New Discoveries - Extraplanetary, deep space, etc.

Palomar · 2002-11-17 18:47:46

And now, thanks to Cindy, I might even be able to find Antares somewhere in the vicinity, too! Or will it be somewhere different in 6 months?
:0

*Antares should be on the rise in your night skies; it's a summer constellation, and your summer is coming on. It's the alpha star in the constellation Scorpius. I'd suggest obtaining/locating a star chart published for your locale; Scorpius is an easy constellation to pick out [due to its striking shape], and Antares is the brightest in it -- it truly is the Heart of the Scorpion.

--Cindy

Palomar · 2002-11-17 18:58:34

Arcturus, Alderan, etc. Are any of those double stars? I actually broke down and bought an 8" (forgive my hypocrisy for using those units) aperture telescope recently but naturally the clouds always roll in around 4pm! I doubt if I'd be able to find anything with it anyway. The clouds give me an excuse to cover up my glaring ignorance when it comes to finding things.

*Antares is a double star. It's also a red giant whose diameter is wider across than that of the orbit of Mars! However, its companion is a tiny green star which Hubble might be able to see as distinct from Antares, but our telescopes can't.

Aldebaran is a double star, but its companion is difficult to make out [smaller and dimmer, like Antares and its companion]. Arcturus isn't a double.

Good luck with your new scope! What brand?

--Cindy

Phobos · 2002-11-18 18:53:53

Antares is a double star. It's also a red giant whose diameter is wider across than that of the orbit of Mars! However, its companion is a tiny green star which Hubble might be able to see as distinct from Antares, but our telescopes can't.
Aldebaran is a double star, but its companion is difficult to make out [smaller and dimmer, like Antares and its companion]. Arcturus isn't a double.
Good luck with your new scope! What brand?
--Cindy

My scope is an Antares 8XL. Haven't had the chance to try it out yet though, at least on the night sky. I'm looking forward to using it when Mars does it's fly by stunt in 2003. The clouds seem to be punishing me for some unknown reason though. I was hoping they might clear for the leonids but they look intent on sticking around. So much for watching the meteor show of the Century!

Palomar · 2002-11-19 11:32:07

Phobos: My scope is an Antares 8XL. Haven't had the chance to try it out yet though, at least on the night sky. I'm looking forward to using it when Mars does it's fly by stunt in 2003. The clouds seem to be punishing me for some unknown reason though.

*Sounds like Iowa! It's amazing I was able to learn the constellations with my little pet book, as a kid; clouds, clouds, and more clouds. Winter was almost impossible for the extreme cold and then there was getting eaten alive by mosquitos in the summer. It's -wonderful- in southern New Mexico; night after night of clear skies, low humidity, and I think I've only gotten bitten by maybe a dozen mosquitos during 10 summers of star gazing here. I like to set my reclining lawnchair on our horseshoe-shaped drive, lay back and watch the stars for an hour or two. Usually I take my 'scope out with me, but not always. Light pollution tends to be a problem, but during warm weather it's either contending with light pollution in town or taking the chance of getting bitten/stung/attacked by one of those nasty desert critters out in the wilderness [no thanks].

Phobos: I was hoping they might clear for the leonids but they look intent on sticking around. So much for watching the meteor show of the Century!

*I missed it, only because I have to work today. I caught the 2001 Perseid meteor shower; my husband and I got up at 4 AM; it was *supposed* to be spectacular, but wasn't...we saw maybe a meteor per minute, when the forecast was for *dozens* per minute. Oh well. I rarely get up to watch a meteor shower; I just can't do that "get up at 4 AM, go back to bed" routine.

--Cindy

Phobos · 2002-11-19 22:27:29

I have to contend with bad light pollution myself. Everytime I go outside to try to find something with binoculars I suddenly start fantasizing about grabbing a pellet gun and systematically blowing away every streetlight within three blocks. I just know I'm going to eventually find myself sitting in some room with a single hanging lightbulb dangling overhead and no windows answering questions like "where does all this aggression come from?"

*Sounds like Iowa! It's amazing I was able to learn the constellations with my little pet book, as a kid; clouds, clouds, and more clouds.

