Europe goes to the moon and Mars! - Human space flight....

Algol · 2004-07-21 02:10:55

http://www.esa.int/esaCP/SEMGNTU4QWD_in … tml]Aurora participants approve preparatory phase for European Space Exploration Programme

Comments.....

Gennaro · 2004-07-26 01:51:02

The sober tone of it sounds promising, in my opinion. For example the readiness to redefine program parameters in order to achieve maximum robustness and pay-off. Must admit I was unaware that Canada was a participant in the programe, but perhaps that's a recent development. The more the merrier I say, yet will the United States really allow what looks like a breach in the Monroe doctrine?

Now all we need are a Saturn 5 launcher system, maybe with a NTR stage and a world ecenomy that doesn't crash into medieval times because of peek oil, US budgetary deficits or whatever.

Although the latter point might at the same time result in enforcing the European economy by making the euro the preferred currency of the planet.

Yang Liwei Rocket · 2004-07-27 14:13:47

I don't know if Europe will go to mars with people, they have not launched as many great missions as Russia have, nor do they have the experience of NASA in space. So far only 3 nations have had manned missions, the US, Russia, China and when it comes to walking on the different worlds it is only the USA with Apollo..what a great thing to do ! They're are many who now try to have their own programs, like Japan, Brazil, S.Korea but some face rocket failures, bad economic climate or do big errors.

I think Europe is smart because Ariane rocket in the late 70s was good and it tries for newre creative stuff like Ion engines, the ESA knows it can do better if it works with launches with Russia or does good projects with NASA like the Cassini-Huygens or the future JWST scope which will replace Hubble . NASA has done some incredible things in the past having men in space, people on the moon and spacestations but now there is trouble with finance and safety. I think now NASA should tell the ESA to help more for afterall it was great work by NASA that helped everyone in every country understand science and our universe better, NASA should ask the ESA to start working on manned projects. I like some of the Rockets in French Guiana in South America, a space flight using people could be possibly used there in Kourou, I have read about new coming vega rockets. People like China, Russia and others might be working in space and NASA will have helped around the globe, but a closer partnership with Europe I think would be stronger and better than the rest and NASA could gain the most because of the relationship.

this is what euro rockets are like

http://a52.g.akamaitech.net/f/52/827/1d … ..._04.jpg

http://www.astronews.com/news/bilder/20 … 02-006.jpg

Yang Liwei Rocket · 2005-03-01 13:37:02

A human mission to the Moon, proposed for 2024, *** 20 years just to get to the moon! What's the rush??? *** would demonstrate key life-support and habitation technologies, as well as aspects of crew performance and adaptation to long-distance space flight.
Even in Europe the minds are corrupted.
Life support and habitation technologies : the moon is radiations, vacuum, and little gravity. The same as the ISS. Why not using the ISS for that then ? implicitement everybody recogneise that ISS is useless. What a waste.
crew performance : what does it mean more precisely ?
Long space flight : sure, the moon is 3 days from earth.
If they want to go to Mars, they should use every possible Euros to focuse on Mars. The moon will suck their money and just postpone the 'Grand Oeuvre' that has been designed to find the 'philosophical stone' on Mars.

some more information
First Habitat Design Workshop: Call for applicants
http://www.esa.int/images/exomars-2_L.j … rs-2_L.jpg

ESA’s Directorate of Human Spaceflight, Microgravity and Exploration, responsible for the Aurora Exploration Programme, and the Science Directorate invite graduates and post-graduates to participate in this exciting nine-day programme of activities, organised by the Moon-Mars Working Group in cooperation with ESA.
The exploration programmes of many nations, including ESA’s Aurora Exploration Programme and the US Vision for Exploration on the robotic and human exploration and settlement of the Moon, Mars and beyond, are showing the way forward. Current plans for Lunar/Martian base development and expanded human exploration of space are expected to come to fruition within the next 20 to 40 years. This means that those who will be involved in this next stage of space exploration are just beginning their careers in the space sector or still studying at school or university.
The Moon-Mars Working Group (MMW) aims to bring together experts in the field of Moon-Mars exploration with the next generation of programme managers, engineers, physicists, biologists, architects etc., who will be working on the human and robotic exploration of the solar system. MMW also acts as a forum and showcase for their visions and concerns. Habitat Design Workshop 2005 is one of the first steps towards this goal.

workshop will take place from 2-9 April at ESTEC’s Erasmus User Centre and will consist of lectures by experts in the many disciplines involved in the design and development of the human aspect of space missions. The organisation team, ranging from experts in space science to industrial design to architecture, will guide participants through a programme of preparatory work, lectures, discussion sessions and design exercises with the goal of creating design concepts for habitats to be included in human missions to the Moon, Mars and Phobos.

