Mars Politics Difficulties

Palomar · 2005-07-20 07:44:32

*To me it's a difficult topic. There are so many variables:

1. The varying degrees of settlement/colonization.
2. The natural lapse of time and generation advancement.
3. What Earth nations will have citizenry on Mars...and which won't? And why?
4. The current state of war on Earth (and how that -MIGHT- effect Mars colonists as loyalties and ethnic bonds go).
5. How much terraforming will or will not prove a "flashpoint."
6. Corporate presence versus a more socialist/private base (base = population majority or minority).
7. Cultural mix and the likely debate of retaining cultural identity versus blending into an overall Culture.

Again, it seems the most logical course to me is to pick from the best political models from Earth history (what political model/s worked the best for the most of its citizens over a respectable period of time -- perhaps 200 years) and go from there. But building that political model in the Mars culture would require a lot of cooperation and agreement by the colonists.

If they can't agree...stay on Earth.

--Cindy

Cobra Commander · 2005-07-20 08:01:57

If they can't agree...stay on Earth.

I'm going to have to take the opposing stance on this one. If we go to Mars and fight wars, if we repeat the worst parts of Earth history on every celestial body we set foot upon, I still think it's worth it. We're going to do the same things wherever we go, quarantining ourselves won't prevent anything except the expansion of humanity.

No, I say we go even if we have the bitterest of disagreements. If it comes to a fight, so be it. In the end we'll still be further along than when we started.

Palomar · 2005-07-20 08:07:27

We're going to do the same things wherever we go, quarantining ourselves won't prevent anything except the expansion of humanity.

*I'm not advocating that we quarantine ourselves (I'd -never- do that). I'm just pitching for "you came here, you agreed to A, B, C -- now honor it."

Not expecting Nirvana nor Utopia, btw.

Also, corporations are anti-social. The U.S. wasn't built on corporations --which IMO are the pathological manifestation of capitalism -- but rather on a purer form of capitalism. Keep corporations off Mars. The overall society will be healthier if it's modeled on a more charitable/socially aware form of capitalism (win-win vs the corporate "got mine/screw you").

--Cindy

Cobra Commander · 2005-07-20 08:17:35

*I'm not advocating that we quarantine ourselves (I'd -never- do that). I'm just pitching for "you came here, you agreed to A, B, C -- now honor it."

Which works fine for the first generation. After that, lock and load.

Keep corporations off Mars. The overall society will be healthier if it's modeled on a more charitable/socially aware form of capitalism (win-win vs the corporate "got mine/screw you").

The problem though is that charity and social awareness are a product of culture rather than political system or economic arrangement. That's the fatal flaw of communism, trying to legislate or dictate charity and social consciousness.

So if the culture of the Martian colony is amenable to that way of thinking it will all work itself out. If not, no amount of prodding will succeed in truly achieving it.

I could go into another fasco-libertarian rant but no sleep and no food makes Cobra go moderate.

These new smilies kinda blow. Except this one: :twisted:

Palomar · 2005-07-20 08:33:25

Keep corporations off Mars. The overall society will be healthier if it's modeled on a more charitable/socially aware form of capitalism (win-win vs the corporate "got mine/screw you").
The problem though is that charity and social awareness are a product of culture rather than political system or economic arrangement. That's the fatal flaw of communism, trying to legislate or dictate charity and social consciousness.
So if the culture of the Martian colony is amenable to that way of thinking it will all work itself out. If not, no amount of prodding will succeed in truly achieving it.
These new smilies kinda blow. Except this one: :twisted:

*Okay, I see your point. But isn't all this voracious/rapacious/ultragreedy "cook the books/screw the investor" corporate capitalism a -product- of this culture as well?

It's mostly about perception, attitude and values. The former American capitalism model would be far more beneficial for a fledgling colony on Mars than this current "go for the jugular" climate.

Now I've got the weapons issue rolling around in my brain, but I brought that up in the old "Weaponization Before Civilization?" thread (or whatever it was entitled precisely).

--Cindy

Cobra Commander · 2005-07-20 08:47:10

*Okay, I see your point. But isn't all this voracious/rapacious/ultragreedy "cook the books/screw the investor" corporate capitalism a -product- of this culture as well?

Of course. Our culture today is not what American culture once was. Surely we've made a great many gains since the founding, but we've also lost some things as well.

If we go to Mars as we are today, Martian culture will start out the same. Perhaps some well-planned social conditioning is in order.

Oh right, I said no rants until after lunch.

reddragon · 2005-07-20 13:33:59

If, when people go to Mars, terrestrial corporations do not try to expand onto Mars as well (an unlikely postulate, I admit), then Martian citizens will be free to start their own small businesses. Thus we will have a situation similar to that in early America (small businesses, not corporations). However, business will probably evolve in a very similar way. Thus, as in America, corporations will replace small businesses.

srmeaney · 2005-07-21 09:05:17

You missed one.

Ten minutes in, the decision by the first Martians to regard life forms that produce as little more than organic machines. First the Cows that produce milk then the women that produce children-just add life support systems.

This would ofcourse be followed by a nasty little war where the nice people are forced to kill a whole buch of smart arses who took their civilization in the wrong direction...

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#1 2005-07-20 07:44:32

Re: Mars Politics Difficulties

#2 2005-07-20 08:01:57

Re: Mars Politics Difficulties

#3 2005-07-20 08:07:27

Re: Mars Politics Difficulties

#4 2005-07-20 08:17:35

Re: Mars Politics Difficulties

#5 2005-07-20 08:33:25

Re: Mars Politics Difficulties

#6 2005-07-20 08:47:10

Re: Mars Politics Difficulties

#7 2005-07-20 13:33:59

Re: Mars Politics Difficulties

#8 2005-07-21 09:05:17

Re: Mars Politics Difficulties

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