I've tried learning the constellations by fiat out of a book like that but I just can't remember the patterns when I actually look into the sky. So needless to say I'm jealous that you were able to learn them like that. I find the only way the constellations stick in my mind is if I take a planisphere (a new toy I've had for about a month) and compare the skies immediately with the stars on the planisphere. Oh hey, you remember those cards you mentioned awhile back that have all kinds of astro-info on them? I think I found something similiar at the Sky and Telescope webstore. I'll post a link to them the next time I get on.

Palomar · 2002-11-20 09:53:26

I've tried learning the constellations by fiat out of a book like that but I just can't remember the patterns when I actually look into the sky. So needless to say I'm jealous that you were able to learn them like that. I find the only way the constellations stick in my mind is if I take a planisphere (a new toy I've had for about a month) and compare the skies immediately with the stars on the planisphere. Oh hey, you remember those cards you mentioned awhile back that have all kinds of astro-info on them? I think I found something similiar at the Sky and Telescope webstore. I'll post a link to them the next time I get on.

*Astro-Cards. I looked for them at the Sky & Telescope web site, even electronic ones, but couldn't find them myself; I was hoping to post that information here. What -really- helped me learn the constellations was the book's graph of the Big Dipper being the "key" to locating the major stars of 5 constellations...from the major star of each constellation you then pick out the outline of that particular constellation. And then it's easier to pick out the constellations near that constellation.

For example, Acturus is "pointed to" by the 3 stars which comprise the Big Dipper's handle...just follow their gentle curve and not far away in the sky is Arcturus, a star brightest and closest to the last star in the Dipper's handle. But, of course, the Big Dipper pivots around the Pole Star during the seasons, and Arcturus isn't always visible in the sky; it currently is not. So your first step is to get to the basics of familiarizing yourself with the -seasonal- constellations.

The Big Dipper was always visible in north Iowa, so I was able to use it as a "key" all the time, when learning the constellations; down here in southern NM it currently is at the northern horizon, and thus would not currently be of much use to someone wishing to use it as a finder "key" this time of year, in this latitude.

--Cindy

Palomar · 2002-11-20 10:21:42

*I just got some hits on Google, which might be of use: Search with words "Big Dipper key" and "star hopping".

Phobos, you're actually in luck, in a way; the winter constellations are on the rise in the east, and in a month will dominate the night-time sky. Sirius is the brightest star in our sky, and is near the southern horizon in the winter. Orion is a bright constellation, always easy to pick out; my mom and husband can even find it, i.e. "Orion's that kite-like looking thing, right Cindy?"

It's fortunate that the autumn constellations are moving further westward as autumn passes; the autumn constellations are the faintest and most boring.

This would be a good time to begin studying a winter star chart.

--Cindy

Palomar · 2002-11-20 11:00:43

http://skymaps.com/articles/n0105.html

*Here's a good web site.

If you click on the "Articles" link near the top of the first web page, it'll take you to the monthly "Sky Calendar"; November 2002 is already listed...scroll down and click on "Download" for the latest Evening Sky Map.

--Cindy

P.S.: The book I learned from as a kid was _Stars_: A Golden Guide from St. Martin's Press [still in print...and by the way, this book is -not- "for kids"; it's for novices of all ages]. However, the following book is excellent as well, and is similar to the Golden Guide book:

The Stars
A New Way to See Them
by Hans Augusto Rey
160 pages, September 1976
Level: Beginner
A classic! Widely recognized as one of the best books for learning the constellations. Written in a unique, simple style that is suitable for young and older stargazers alike. Contains many wonderful illustrations to help teach the novice stargazer about the night sky. Also contains a collection of simple star charts for year round use. Highly recommended.

Reading Level: All Ages
Average customer review at Amazon.com:
Read Amazon Customer Reviews...

http://www.amazon.com/exec....8696806

P.P.S.: I just now found out that Mr. Rey is of the "Curious George" fame! Rather appropriate.

Palomar · 2002-11-20 15:26:32

*Get your surfboards out, folks...there's a big wave coming:

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm....erger_2

--Cindy

Josh Cryer · 2002-11-20 15:42:55

I saw that. Intense! I wish they would tell us when we'd get the gravity waves, though. It probably won't happen in our lifetimes.

