Space Elevator, Ho!

SpaceNut · 2005-08-25 05:11:30

Thanks
That means the description of cable is a rigid, not flex or coiling, but more like a single side of a zipper where the satelite is in the middle and it moves the cable towards Earth to get a payload and extends as it pulls the payload from Earth away. This still means a counter balance of weight must be at the end of the cable facing away from the payload in order to keep the satelite at its correct orbit location as we bring a payload from Earths gravity well.

flashgordon · 2005-08-25 05:24:52

latest space elevator article by Mr Edwards himself.

http://www.spectrum.ieee.org/WEBONLY/pu … 5spac.html

Sounds like a hell of a project and lots can happen between now and the beginning effots just to build it.

The facilities involved even on earth are amazing in themselves. If this ever gets built, humanity will be more connected to one another than ever before. I'm having visions of either the Roman aqueducts feeding millions of romans from a few agricultural fields being fed by the aqueducts to Asimov's foundation novels where he mentions some new 'crazy' technological breakthrough but the 'Roman empire' falls before or shortly after they implement the hugh elaborate system(in the Foundation case it was these anti-gravity elevators on Trantor). Maybe like seeing the size of this project in perspective or seeing how small our earth is compared to the solar system much less the rest of the astronomical structures of the universe, we have to realize that the building of a space elevator will connect all of humanities fate so highly, that what was once viewed as a war is now just like white blood cells taking out bad bacteria; we just have to realize it is part of the dynamics of human civilization to see a group of nations(usually the most powerfull ones at the time) taking out a country we(or they) set up themselves(Suddam Huissaine) but went bad(cancer).

Shaun Barrett · 2005-08-25 07:13:53

SpaceNut:-

That means the description of cable is a rigid, not flex or coiling, but more like a single side of a zipper where the satelite is in the middle and it moves the cable towards Earth to get a payload and extends as it pulls the payload from Earth away.

The cable material isn't actually rigid, as such. In fact, a loose piece of it in your hands would be entirely flexible - perhaps somewhat like a sheet of cellophane, I imagine. But when deployed as an operational Space Elevator cable, it will be extremely taut.
-- This is because it will have many net tonnes of force on it, pulling it upward. In fact, even though the first cable being planned will be thinner than a sheet of paper, you won't be able to move it, bend it, or flex it at all. It will be a strange and counter-intuitive thing to behold - so thin and delicate to look at, but hard as a brick wall!

I'm not quite sure what you're suggesting in the rest of your quote, above, but the cable will not move toward or away from Earth. It will be very firmly attached to the ground-station and remain still, relative to it. The climbers will pull themselves up and down the fixed cable - the cable won't be pulling the payloads.
-- I hope this helps to clarify the situation.

Shaun Barrett · 2005-08-25 07:28:31

Thanks for that link to the Brad Edwards report on the Space Elevator, Flashgordon!
-- As I would have expected, coming from him, it certainly gives a clear and exciting summary of the plans and the current state-of-play.
-- As a matter of fact, there's an eleven-year-old kid I know who thinks Space Elevators are great (yeah, yeah, so maybe I did influence him just a little! ). And I've steered him toward that article today because, when he brought up the subject of Space Elevators at school recently, his teacher made a mockery of the concept in front of the whole class.

I don't understand teachers like that. :!: :?

Palomar · 2005-08-25 07:36:51

And I've steered him toward that article today because, when he brought up the subject of Space Elevators at school recently, his teacher made a mockery of the concept in front of the whole class.
I don't understand teachers like that. :!: :?

*Geez, how sad. It proves the stereotype of uneducated people as being little-minded is false.

It's one thing to disagree, but to ridicule a concept in a manner which humiliates a child before his or her peers? Unfortunately I've known a couple of teachers like that. Educated fools.

Back on topic.

