Who would be intrested? -Design a set of vehicles for mars-

Dragoneye · 2005-08-18 08:15:58

I think it would be fun and it would encourage new ideas to the spectrum.

let me know what you think.

Dook · 2005-08-18 08:53:25

Sure, I have a pressurized exploration vehicle design that I submitted a year ago. See Simple Mars Exploration Vehicle thread. Still a few small details to work out. I guess I could come up with a small truck design also.

What other vehicles would you need? Also what are the mass, range, and crew requirements? They would have to work with either Mars Direct or NASA's DRM or some other human exploration of mars plan.

Dragoneye · 2005-08-18 09:13:33

I was thinking:

-air born vehicle (your choice) for long range treks seats 2 with payload equiptment, minimum and must be un/reassembaleable for shipping to and from the planet (just so you dont have to build one there from scratch right away)

-all terrain vehicle, it should be decently rugged to do multi tasking, easy to work on, and seats at least 4 with payload too.

I would leave power scources up to you guys, but remember, this would want to be as realistic as possible so say one design is accepted some where, it could be made and reflected upon basic design specs.

a few things to remember, mars has rugged terrain with lots of obsticles. so you will want the ATV to be able to handle that, and the plane to be able to handle an easy landing (varries on design)

Martian Republic · 2005-08-20 19:30:55

When you say air born I assume we it doesn't go into space and since it has two people and cargo on board, that would eliminate an air plane type craft because the Martian Atmosphere is too thin. So this craft would have to be either a blimp type or a rocket type craft. That the only type that I know that could operate with those guidelines.

Larry,

Dragoneye · 2005-08-22 07:46:37

When you say air born I assume we it doesn't go into space and since it has two people and cargo on board, that would eliminate an air plane type craft because the Martian Atmosphere is too thin. So this craft would have to be either a blimp type or a rocket type craft. That the only type that I know that could operate with those guidelines.
Larry,

yes thats correct, and unless you can figure out alternative means to making it stay aloft.

Personally im going with a decently high speed blimp... it just really makes sence for fitment, reliability, and everything...

as far as the driven vehicle im imagining something close to resemble a SUV/Plow....

if you look at the martian terrain it has a wide spread of rocks all over the surface.... you need something to clear that terrain not to mention you will need to clear the rocks so that you can make paths for other such vehicles and what not for higher speed ground travel.

dryson · 2007-10-27 16:27:39

This military vehicle would be a perfect design for transportation on Mars.

Just remove the cannon turret, add various life support systems, (the BDRM comes already built with a system that creates an airtight vehicle. This system is meant to keep the crew and soldiers carried safe from gas and chemical attacks.) including, heating and communications systems along with equipment suites to use in soil gathering or other expierements and you have the perfect Mars Rover.

Commodore · 2007-10-27 21:41:44

The BDRM were notoriously cramped if I remember correctly. Theres also a fuel issue.

Dragoneye · 2007-10-28 09:09:51

yea they are really cramped, that is a good design for use out there, but it would be better to give it a bit more clearance, and you have to think about the tires since the tires will be a big issue. i've actually been working on a design that would work out there but i'm going to wait to announce any more info on it until i have more work done on it, thus far i have the motors set in it, the frame (all tube frame) and the basic locations of the wheels and the seating area. otherwise i still need to insert all the basic driving components... im' actually going to build it too so i'm designing it pretty accurately.

SpaceNut · 2007-10-28 13:50:40

Good that more than paper is being created with the proces of building the design. I have lots of questions about your design Dragoneye, with respect to how many crew members will it carry, is it presurized, method of powering as well as fuel used, maximum driving distance plus speed, intended life support if any for crew in case of spacesuit damage.....

Dragoneye · 2007-10-28 16:50:45

Good that more than paper is being created with the proces of building the design. I have lots of questions about your design Dragoneye, with respect to how many crew members will it carry, is it presurized, method of powering as well as fuel used, maximum driving distance plus speed, intended life support if any for crew in case of spacesuit damage.....

as far as how many crew members, it will hold 2 in a standard situation but can hold as many as 4 in a case of emergency. yes it is pressureized. as far as the method of powering/fuel being used, that is one of the parts of the vehicle that i wont reveal till later because its still being worked on. as far as driving distance it is capable of unlimited distance, and as far as speed figure a top speed of arround 70-80mph.

dryson · 2007-10-28 19:07:26

The BDRM were notoriously cramped if I remember correctly. Theres also a fuel issue.

