could last a little while as it escaped from an underground reservoir.

"...should be considered as prime astrobiological target sites for future exploration,"..."The gully sites may also be of prime importance for human exploration of Mars because they may represent locations of relatively near surface liquid water, which can be accessed by crews drilling on the red planet..."

In addition, images taken by the Mars Global Surveyor spacecraft show 'geologically young' small-scale features on the red planet that resemble terrestrial water-carved gullies, according to scientists.
"The young geologic age of these gullies is often thought to be a paradox, because liquid water is unstable at the martian surface..."

--Cindy

Rxke · 2005-08-25 12:47:02

Wowza. Read this somewhere else, was going to post, but as per usual someone beat me to it

They sound mightily convinced, no?

*marks this topic for notifications*

Palomar · 2005-08-25 12:58:52

Wowza. Read this somewhere else, was going to post, but as per usual someone beat me to it
They sound mightily convinced, no?
*marks this topic for notifications*

*Yes, they do sound convinced. I'm visualizing Martian explorers drilling and encountering actual water *gushers* -- like oil. Maybe it wouldn't be that dramatic, but...

--Cindy

Rxke · 2005-08-25 15:08:30

These gullies are fresh; they're 500 meters/yards long, they simulated this with fresh water...

That sounds like a good amount of subsurface pressure, can't wait for sept. 5.

CMEdwards, what do you think?

rgcarnes · 2005-08-25 15:48:32

In a somewhat related point, have you noticed how much the most recent images from the Spirit rover at or near the summit of it's hill, seem to show nearby features that look a lot like snow drifts?

If they are, raise temperature slightly and/or combine with surface salts forming a liquid solution and it would run down the hill and perhaps form a gully, ditch, or aroyo, depending on where you are from and your terminology preferences.

There are also features in Opportunity images which suggest to me the presence of water in some form. I realize that conventional, (or consensus) wisdom says that there can be no water present, but believe that there is some awfully simplistic modeling going on to come to that conclusion.

The situation is analogous to the classic "Theoretically bumble bees can not fly" statement when obviously bumble bees do fly and therefore the theoretical model that is referred to is terribly flawed and/or simplistic. The quoted statement says more about the speaker or theoretician than about any truth implied in the quote.

Rxke · 2005-08-26 01:24:15

Spirit's new pics are sand (or rather dust, fines) 'drifts', false color images show it's the regular hematite-like stuff.
But look at Home Plate... Very interesting view, looks a bit like a 'splotch' crater or maybe salt encrustrations from evaporation...
Judging from Steve's reaction, we're going to find out, looks like the scienceteam is REALLY eager to go there.

Oh, and 'Ultreya' is a mere stones throw away, too.

Interesting stuff ahead!

C M Edwards · 2005-08-26 13:18:52

CMEdwards, what do you think?

I think we need Mars Express to go look for water vapor.

I don't agree that the proof is definitive. Might be water, might not. As we saw up close in Endurance crater, flows of very fine dust can mimic water deposition, especially when you lay them over water weathered formations. It could be that any water weathering at that site occured a billion years before the dinosaurs, and the only recent flows are just silt.

If there is water, there will be water vapor. Send in the probe.

Rxke · 2005-08-26 15:08:08

If there is water, there will be water vapor. Send in the probe.

Yes. There should be *some* correlating stuff showing up. Either incresed amounts of [tex:97d8e77dc8]H_2O[/tex:97d8e77dc8] or, who knows... [tex:97d8e77dc8]CH_4, C_2H_6[/tex:97d8e77dc8],... or other hydrocarbon stuff pointing out life...

(Great to be able to use TeX, BTW....)

Palomar · 2005-08-26 15:15:25

[tex:3b6ce7d475]CH_4, C_2H_6[/tex:3b6ce7d475]

*What's up with this Cha-Cha-Cha business? (Ballroom dancing...never mind). Lol!

--Cindy

P.S.:

If there is water, there will be water vapor. Send in the probe

No, send in the astronauts.

Rxke · 2005-08-26 15:28:22

*What's up with this Cha-Cha-Cha business? (Ballroom dancing...never mind). Lol!

Lollerskates!!!111!

But... Wouldn't want to do the Cha-cha-cha with a methane-producing partner, aherm....

Shaun Barrett · 2005-08-26 19:53:31

Rik:-

(Great to be able to use TeX, BTW....)

Hmmm. So TeX allows you to write chemical formulae, eh? That could be handy sometimes. I wondered what it was for.
I tried it but all I got was [tex:00b216f643]C2H4[/tex:00b216f643].
I can't get it to do superscripts or subscripts as you did. How does it work? :?:

By the way, before Josh changed the set-up here, I was able to make links which were part of the text I was writing. e.g. I could write:-
"For a full report, read THIS ARTICLE" and, if you clicked on THIS ARTICLE, you'd get the link.
-- Now I can't figure out how to do that any more. (Actually, I did manage it once by a complex way of typing out all the URL stuff and deleting bits of it and typing in other bits, which took ages - can't remember how I did it now!) This new system we have seems user unfriendly and counter-intuitive to me.
-- Now I just end up saying, for example: "For a full report, click on the following:-
http://www.marssociety.org/",
... which is O.K., I suppose but not as neat.
I guess there's some little trick to it in this new system? Or was the old system just better?