--Cindy

Dragoneye · 2005-08-25 10:06:23

And I've steered him toward that article today because, when he brought up the subject of Space Elevators at school recently, his teacher made a mockery of the concept in front of the whole class.
I don't understand teachers like that. :!: :?
*Geez, how sad. It proves the stereotype of uneducated people as being little-minded is false.
It's one thing to disagree, but to ridicule a concept in a manner which humiliates a child before his or her peers? Unfortunately I've known a couple of teachers like that. Educated fools.
Back on topic.
--Cindy

no that raises a good point, all it means is that people dont like creativity... space travel in the present is all about creativity... "how can we get arround this", or "how can we do that?"

to get people more intrested we need to get things on a level of people wanting space to hurry up so they can beniffit from it.

John Creighton · 2005-08-25 10:24:56

And I've steered him toward that article today because, when he brought up the subject of Space Elevators at school recently, his teacher made a mockery of the concept in front of the whole class.
I don't understand teachers like that. :!: :?
*Geez, how sad. It proves the stereotype of uneducated people as being little-minded is false.
It's one thing to disagree, but to ridicule a concept in a manner which humiliates a child before his or her peers? Unfortunately I've known a couple of teachers like that. Educated fools.
Back on topic.
--Cindy

Or perhaps the teacher was trained rather then enducated.

publiusr · 2005-08-25 12:24:56

I still think it would be best for rocket tubes. A cheap way to apply solar panels in space. I don't think it is elevator material yet.

No getting away from the rocket.

Shaun Barrett · 2005-08-25 17:31:43

Thanks for the feedback on that teacher, folks!
It's good to know everyone feels the same way about that ignoramus. It's one thing to be ignorant of a new concept, as Cindy says, but to ridicule it from a position of ignorance, and at the same time humiliate an enthusiastic child in public over it ... Phewww!! .. I get so upset about things like that. :evil:

Some teacher!

[Sorry. Harping again .. and off-topic again, too.
-- Though I do see Dragoneye's point of view that, in a more general sense, it is a relevant point because it highlights a problem we space advocates are up against every day.]

SpaceNut · 2005-09-01 11:21:32

Who knew that carbon nano tubes are not just for elevators, raise your hands please .

Well alright we propabably all did to some degree. Now we can make electronic components out of the too...

Penn Researchers Take a Big Step Forward in Making Smaller Circuits

the researchers describe their method of using nanotubes tiny tubes entirely composed of carbon atoms -- to create a functional electronic circuit. Their method creates circuits by dipping semiconductor chips into liquid suspensions of carbon nanotubes, rather than growing the nanotubes directly on the circuit.

SpaceNut · 2005-09-15 10:25:47

Another application for where carbon nanotubes can be used:

Texas company demos carbon nanotube TV used as a means to remove a "ghosting," affect.

Admiral_Ritt · 2005-09-16 09:10:44

Well, Interms of Feasability this Concept of elevators has gone thru a new
Stage: The first few being

1) Sheer Fantasy
2) An intractable Engineering problem
3) A project for the late 21st century.

And the next stage were at is feasability studies & materials development.

But one problem remains that I have not heard dissused and solved.

It is related to meteors.

I think the Micrometeorite damage problem is solved by having many redundant
Ribbons. You just replace them after a certain time in space in rotation.

That being said, there are a few strikes by larger meteors on the earth per year that go unoticed by the public, because they explode high up. These larger
bodies are not 1nm in diameter, they are more like the size of small house.

How is your Space Elevator going to handle these larger threats. Unless statistically the threat of a stike on the ribbon mass is not worth worring about.

If these are coming from deep space and are not periodic earth crossers, you could hardly do census of them now can you.

GCNRevenger · 2005-09-16 12:32:32

How is your Space Elevator going to handle these larger threats. Unless statistically the threat of a stike on the ribbon mass is not worth worring about.

It is statistically insignifigant.

The Earth is big, and signifigant impacts are quite rare. The nanotube cable is not big, and the cable has no gravity of its own, so the chance of impact is astronomically low.

The Earth and the Moon both serve as gravitational vacuum cleaners for space rocks too, which makes the chance of a severe impact completly trivial.