Phobos · 2002-11-20 22:44:23

The Big Dipper was always visible in north Iowa, so I was able to use it as a "key" all the time, when learning the constellations; down here in southern NM it currently is at the northern horizon, and thus would not currently be of much use to someone wishing to use it as a finder "key" this time of year, in this latitude.
--Cindy

Now that's the kind of advice I'm looking for. I think one of my problems is that I was trying to remember the patterns of the constellations without really taking the time to learn how they exist in relation to other constellations. I'm having a hell of a time trying to find the Andromeda galaxy though. I have a particularly hard time trying to find those constellations which seem to span several fields of view like Andromeda. My short term memory seems, well, rather short. Do you have any other book recommendations? I was scanning Amazon as well and there's a lot to choose from. I was thinking "Turn Left at Orion" might be a good choice also.

Palomar · 2002-11-21 08:40:20

Do you have any other book recommendations? I was scanning Amazon as well and there's a lot to choose from. I was thinking "Turn Left at Orion" might be a good choice also.

*I don't have any further book recommendations at the present time...if I come across/think of others, I'll post it here.

Yeah, "Turn Left at Orion" sounds like a good book as well; I haven't read it, however. Orion can be used, like the Big Dipper, as a "key" to learning the constellations nearby.

--Cindy

Palomar · 2002-12-04 12:32:05

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm....lipse_1

*Shaun, want to comment? I've never seen a full eclipse of the sun; the most was perhaps 75% covered. My husband and I happened to be near a lake when that partial eclipse occurred; the water became very choppy [we were on the shore, not in the water] and the waves started pulling toward the direction of the sun and moon.

--Cindy

AltToWar · 2002-12-04 16:06:52

I used to live so far back in the Hills of tennessee that we had to pipe in sunshine.

The stars there were marvelous. i'm going home for christmas, and thats perhaps the one thing I'm looking foward to when visiting the folks

Here in brooklyn, I'm lucky if I can see 2-3 stars a night.

Orion is a great key for spotting constellations. I would suggest picking a constillation your interested in, then using 2 stars in Orion to form a line that point to the constilation your looking for.

soph · 2002-12-04 16:47:42

i live on long island. not much better for stargazing.

Shaun Barrett · 2002-12-04 19:41:38

Hi Cindy!

You've done better than I have with that 75% occultation! I saw an eclipse in Britain once but it didn't amount to much - more of a slight dimming than anything.
The Ceduna eclipse was shown here on T.V. and it was a real beauty! ... Something like 30 seconds of total blockout. I said to my wife, to whom I'm constantly trying to impart an appreciation for things scientific and things Martian, isn't it amazing that the Moon is almost exactly the same apparent size as the Sun, and can obscure it leaving just the corona visible?! With the Moon constantly receding from us, isn't it incredible that intelligence arose on Earth just in time to see, and appreciate, one celestial body fitting so neatly over another?
Even though I'm trying to amaze her with these little details, I think I wind up being more amazed myself!! But she assures me she is interested and says she's happy for me to go on enthusing about such stuff! (Hmmm! ... If she's simply humouring me, she's pretty good at concealing it! )

It's interesting you should mention the water on that lake becoming choppy during the eclipse you saw. This week's New Scientist has an article explaining how: "A total eclipse of the Sun creates a mini-cyclone that moves with the Moon's shadow, even when the sky is cloudy. The confirmation of this phenomenon backs up common reports from eclipse chasers that the darkening sky stirs up a breeze."
The article goes on to explain that minor temperature differences in the shadow of the Moon are the cause of the air movement, and this explains also the reports that clouds tend to disperse just before a total eclipse.

You learn something new every day! (Well, it was new to me, anyhow.)

Shaun Barrett · 2002-12-05 01:01:24

Speaking of the Moon.

You know those occasions when the Moon is visible in broad daylight? Sometimes, if the light is just right, the 3-D nature of it becomes much more obvious ... or at least it seems so to me.
When this happens, I just stop in my tracks and stare at it. Somehow, you can really feel the mass of the Moon! It changes from an abstract blotchy light in the sky into a very obviously solid, massive, ball of rock!
I know this sounds like I've been experimenting with unusual substances, but those moments seem to elevate your consciousness and you can almost feel the 'indentation' in the fabric of space made by the Moon's rocky bulk! For just a brief time, it's like you 'understand' gravity ... not with your mind, but with every part of you.