Design re-vamp 1.

1a.What about cutting off the portion behind the driver and a-driver section? This would leave this area open for easier access but would still afford the astronaughts with more then enough protection from sand storms.

1b.Instal skirting that can be folded up and down. A good example can be seen by looking at the Sherman tanks from WW II that had water skirting attached to it and then pulled up around the commanders cupola.

This type of skirting would obviously need to be very durable possibly made from aluminum or maybe .125" thick of titaninum but would still need to be able to be ran on a rail system. This would increase the area behind driver a-driver section so they could stand up and move around.

The power source would be the Hydrogen Fuell Cell engine.

The tires would be made from the deployable landing system material that encloses a lander in bubbles and then bounces around.

dryson · 2007-10-28 19:09:43

yea they are really cramped, that is a good design for use out there, but it would be better to give it a bit more clearance, and you have to think about the tires since the tires will be a big issue. i've actually been working on a design that would work out there but i'm going to wait to announce any more info on it until i have more work done on it, thus far i have the motors set in it, the frame (all tube frame) and the basic locations of the wheels and the seating area. otherwise i still need to insert all the basic driving components... im' actually going to build it too so i'm designing it pretty accurately.

Now is the frame going to be steel or aluminum or titanium? With the frame structure don't forget about deciding if the frame will be welded or bolted together.

Terraformer · 2007-10-29 04:50:27

Has anyone considered a vehicle that would glassify the Martian surface? It could first be sent as a probe and would build roads and a landing strip for the astronouts. It could be sent to sites of interest and the crew could just drive along the road. If it isn't to slippy.

Dragoneye · 2007-10-29 06:18:31

yea they are really cramped, that is a good design for use out there, but it would be better to give it a bit more clearance, and you have to think about the tires since the tires will be a big issue. i've actually been working on a design that would work out there but i'm going to wait to announce any more info on it until i have more work done on it, thus far i have the motors set in it, the frame (all tube frame) and the basic locations of the wheels and the seating area. otherwise i still need to insert all the basic driving components... im' actually going to build it too so i'm designing it pretty accurately.
Now is the frame going to be steel or aluminum or titanium? With the frame structure don't forget about deciding if the frame will be welded or bolted together.

for the version i'm making, it will be made of composits since i have to pay attention to weight. but for that version on mars, i'm not sure yet, i'd immagine either aluminum or steel, no reason for it to be made out of titanium.

as far as a vehicle that would "pave" the surface.... honestly the best way to take care of something like that would be to send numerous simple robots with "plow" capabilities. and in all honesty... on mars it isnt exactly a smart thing to stay on the surface, but to actually be underground since those storms are both VERY strong, and last a LONG time. it would only make sense to be able to store everything under ground so perhaps have some vehicles shipped out there pervious to anyone getting out there to dig a hole or at least clean up a previous one for staying in.

Dragoneye · 2007-10-29 09:54:26

Here is what i have so far.

http://www.evforum.net/forums/attachmen … 1193166088

http://www.evforum.net/forums/attachmen … 1193175477

it will be all electric, i see no reason to use any other means of power that is so limited on a distant planet...

hydrogen fuel cells are completely stupid if you research them at all, and see how limited they are. they only produce about 2/3's of the power of gasoline, require lots of power to make, and are limited in range.

in an electric vehicle, there are many methods of powering and running it.

in my vehicle i have a custom made electric motor in there (those cylindars) and the diameter for the main part of the vehicle is 48" so it is a decent ammount of room for 2 people. the wheels are 36" in diameter.

top speed is roughly 60-70mph, range is unlimited (again not going into detail yet), can cary 2 people under a standard situation, and up to 4 under any type of emergency situation. there will be lots of storage compartments on the sides as well. (those bars sticking out the sides will support the "saddle bags"

dryson · 2007-11-03 19:15:09

for starters the vehicle wouldnt need to go 60-70 mph. Heres your first Martian ticket. Slow down son.

The steel composits would add weight to intial launch of the vehicle from earth which would require more money spent on fossil fuel. This also means more pollution. An aluminium frame mixed with titanium reinforcements would be best. The AL/TI (Aluminum = AL Titanium = TI)
structure would also be more resiliant to the corrosive effects of the Martian atmosphere. WIth the winds producing very bad wind storms, a steel body would deteriorate. Think of Mars as a big sand blaster. The steel will flake off when tiny grains of Martian soil hit it. Aluminium and Titanium are less likely to flake in this manner.