The challenge

The workshop will challenge participants to develop concepts and designs for hybrid and inflatable habitats for the exploration, use and settlement of the solar system. Those selected to take part in the workshop will work in teams, together with other graduates and post-graduates, to learn about habitat design, systems engineering and the space environment for one of the three missions.

Yang Liwei Rocket · 2005-07-24 05:03:34

The European Mars Express was already launched 2003 An ESA Orbiter for remote sensing of many aspects of the surface, subsurface and atmosphere of Mars, in particular search for water.
Roscosmos to take part in Phoenix’2 trials
http://www.esa.int/SPECIALS/ESA_Permane … U7E_0.html
Perminov and Camus also discussed current bilateral cooperation, joint-project activities under the Starsem and Eurockot enterprises, and the project to launch Soyuz from the European Spaceport in French Guiana.
Soyuz contract signed
http://www.cnes.fr/html/_96_197_3829_.php
http://www.esa.int/SPECIALS/ESA_Permane … 8BE_0.html
This signature is a major step for the construction of the ground infrastructure at Europe Spaceport in French Guiana and for the development of the Soyuz 2-1b launch vehicle. Kliper is planned to be a flexible spacecraft, that should have the capability to be launched both from Plesetsk or Baikonur and the European spaceport in French Guiana Kourou. It is unclear whether the Ariane 5 rocket, that was originally designed to bring the European Hermes shuttle into orbit, will be used as a launch vehicle beside Russian launch carriers. The Kliper spacecraft craft can carry up to six people and can be used for ferry services between earth and the International Space Station, but is also planned to be the crew module for further trips to the Moon and Mars. For a flight to the Moon a rocket capable of launching about 100 metric tons into LEO would be needed equaling around 45 metric tons to TLI, a flight to Mars would require an even heavier rocket if the spacecraft would be delivered into orbit in bulk.
http://www.sstl.co.uk/index.php?loc=119
http://cs.space.eads.net/sp/images/Mars … ertion.gif
http://www.astrium.eads.net/corp/pressrel/00001251.htm
http://www.marssociety.de/html/index.ph … 00000]mars Ariane-M
http://www.newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1731
The European Space Agency (ESA) pledged its backing for Russia's plans for manned spacecraft called Kliper, the news agency Itar-Tass reported here.
Daniel Sacotte, ESA's director of human spaceflight, microgravity and exploration programmes, said here his organisation "would support" the project, it said.
The project was discussed by Anatoly Perminov, head of the Russian Space Agency (RSA) and visiting ESA chief Jean-Jaques Dordain, it said.

ESA's ExoMars, which is scheduled for launch in 2009, includes an orbiter and a descent module and the Phobos-Grunt mission will study the Moons of Mars. Phobos-Grunt will also study Mars and its environment, including atmosphere and dust storms, plasma and radiation. Electric jet propulsion is considered for this Russian mission. In 2015 NASA will retrieve samples from Mars and place them in orbit using a Mars Ascent Vehicle and a CNES/ESA orbiter will collect the samples and bring them back to Earth. ESA’s Aurora Exploration Programme, currently in its preparatory phase, has as its first step the robotic exploration of Mars. In preparation for the ESA Council at Ministerial Level it is important that the priorities decided upon are confirmed by the scientific community involved and/or interested in the exploration of Mars. This is why ESA, in cooperation with the British National Space Centre (BNSC) and the Particle Physics Astronomy Research Council (PPARC), is inviting all European and Canadian scientists and researchers with an interest in the exploration of Mars to attend a workshop. ESA gave a challenge for the chefs, it was to offer astronauts well-flavoured food, made with only a few ingredients that could be grown on Mars. Spirulina is a blue-green algae, a very rich source of nutrition with lots of protein (65% by weight), calcium, carbohydrates, lipids and various vitamins that cover essential nutritional needs for energy in extreme environments. The menus were all based on nine main ingredients that ESA envisions could be grown in greenhouses of future colonies on Mars or other planets.
http://www.esa.int/esaCP/SEMJ9RRMD6E_index_1.html
Germany joined the Preparatory Phase of the European Space Exploration Programme Aurora. It thus becomes the twelfth country participating in the programme. “After the recent decisions of France, Switzerland and Canada to increase their contributions, this decision further strengthens the Aurora Programme and creates a positive momentum for the upcoming decisions at ministerial level”, said Daniel Sacotte, ESA’s Director of Human Spaceflight, Microgravity and Exploration.