I don't think I can explain it any better than that. But it's a very pleasant feeling - as if you've transcended your senses and comprehended something you can't ordinarily feel or appreciate.
If anyone has felt this already, maybe they could let me know ... perhaps I'm stupidly trying to describe something everybody routinely appreciates but that I've only discovered in recent years!!
On the other hand, if you haven't experienced this thing, look out for it. It's when the less-than-half-a-Moon hangs, impossibly heavy, in the daylight sky and you can feel its crushing size and weight.
Surreal stuff!!
:0

Palomar · 2002-12-05 13:31:24

Hi Cindy!
It's interesting you should mention the water on that lake becoming choppy during the eclipse you saw. This week's New Scientist has an article explaining how: "A total eclipse of the Sun creates a mini-cyclone that moves with the Moon's shadow, even when the sky is cloudy. The confirmation of this phenomenon backs up common reports from eclipse chasers that the darkening sky stirs up a breeze."
The article goes on to explain that minor temperature differences in the shadow of the Moon are the cause of the air movement, and this explains also the reports that clouds tend to disperse just before a total eclipse.
You learn something new every day! (Well, it was new to me, anyhow.)

*Very interesting. I need to read that article; thanks for mentioning it.

Regarding the rising of the wind, and the choppiness of those waves [I've never seen wave activity quite like that before; it was kind of weird but fascinating], I figured it -must- have something to do with the eclipse itself, i.e. that it wasn't a coincidence, as before eclipse the air had been still and the water placid, yet the nearer the moon came to the sun, and then when directly "on'' it, the wind and wave activity both increased greatly...and then settled gradually down again; about half an hour after the eclipse, the wind was gone and the water was placid again.

--Cindy

Palomar · 2002-12-05 13:37:07

Speaking of the Moon.
You know those occasions when the Moon is visible in broad daylight? Sometimes, if the light is just right, the 3-D nature of it becomes much more obvious ... or at least it seems so to me.
When this happens, I just stop in my tracks and stare at it. Somehow, you can really feel the mass of the Moon! It changes from an abstract blotchy light in the sky into a very obviously solid, massive, ball of rock!

*Hmmmmm. Seeing the moon in the daylight has the opposite effect on me. To me, it looks ghostly and fragile; the areas of the mares are almost the same color as the sky, making it seem as though there are areas in the moon I can "see through" to the sky behind it.

BTW, there's an old superstition that when the sun is on the western horizon and the moon is on the eastern horizon (full) is the best time to "make a wish".

--Cindy

Palomar · 2002-12-05 13:53:15

http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/p … 21204.html

*Good article.

--Cindy

Josh Cryer · 2002-12-05 22:17:02

Dang, what the hell? New Theory Says Mars Never Had Oceans http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm...._mars_1

Man... I'm going to have to hold off until I see their actual justification for that, but I'm skeptical.

Josh Cryer · 2002-12-05 22:27:50

Hmm, just an addendum to my post. I think that we've known at least to some degree that Mars has been very dry for awhile, which would concur with these findings. But one thing I don't quite get yet, is why the northern hemisphere is smooth, as if an ocean once existed there in some form. That would contridict their findings. And I think, ultimately, if the geological processes they have suggested occured, the northern hemisphere would be even smoother than it is, because it would have been like a wash basin that was regularly hammered with lots of water; washing away everything.

Shaun Barrett · 2002-12-06 02:06:18

None of this can be true, Josh, because they're not saying what I want to hear!!

Josh Cryer · 2002-12-06 14:37:10

It's not actually that significant of a find, and it doesn't change our views much. We know there are vast quantities of water there. We just don't know really what sort of geological processes have been occuring over time.

It's actually a rather fair analysis of what could have been happening on Mars, and I am willing to go with a more rudimentary view that puts a large ocean there that's pummeled with asteroid impacts and the like (one must note that if their theory is correct,there had to have been a significant enough time of hydrological erosion to smooth the northern hemisphere after the impacts eventually stopped in regularity).

soph · 2002-12-06 14:42:46

thats what i didnt like about the report. they made it sound like one massive storm caused the basins. they said they are all from the same basic time, but why cant that point to the spread of water at the same time? on earth, the end of ice ages caused large pools of water to occur at the same time...an impact could have caused the ice to melt, forming oceans of relatively the same age.

but what do i know lol

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