I do like the overall structural design of the rover though.

Perhaps a larger crew compartment should be incorporated into the design, extend the rear of the rover back along the x axis maybe ten feet. Make the crew compartment a seperate vehicle with it's own engine.
The rear of the rover would be the equipment storage area. This part of the vehicle could be left behind to conserve the energy of the crew compartment when the crew would use the crew compartment to explore or in case of emergency.

dryson · 2007-11-04 19:52:09

Now Im not trying to put down your idea dragoneye I,m just trying take what you have designed and twist it this way or that to possibly see a new approach to what you have desinged.

Please continue.

SpaceNut · 2007-11-04 20:56:35

What cad software Dragoneye are you using to do the design work in and have you looked at what Nasa is thinking of using on the moon?

Dragoneye · 2007-11-05 07:12:43

for starters the vehicle wouldnt need to go 60-70 mph. Heres your first Martian ticket. Slow down son.
The steel composits would add weight to intial launch of the vehicle from earth which would require more money spent on fossil fuel. This also means more pollution. An aluminium frame mixed with titanium reinforcements would be best. The AL/TI (Aluminum = AL Titanium = TI)
structure would also be more resiliant to the corrosive effects of the Martian atmosphere. WIth the winds producing very bad wind storms, a steel body would deteriorate. Think of Mars as a big sand blaster. The steel will flake off when tiny grains of Martian soil hit it. Aluminium and Titanium are less likely to flake in this manner.
I do like the overall structural design of the rover though.
Perhaps a larger crew compartment should be incorporated into the design, extend the rear of the rover back along the x axis maybe ten feet. Make the crew compartment a seperate vehicle with it's own engine.
The rear of the rover would be the equipment storage area. This part of the vehicle could be left behind to conserve the energy of the crew compartment when the crew would use the crew compartment to explore or in case of emergency.

I thought that i said that further up in my post that the earth bound one that i'm personally building will be mostly of composits and aluminium. but the one out there since usually cost isn't a big thing would be aluminum/titanium...

ok i reread my post and i didn't clarify what i was talking about in there... that steel part of the vehicle would be for most of the interior portions of it and it would be stainless so it wouldn't corrode.

I understand that you dont need a vehicle that goes very fast on the surface, but say they land in an area and want to scope out another area maybe say 2 days away with out using a take off vehicle... going 20mph to go 200 miles would take 10 hours... being able to go 70-80mph *assuming it clears its own path from most rock debris* it would take just under 3 hours.

as far as the crew pod being small this is intended for 2 personell and i'm actually currently trying to make sure that it fits on the roads here in the US so that when i'm in testing i can take it to various places and make sure i dont need to redesign any various parts of it.

I'm sure that the mars version will be almost identicle but i will add a trailor to it for extra storage, power, and anything else to allow there to be more room in the crew quarters.

I'd also really like for the vehicle to be able to do all the work from inside it instead of having to get out every time they need to look at something. so a nice set of robotic arms or something would be nice. but for my version it will be pretty plain mostly to test out the platform more than anything.

Dragoneye · 2007-11-05 07:14:25

What cad software Dragoneye are you using to do the design work in and have you looked at what Nasa is thinking of using on the moon?

Right now i'm using AutoCAD to do the designwork mostly because its very accurate and no i havn't looked at what NASA was looking at using on the moon mostly for personal reasons... the power supply on my vehicle needs a specific housing for it and thus i decided to just design my own vehicle to custom fit it.

dryson · 2007-11-05 18:55:30

I thought that i said that further up in my post that the earth bound one that i'm personally building will be mostly of composits and aluminium. but the one out there since usually cost isn't a big thing would be aluminum/titanium...
ok i reread my post and i didn't clarify what i was talking about in there... that steel part of the vehicle would be for most of the interior portions of it and it would be stainless so it wouldn't corrode.
I understand that you dont need a vehicle that goes very fast on the surface, but say they land in an area and want to scope out another area maybe say 2 days away with out using a take off vehicle... going 20mph to go 200 miles would take 10 hours... being able to go 70-80mph *assuming it clears its own path from most rock debris* it would take just under 3 hours.
as far as the crew pod being small this is intended for 2 personell and i'm actually currently trying to make sure that it fits on the roads here in the US so that when i'm in testing i can take it to various places and make sure i dont need to redesign any various parts of it.
I'm sure that the mars version will be almost identicle but i will add a trailor to it for extra storage, power, and anything else to allow there to be more room in the crew quarters.
I'd also really like for the vehicle to be able to do all the work from inside it instead of having to get out every time they need to look at something. so a nice set of robotic arms or something would be nice. but for my version it will be pretty plain mostly to test out the platform more than anything.