SpaceNut · 2005-09-23 20:10:56

Space Elevator Concept Undergoes “Reel” World Testing

The test run, conducted earlier this week, is seen as a precursor experiment intended to flight validate equipment and methods to construct a space elevator. The space elevator would be anchored to an offshore sea platform near the equator in the Pacific Ocean. At the other end in space, the ribbon would be attached to a small counterweight. Mechanical “lifters” -- robotic elevator cars -- would move up and down the ribbon, carrying such items as satellites, solar power systems, and eventually people into space.

So what makes this test so different from all the others.

“If our 23-pound (10.5-kilogram) robot falls from the ribbon…we don’t want spectators to be in the way as it makes a couple thousand dollar crater,” Laine explained.
This week’s testing involved a 12-foot (4-meter) diameter balloon. Safety lines held by team members kept the balloon from floating away. The ribbon dangling from the balloon was made of composite fiberglass, with the robot lifter running up and down the tether.
During the day, the highest altitude reached by the balloon/ribbon/robot combination was 1,000 feet (305 meters).

publiusr · 2005-10-07 09:33:27

I actually heard the Liftport folks on the Radio. I'm glad they are getting some press.

SpaceNut · 2014-01-25 21:33:17

'Space elevator' wins $900,000 NASA prize

To that end, NASA offered $2 million in prize money in a competition called the Power Beaming Challenge, in which robotic climbers, powered wirelessly from the ground, attempt to ascend a cable as fast as possible.

http://www.nasa.gov/offices/oct/early_s … index.html

Now, a robotic climber has made a prize-winning ascent worth $900,000, making it the first to win money in the competition, which has occurred annually since 2005.
On Wednesday, LaserMotive fired up its laser, powering the climber to ascend 900 metres up a cable suspended from a helicopter at Edwards Air Force Base in Mojave, California.

The climber reached the top in just over 4 minutes, for an average speed of 3.7 metres per second. The team's climber repeated the feat at a slightly higher speed of 3.9 metres per second on Thursday.

Tom Kalbfus · 2014-01-29 11:57:43

Just 42,241,000 meters to geosynchronous orbit. At a rate of 3.7 meters per second it would take 11,416,486 seconds to reach orbit or 132.135 days to get into orbit. What do you think of that?

SpaceNut · 2015-11-23 15:55:31

As posted in another topic by Void as its a material update....

Void wrote:

Now here is a pretty little thing. What does it have to do with the topic?
Well, if you could add this to your transparent/tensile tubes, they should have a lot of tensile strength.
http://www.space.com/31180-diamond-nano … vator.html
Diamond Nanothreads Could Support Space Elevator
http://i.space.com/images/i/000/051/663 … 1448059298
The team, led by chemistry professor John Badding, applied alternating cycles of pressure to isolated, liquid-state benzene molecules and were amazed to find that rings of carbon atoms assembled into neat and orderly chains.
While they were expecting the benzene molecules to react in a disorganized way, they instead created a neat thread 20,000 times smaller than a strand of human hair but perhaps the strongest material ever made.
The Penn State University researchers immediately had a hunch that these diamond nanothreads, which are remarkably light and strong at the same time — could prove to be an ideal material for a space elevator, a long cable anchored on Earth and reaching into space to attach to a satellite in orbit.
I recommend reading the whole article. Interesting.
Anyway, I think if it were possible to create a 3D printer to print/weld plastic webs, and to incorporate these diamond nano-threads into it you might have something. I speculate you might want it to have a mouth like a paper wasp, and to be able to weave these threads in. I don't know what deterioration the nano-threads might face being embedded this way. Chemical instability? U.V. damage?
So it has to be though out, but it's an interesting idea.

Tom Kalbfus · 2015-11-25 11:15:21

This is good news!
Diamond Nanothreads Could Support Space Elevator
BY Renee Morad, Discovery News | November 23, 2015 07:32am ET

The molecular structure of the diamond nanothread.
Credit: John Badding Lab, Penn State University
View full size image
Diamonds in the sky might recall a popular Beatles song, but researcher from Penn State University think that's exactly where these diamonds belong.