simplesimon · 2005-07-24 07:03:08

If anyone wants to know my ideas about a manned mission to Mars (very extensive- and sometimes rather delusional, I know- but don't quote me on that), I have made a website concerning the terraformation and landing of crafts on Mars (though not nescessarily in that order ). please visit it to learn more, the url is:

http://www.livingonmars.tk]www.livingonmars.tk

Thanks

Yang Liwei Rocket · 2005-09-22 15:37:08

Aurora participants approve preparatory phase for European Space Exploration Programme

There are also reports that the Kliper is to be launched from either of Russia's two space centers Baikonur in Kazakhstan and Plesetsk in northern Russia as well as from the Kourou site, which is in French Guiana.
http://www.esa.int/SPECIALS/Launchers_A … ESD_0.html
http://uplink.space.com/attachments//12 … erview.JPG
Ariane-M would be the European Very Heavy Launcher, ArianeM would lift 120 tonnes in Leo.

EuroLauncher · 2005-10-19 18:36:51

News from a space phantom: The continuation of the Matroshka experiment

http://www.esa.int/esaHS/SEMDHA6Y3EE_index_1.html

A phantom, which was outside the International Space Station (ISS) for a year and a half, is now inside with the ISS crew. However this is no ghost story but a serious set of scientific experiments to monitor radiation levels inside and outside the ISS.
This Phantom is part of the ESA Matroshka experiment facility that was installed on the outside of the ISS on 27 February 2004 to measure radiation doses that astronauts experience during EVA activities.

Knowing the radiation doses suffered by sensitive body organs is crucial for assessing the hazards from cosmic radiation. These are still not well known. The results obtained from this experiment could help in the development of countermeasures to the effect of cosmic radiation experienced by astronauts.
The facility was developed for ESA by the German Aerospace Center (DLR) with Dr. Günther Reitz of DLR acting as the DLR Project Manager and at the same time heading the science team for Matroshka. The Phantom has a human shape consisting of a head and torso, which simulates the human body with relation to size, shape, position and mass. This was mounted inside an outer container of carbon fibre and reinforced plastic to simulate a spacesuit.

A two-year, €50 million ($60.5 million) evaluation of Russia’s proposed Kliper six-crew reusable spacecraft is now part of the European Space Agency’s updated Aurora exploration programme.

ESA Aurora and Kliper

Europe adds Kliper to Aurora plan

EuroLauncher · 2006-01-05 21:01:59

European ministers approve the Aurora Exploration Programme and give green light for the ExoMars mission
http://www.esa.int/SPECIALS/Aurora/SEM6NXVLWFE_0.html
The ministers from the 17 ESA Member States, gathered on 5 and 6 December in Berlin for an ESA Council Meeting, have decided to go ahead with the core programme of the European Space Exploration programme Aurora and its first robotic exploration mission to Mars, called ExoMars.

Yang Liwei Rocket · 2006-01-17 04:48:08

ESA's Director General meets the press

http://www.esa.int/esaCP/SEM12CMZCIE_index_0.html

speech (translated) , Questions and answers

http://www.usspacenews.com/index.html
January 16, 2006

ESA is exploring the design for a CEV class spacecraft based on the ATV.
This new crewed spacecraft share
common hardware and software with the ATV (including autonomous
rendezvous and docking). Principle
differences are in thermal control, enhanced ECLSS, escape and
recovery capabilities and crew systems

http://orbit.m6.net/v2/read.asp?id=28516
ESA testing Australian plasma rocket engine

Rxke · 2006-01-18 08:51:58

ESA is exploring the design for a CEV class spacecraft based on the ATV.
This new crewed spacecraft share
common hardware and software with the ATV (including autonomous
rendezvous and docking). Principle
differences are in thermal control, enhanced ECLSS, escape and
recovery capabilities and crew systems

Woohoo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That's the best news I heard in ages!

And before people start scoffing: ESA has done extensive re-entry technology experiments. But these projects seldomly get press-attention. Most experiments are smallish testobjects, launched by Russian boosters, testing new heatshielding etc.