John Creighton · 2005-08-26 23:00:39

Rik:-
(Great to be able to use TeX, BTW....)
Hmmm. So TeX allows you to write chemical formulae, eh? That could be handy sometimes. I wondered what it was for.

What would be really cool is to do a bond diagram of some model. Say a sugar molecule or even octane. I wonder if tex could do that.

I tried it but all I got was [tex:74ca5cd42a]C2H4[/tex:74ca5cd42a].
I can't get it to do superscripts or subscripts as you did. How does it work? :?:
By the way, before Josh changed the set-up here, I was able to make links which were part of the text I was writing. e.g. I could write:-
"For a full report, read THIS ARTICLE" and, if you clicked on THIS ARTICLE, you'd get the link.
-- Now I can't figure out how to do that any more. (Actually, I did manage it once by a complex way of typing out all the URL stuff and deleting bits of it and typing in other bits, which took ages - can't remember how I did it now!) This new system we have seems user unfriendly and counter-intuitive to me.
-- Now I just end up saying, for example: "For a full report, click on the following:-
http://www.marssociety.org/",
... which is O.K., I suppose but not as neat.
I guess there's some little trick to it in this new system? Or was the old system just better?

If you want to see how somone did something in their post just click on the quote button and look at the text.

Shaun Barrett · 2005-08-27 01:45:50

John Creighton:-

If you want to see how somone did something in their post just click on the quote button and look at the text.

I regret to report the above sentence means nothing to me at all.
But thanks anyway!

Rxke · 2005-08-27 02:08:27

just type C_2H_4 ... between the TeX marks, or type it, then highlight and click the tex button.

But TeX can do a lot more.... Problem is, my -real- computer is down, writing this on crummy laptop with weird keyboarlayou that doesnt match the keys, so i won-t go into it now (besides the fact that i'm no TeX wizard to begin with, heehee....)

Shaun Barrett · 2005-08-27 02:38:17

[tex:242091df20]C_2H_4[/tex:242091df20]
It works .. great! (Never would have thought of the "_" button!!!!! Where do you pick up stuff like that?)
Thanks, Rik.

How do you get x squared?

Rxke · 2005-08-27 03:15:51

[tex:bf1f5cb7c8]x^3[/tex:bf1f5cb7c8]

x^3

(took me an awfultime to find the ^ symbol, argh!

Shaun Barrett · 2005-08-27 05:27:06

O.K. So far so good.

What about 10^12 (i.e. 10 trillion)?
In TeX, I get this: [tex:b8225111d0]10^12[/tex:b8225111d0] :?

Rxke · 2005-08-27 05:58:39

[tex:bc70bc0f9a]10^{55}[/tex:bc70bc0f9a]

10^{55}

Hmmm.... offtopic we go....
Well, we ain't rambling 'bout politics, heehee...

Maybe idea for Josh to put up sticky in meta new mars, with some basic examples and some links to TeX

(EDIT: Noooo! This is something for the Wiki instead! Too bad i've a deadline to meet, but soon...)
which is in essence a typesetting tool, very useful for math formula, but also for layouting etc... It beats typesetting capabilities of Word a thousandfold, IMO...

Shaun Barrett · 2005-08-28 05:59:05

Many thanks, Rik!

artsnova · 2005-09-03 19:19:46

Hi Everyone,

Shortly after the press release came out I put up both an almost full frame colorized version of the MGS MOC narrow angle camera view of the crater gullies along with a wallpaper sized version of the gullies closeup shown with the press release.

The URL for the graphic and associated article is:
http://www.marsartgallery.com/o_martiangully.html

On to Mars.

Jim,
http://www.marsartgallery.com

New Mars Forums

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#1 2005-08-25 11:52:04

Re: Liquid Water Made Martian Gullies?

#2 2005-08-25 12:47:02

Re: Liquid Water Made Martian Gullies?

#3 2005-08-25 12:58:52

Re: Liquid Water Made Martian Gullies?

#4 2005-08-25 15:08:30

Re: Liquid Water Made Martian Gullies?

#5 2005-08-25 15:48:32

Re: Liquid Water Made Martian Gullies?

#6 2005-08-26 01:24:15

Re: Liquid Water Made Martian Gullies?

#7 2005-08-26 13:18:52

Re: Liquid Water Made Martian Gullies?

#8 2005-08-26 15:08:08

Re: Liquid Water Made Martian Gullies?

#9 2005-08-26 15:15:25

Re: Liquid Water Made Martian Gullies?

#10 2005-08-26 15:28:22

Re: Liquid Water Made Martian Gullies?

#11 2005-08-26 19:53:31

Re: Liquid Water Made Martian Gullies?

#12 2005-08-26 23:00:39

Re: Liquid Water Made Martian Gullies?

#13 2005-08-27 01:45:50

Re: Liquid Water Made Martian Gullies?

#14 2005-08-27 02:08:27

Re: Liquid Water Made Martian Gullies?

#15 2005-08-27 02:38:17

Re: Liquid Water Made Martian Gullies?

#16 2005-08-27 03:15:51

Re: Liquid Water Made Martian Gullies?

#17 2005-08-27 05:27:06

Re: Liquid Water Made Martian Gullies?

#18 2005-08-27 05:58:39

Re: Liquid Water Made Martian Gullies?

#19 2005-08-28 05:59:05

Re: Liquid Water Made Martian Gullies?

#20 2005-09-03 19:19:46

Re: Liquid Water Made Martian Gullies?

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