They discovered a way to produce ultra-thin diamond nanothreads that could be ideal for lifting a space elevator from Earth to the Moon.

Amazing Nano Sculptures Only Visible By Electron Microscope

The team, led by chemistry professor John Badding, applied alternating cycles of pressure to isolated, liquid-state benzene molecules and were amazed to find that rings of carbon atoms assembled into neat and orderly chains.

While they were expecting the benzene molecules to react in a disorganized way, they instead created a neat thread 20,000 times smaller than a strand of human hair but perhaps the strongest material ever made.

The Penn State University researchers immediately had a hunch that these diamond nanothreads, which are remarkably light and strong at the same time — could prove to be an ideal material for a space elevator, a long cable anchored on Earth and reaching into space to attach to a satellite in orbit.

Inflatable Space Elevator Patented

Just recently, a team from the Queensland University of Technology in Australia modeled the diamond nanothreads using large-scale molecular dynamics simulations and concluded that the material is far more versatile than previously thought and has great promise for aerospace properties. The simulation was published in early November.

This intriguing research is laying the foundations for what could someday bring the long awaited space elevator, which was first proposed as a concept in 1895.

Mars_B4_Moon · 2023-12-24 21:32:24

an old topic worth updating

with a post from From Caliban

Calliban wrote:

For minor planets and dwarf planets, a simple cable may be more efficient than a catapult. We can launch material from its surface using an elevator. Provided we extend the cable beyond a synchronous orbit and attach a counter weight, it should remain taught. For the Pluto-Charon system, Charon is actually in a stationary orbit. By extending a cable out from its surface in the direction away from Pluto, we could use it own orbital kinetic energy to launch payloads. Haumea would be an interesting one. It already has a rapid rotion that we can use as an energy source.

the other 'elevator concept' maybe Escalators and Stairways, Ladders, Ramps and Stair lift Mechanical device will be given fancy Star Trek scifi names

Starship Moon Lander Elevator Looks Like a Simple Metal Cage Dangling on a Cable
https://www.autoevolution.com/news/star … 26526.html

Some discussion older of Trains, of Cable-Car, buckets with strings on land and some type of Aerial lift transport

'Trains on Mars - Could a rail system provide martian need'
https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=3501

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2023-12-24 21:37:15)

New Mars Forums

Announcement

#51 2005-08-25 05:11:30

Re: Space Elevator, Ho!

#52 2005-08-25 05:24:52

Re: Space Elevator, Ho!

#53 2005-08-25 07:13:53

Re: Space Elevator, Ho!

#54 2005-08-25 07:28:31

Re: Space Elevator, Ho!

#55 2005-08-25 07:36:51

Re: Space Elevator, Ho!

#56 2005-08-25 10:06:23

Re: Space Elevator, Ho!

#57 2005-08-25 10:24:56

Re: Space Elevator, Ho!

#58 2005-08-25 12:24:56

Re: Space Elevator, Ho!

#59 2005-08-25 17:31:43

Re: Space Elevator, Ho!

#60 2005-09-01 11:21:32

Re: Space Elevator, Ho!

#61 2005-09-15 10:25:47

Re: Space Elevator, Ho!

#62 2005-09-16 09:10:44

Re: Space Elevator, Ho!

#63 2005-09-16 12:32:32

Re: Space Elevator, Ho!

#64 2005-09-23 20:10:56

Re: Space Elevator, Ho!

#65 2005-10-07 09:33:27

Re: Space Elevator, Ho!

#66 2014-01-25 21:33:17

Re: Space Elevator, Ho!

#67 2014-01-29 11:57:43

Re: Space Elevator, Ho!

#68 2015-11-23 15:55:31

Re: Space Elevator, Ho!

#69 2015-11-25 11:15:21

Re: Space Elevator, Ho!

#70 2023-12-24 21:32:24

Re: Space Elevator, Ho!

Board footer