Oh man, is this good news...

EuroLauncher · 2006-03-12 00:29:48

European space solidarity

France calls for European space solidarity
Chirac’s statement comes amid controversy over anti-takeover measures
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11752893/
France - President Jacques Chirac, under fire from European Union officials for shielding French companies from foreign bidders, called on Thursday for greater European cooperation on space projects.
Speaking at Franco-Italian satellite maker Alcatel Alenia Space, a subsidiary of France’s Alcatel and Italy’s Finmeccanica, Chirac said European firms must stick together to keep Europe at the cutting edge of space technology.
“Space must be at the heart of the European project,” said Chirac, who proposed the creation of a Mediterranean center for the prevention of risks using space technology.
Europe should be able to use these systems to monitor global warming and pollution, predict floods and eventually for tracking large meteorites, he said....
...Europe is in the embarrassing position of waiting to hitch a ride into space from the United States for a $1.2 billion laboratory that has been stuck on Earth for two years. The space shuttle is the only vehicle with the capacity to take the laboratory into space.
Chirac noted that the United States spends six times more of its public funds than Europe on developing space programs....

Yang Liwei Rocket · 2006-06-18 02:29:26

Hmm...
The claim was made earlier that $10 billion US of NASA's budget is spent on the Space Shuttle and International Space Station. That leaves NASA about $5 billion for other projects. As long as NASA is tightly saddled with Shuttle and ISS, that $5 billion seems a better indication of NASA's capabilities than the $15 billion gross value, of which 66% arrives already spent.
I don't think $3 billion compares too unfavorably to $5 billion.

i'm not sure if its that much

more news on ESA's current moon mission
http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewsr.html?pid=20792
This image, taken by the advanced Moon Imaging Experiment (AMIE) on board ESA's SMART-1 spacecraft, shows the central peaks of crater Zucchius.

A four-crew lunar return capsule could be operational by 2014 if the European Space Agency and Russia’s Federal Space Agency (FSA) get a €30 million ($39 million) pledge from ESA member states next week.
Kliper dropped for lunar capsule?
The money is for ESA’s proposed two-year preparatory programme for the Advanced Crew Transportation System, which would start this month if the funding is approved.

gaetanomarano · 2006-06-18 03:42:54

A four-crew lunar return capsule could be operational by 2014 if the European Space Agency and Russia’s Federal Space Agency (FSA) get a €30 million ($39 million) pledge from ESA member states next week.
Kliper dropped for lunar capsule?
The money is for ESA’s proposed two-year preparatory programme for the Advanced Crew Transportation System, which would start this month if the funding is approved.

I think that this "ESA/FSA Moonship Concept" probably is NOT a true ESA/FSA project ...or, if true, it's a VERY BAD design!

you can read WHY in my NewMars' post here: http://www.newmars.com/forums/viewtopic … c&start=20

.

EuroLauncher · 2007-04-03 11:39:02

ESA prepares for a human mission to Mars
http://www.esa.int/esaHS/SEMYNY6DWZE_index_0.html

Yang Liwei Rocket · 2007-05-12 01:27:49

International conference on Moon exploration and utilisation

10 May 2007

http://www.esa.int/SPECIALS/Aurora/SEM997V681F_0.html

The 9th ILEWG International Conference on Exploration and Utilisation of the Moon (ICEUM9-ILC2007), co-hosted by the Italian space agency ASI and ESA, will take place in Sorrento, Italy, from 22-26 October 2007. Abstracts should be submitted before 15 June 2007.

Fledi · 2007-05-14 15:24:00

ESA is exploring the design for a CEV class spacecraft based on the ATV.
This new crewed spacecraft share
common hardware and software with the ATV (including autonomous
rendezvous and docking). Principle
differences are in thermal control, enhanced ECLSS, escape and
recovery capabilities and crew systems

Upgrading the ATV to a crewed capsule has been discussed as an option for quite some time.
Last thing I know it is planned as a gradual process with upgrading to an unmanned reentry vehicle and then possibly going to a manned capsule. But the Ariane launcher also would have to be man-rated for a full orbital capsule that can go up manned. It all depends on the success of the basic version in the near future and the political will I guess.
At the moment there is a plan to use a smaller reentry capsule within the ATV pressurized cargo compartment that would be protected by the burning up main vehicle around it.

