Mars ship Needs Radiation shielding

SpaceNut · 2005-08-26 06:13:39

In many a thread the subject of radiation shielding has come up. Simple solutions of using water as a outer jacket of the ships hull and plastics have been mentioned before.

Plastic Spaceships A "designer material" derived from plastic could help protect astronauts on their way to Mars

Say What you say?:

We all use plastic trash bags; they're so common that we hardly give them a second thought. So who would have guessed that a lowly trash bag might hold the key to sending humans to Mars?
Most household trash bags are made of a polymer called polyethylene. Variants of that molecule turn out to be excellent at shielding the most dangerous forms of space radiation. Scientists have long known this. The trouble has been trying to build a spaceship out of the flimsy stuff.

Ok so what type of garbage bag do I use? Well not really:

But now NASA scientists have invented a groundbreaking, polyethylene-based material called RXF1 that's even stronger and lighter than aluminum. "This new material is a first in the sense that it combines superior structural properties with superior shielding properties,"

How much better would this be:

Plastic is an appealing alternative: Compared to aluminum, polyethylene is 50% better at shielding solar flares and 15% better for cosmic rays.

So the challenge now is to use this material in the future? So where does this fit in the CEV developement? When will it be ready for use?

srmeaney · 2005-08-26 07:18:42

Plastic melts in space right? Temperature ranges from extreem heats to colds?

Fine you can have your five hundred cubic metre zero-G lounge. But it still gets jetisoned in Mars Orbit. There you can join them all together to make a big plastic space station...But you are not taking it to the planet.

We are not having polyethelene cluttering the ecosystem.

Cobra Commander · 2005-08-26 07:26:15

Plastic melts in space right? Temperature ranges from extreem heats to colds?

So sandwich it with some other insulating material. Problem solved.

srmeaney · 2005-08-26 07:35:13

Just as long as they dont go making Mars hab/landers from the stuff you make toilet pipes out of...however, If they blow a giant starship from plastic at a Zero-G factory, I will be most impressed.

GCNRevenger · 2005-08-26 11:23:26

Actually no, plastic does not melt in space, not nessesarrily anyway. The Apollo space suits white exterior? Teflon. Inflatable TransHAB? Kevlar. High molecular weight polyethylene is very strong, and is available for joint replacement surgery for instance.

If you were really concerned with it getting too hot, then just spray the exterior with a mirror-finish coating of aluminum a few atoms thick, that would keep the underlying polyethylene frosty cold despite the sunlight.

And frankly Srmeany, people worried about "polluting" Moon/Mars with human garbage deserve to stay on this rock and go extinct.

It would also be swell if you knew simple things about plastic and physics, like polyethylene is not the same as polyvinylchloride used in plumbing pipes.

Commodore · 2005-08-26 11:26:13

So can I reduce the risk of getting cancer by wrapping my house in garbage bags?

The big question is, how much shielding is enough, or how much radiation are we going to tolerate, scientifically or politically?

We have numerous methods ranging from this to lunar bricks, to active electromagnetic shielding. In the long run we should use as many as possible as soon as possible, even on early moon missions, cause eventually were going to need it when we go to the gas giants, and we don't want to be just testing it then.

BWhite · 2005-08-26 12:03:15

I ranted at length about plastic spaceships several years ago right here at New Mars.

Boron doped polyethylene. Not that its my idea or anything. Other people have been writing about the same idea since the 1960s or maybe before. Secondary radiation (or daughter radiation) dangers strongly suggest that crew habs not be fabricated from metal.

Hence the brilliance of TransHab and the wisdom of Bigelow in buying up the intellectual property associated with TransHab.

= = =

Speaking of brilliance, GCNRevenger deserves multiple high rating points for this:

And frankly Srmeany, people worried about "polluting" Moon/Mars with human garbage deserve to stay on this rock and go extinct.

Well said.