Why not make the whole frame one alloy?
Aluminum for the inside and a titanium hull?

This type of structural design would increase the overall speed to around 40 MPH. The steel would add considerable weight to the overall structure.

Here's a thought as well. Instead of wantiing the vehicle to get there faster, add the trailer to the vehicle, the items that would have been stored in the vehicle which are now being towed would free up that amount of space in the vehicle. This added space could be used for a place for one of the astronaughts to sleep on while the one drives. That way the journey could run non-stop from point A to point B.

Why wouldn't you want to get out and walk on the surface of Mars? Thats part of the reason for being there. To sit in the crew cab and let a robotic arm do the job would be defeating the purpose of being there in the first palce.

Dragoneye · 2007-11-05 19:11:43

well for the arms... i was going to suggest them on there for helping to clear a good path. i dont know how many pics you've seen of the surface but it looks like a LOT of loose rocks about the size of a normal software box. with the arms on there it would be nice to pick them up and make a path or other small things like that that you couldn't normally lift up.

another thing with using the arms.. it would defeat the need to wear a space suite constantly when out there and allow better comfort being able to get samples of anything or work on anything from inside of a working vehicle that is basicly an extention of their body. as opposed to having to be fully suited up, and driving for possible long periods of time.

go driving arround in a full snow suite and boots for a while and tell me how comfortable you are. ha ha ha

as far as why not to use steel... it wouldn't really matter seeing as the planet makes everything weigh less since the gravity isn't as strong over there. so i'm not too concerned about weight. not to mention the motors are VERY light weight compared to most setup's out there.

I was going to suggest 2 in the main compartment and some both being towed behinde and using the towing for storage of extra equiptment.

dryson · 2007-11-06 17:03:00

as far as why not to use steel... it wouldn't really matter seeing as the planet makes everything weigh less since the gravity isn't as strong over there. so i'm not too concerned about weight. not to mention the motors are VERY light weight compared to most setup's out there.

You have to figure in the money spent on getting the rocket that would carry your rover into space along with the cost of sending the rover to Mars.

The Aluminum and titanium mix would reduce the overweight but would cost more then the steel structure. The reduced cost in using aluminum and titanium in respect to the cost of launching a steel structure rover could be spent on making the rover better.

I was looking for a solution to the spacesuit issue and may have come up with a variant to yours

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ship/dsrv.htm

You'll notice the overall length would be perfect. With the structural support made out of aluminum and the hull made from titanium this SRV would provide various options to the naughts.

1.The area where the propeller is located would be where the engine compartment would be.

2. You could design the portion directly to the fore of the engine compartment as the EVA suit-up area. The hatch would either have to be on the side or on top. This area would have to be able to be pressurized and handle the extra amount of pressurization and depressurization.

3. The area directly fore of this section would be the sleeping area for extended trips, a small med lab in case a naught was injured along with a small science lab.

4.The final section would be the crew cab where of the course the operations of piloting the rover and the robotic arm would take place.

Dragoneye · 2007-11-06 22:08:12

I really like that idea... it would be taking my vehicle footprint from the size of an Audi Q7 to the size of a bus though, but no biggie. it WOULD allow way more usable area and you could easily fit 4 people in there comfortably... thanks for the idea! tomorrow when i have time i'll update the size of the vehicle and scale up the motors to be able to handle the difference in size/load.

Dragoneye · 2007-11-07 11:11:44

just doing some research and i decided to make it roughly the same size as a city bus (100" wide/tall by 40' long) that submarine is 50' long and 96" in diameter, so mine will end up being 120" shorter than that sub (still able to cary along a towed unit) but the same size in diameter.

As far as getting the vehicle there, it can technically be assembled out there (not very hard to do)

and it isn't like that shutle needs to be manned so you can send it out there ahead of time and all...

the motors on the vheicle could be a temporary power source for the camp till things are setup for more permanent use.

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Re: Who would be intrested? -Design a set of vehicles for mars-

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