As for smaller demonstration capsules, I happen to be currently somewhat involved with a plasma flow measuring experiment on the EXPERT capsule. At the moment the whole thing has become too heavy so that the side panels made of a nickel-chrome alloy would melt away because of the increased heat load. I guess it will only fly next year if the guys/gals can make some hefty weight reductions with this configuration.

EuroLauncher · 2007-12-16 23:16:09

ESA Head of Science sets out Cosmic Vision goals

http://www.euronews.net/index.php?page= … 9310&lng=1

Javof · 2007-12-19 11:18:46

That she else installs?
Люди, что такое ESA?

dryson · 2007-12-19 20:34:30

A phantom, which was outside the International Space Station (ISS) for a year and a half, is now inside with the ISS crew. However this is no ghost story but a serious set of scientific experiments to monitor radiation levels inside and outside the ISS.
This Phantom is part of the ESA Matroshka experiment facility that was installed on the outside of the ISS on 27 February 2004 to measure radiation doses that astronauts experience during EVA activities.
Knowing the radiation doses suffered by sensitive body organs is crucial for assessing the hazards from cosmic radiation. These are still not well known. The results obtained from this experiment could help in the development of countermeasures to the effect of cosmic radiation experienced by astronauts.
The facility was developed for ESA by the German Aerospace Center (DLR) with Dr. Günther Reitz of DLR acting as the DLR Project Manager and at the same time heading the science team for Matroshka. The Phantom has a human shape consisting of a head and torso, which simulates the human body with relation to size, shape, position and mass. This was mounted inside an outer container of carbon fibre and reinforced plastic to simulate a spacesuit.

A two-year, €50 million ($60.5 million) evaluation of Russia’s proposed Kliper six-crew reusable spacecraft is now part of the European Space Agency’s updated Aurora exploration programme.

What about this for a possible solution: I was looking at the mylar roadside emergency blankets that reflect back body heat. What causes the cells to deteriorate? The radiation heating the cells up, just like a sunburn. If a thin layer was applied between the inner hull and outter hull in theory the raditation would be reflected back. This energy source could then be used to heat the inner hull keeping the temperature a little warmer while at the same time reducing the the need of conventional heating methods. Just a theory of course.

Terraformer · 2007-12-22 13:51:04

Whereas my solution uses some sort of material that absorbs the radiation and converts it into electricity, killing two birds with one stone.

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#76 2004-07-21 02:10:55

Re: Europe goes to the moon and Mars! - Human space flight....

#77 2004-07-26 01:51:02

Re: Europe goes to the moon and Mars! - Human space flight....

#78 2004-07-27 14:13:47

Re: Europe goes to the moon and Mars! - Human space flight....

#79 2005-03-01 13:37:02

Re: Europe goes to the moon and Mars! - Human space flight....

#80 2005-07-24 05:03:34

Re: Europe goes to the moon and Mars! - Human space flight....

#81 2005-07-24 07:03:08

Re: Europe goes to the moon and Mars! - Human space flight....

#82 2005-09-22 15:37:08

Re: Europe goes to the moon and Mars! - Human space flight....

#83 2005-10-19 18:36:51

Re: Europe goes to the moon and Mars! - Human space flight....

#84 2006-01-05 21:01:59

Re: Europe goes to the moon and Mars! - Human space flight....

#85 2006-01-17 04:48:08

Re: Europe goes to the moon and Mars! - Human space flight....

#86 2006-01-18 08:51:58

Re: Europe goes to the moon and Mars! - Human space flight....

#87 2006-03-12 00:29:48

Re: Europe goes to the moon and Mars! - Human space flight....

#88 2006-06-18 02:29:26

Re: Europe goes to the moon and Mars! - Human space flight....

#89 2006-06-18 03:42:54

Re: Europe goes to the moon and Mars! - Human space flight....

#90 2007-04-03 11:39:02

Re: Europe goes to the moon and Mars! - Human space flight....

#91 2007-05-12 01:27:49

Re: Europe goes to the moon and Mars! - Human space flight....

#92 2007-05-14 15:24:00

Re: Europe goes to the moon and Mars! - Human space flight....

#93 2007-12-16 23:16:09

Re: Europe goes to the moon and Mars! - Human space flight....

#94 2007-12-19 11:18:46

Re: Europe goes to the moon and Mars! - Human space flight....

#95 2007-12-19 20:34:30

Re: Europe goes to the moon and Mars! - Human space flight....

#96 2007-12-22 13:51:04

Re: Europe goes to the moon and Mars! - Human space flight....

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