Martian Republic · 2005-08-26 13:15:38

Also on that passive radiation shielding, we have to use several layer of different types of material to stop different types of radiation too. So that one of the advantages of the Bigelow space habituate in that it has several layer modifying it for different types of radiation too.

I'm going to bounce another idea out there as a result of these new carbon sheet being generated seventeen feet in about two or three minuets and we can dope it so it can transmit electricity too and this stuff is very thin so it not bulky or waste a whole lot either. I'm thinking of a magnet and a coil wire that generates electricity as you pass that magnet through that coil.

But, can we invert this whole process and use those coil in carbon sheets to generate electromagnetic field like around the Earth and/or act as a capacitor to store energy?

I would like to know if it could both interact with magnetic and/or gravity fields of the Earth, Moon, Mars or the incoming radiation from either the Sun or the interstellar radiation not matter whether it be positive or negative like that coil interacts with that bar magnet to generate electricity?

I know it a tall order and that it a crazy idea, but if we can do any part of that or all of that, that would solve a lot of problems for going into space and staying there. Also it is people that come up idea's like that, that got us where we are right now.

So I'm going to through these ideas out there for any one that want to comment on it discussion on it.

Also, if we did come up with such a theory to do that.

How would you test it to have proof of concept?

Larry

SpaceNut · 2005-09-07 20:42:21

There are a couple of threads where Bigelow's inflatables have been mentioned of which either could have gotten this post.

Inflation Factor: Bigelow Readies Test Module

A test of an inflatable Earth orbiting module is slated for liftoff early next year, bankrolled by a go-it-alone, do-it-yourself entrepreneur keen on providing commercial space habitats for research and manufacturing, among other duties.
Bigelow Aerospace of North Las Vegas, Nevada is readying a test prototype of the firm’s expandable habitat design and looking to launch the hardware in the first quarter of 2006.

Also in a related story:
Tiax tagged to help build better space structures for NASA

Cambridge-based Tiax LLC, a product and technology development firm, is collaborating with ILC Dover and Johnson Space Center to identify, develop and test new materials for building inflatable structures in space.
The Phase I contract was awarded to the three partners by NASA, with ILC Dover as the prime contractor. Financial details of the contract were not released.
Peter Kopf, principal at Tiax, said that the goal is to identify promising technologies and develop them into a new generation of materials that can withstand the challenges of the harsh conditions of outer space. Structures can be bombarded by space debris traveling many times faster than a bullet and are exposed to extreme temperatures and radiation from the sun.
The contract calls for the structures to have the ability to harvest solar energy to power the equipment that they contain, as well as be able to communicate when and where they have been damaged and incorporate mechanisms for self-healing. They also will use nanotechnology for assisting in radiation protection and reducing permeation of the flexible materials for enhanced crew safety.

Gee sort of sounds like Nasa is having a change of heart now that all the developement is nearly done....

SpaceNut · 2015-11-22 22:50:16

So lets combine the use of A new material named RXF1 derived from ordinary household plastic trash bags could help protect astronauts on their way to Mars and fill them with water in the form of something useful.

New Mars Forums

Announcement

#1 2005-08-26 06:13:39

Re: Mars ship Needs Radiation shielding

#2 2005-08-26 07:18:42

Re: Mars ship Needs Radiation shielding

#3 2005-08-26 07:26:15

Re: Mars ship Needs Radiation shielding

#4 2005-08-26 07:35:13

Re: Mars ship Needs Radiation shielding

#5 2005-08-26 11:23:26

Re: Mars ship Needs Radiation shielding

#6 2005-08-26 11:26:13

Re: Mars ship Needs Radiation shielding

#7 2005-08-26 12:03:15

Re: Mars ship Needs Radiation shielding

#8 2005-08-26 13:15:38

Re: Mars ship Needs Radiation shielding

#9 2005-09-07 20:42:21

Re: Mars ship Needs Radiation shielding

#10 2015-11-22 22:50:16

Re: Mars ship Needs Radiation shielding

Board footer