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Actually nuclear electric propulsion could quite possibly require less time to develop than nuclear thermal. All that needs to be developed for nuclear electric propulsion is a nuclear reactor, similar to a submarine reactor perhaps smaller, and a scaled up ion engine similar to the one flow on deep space 2 or contour. Another option would be scaling up mini magnetosphere propulsion to use instead of an ion engine. You could build a similar craft which uses solar power. This craft however would likely be unable to use aerobraking, as a system for folding and stowing the solar collection system would be needed. In the event of a minor failure of this system astronauts could be killed during aerobraking or left stranded on mars. Nuclear reactors have substantially fewer moving parts and leave the craft with a simpler more robust power system.
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Actually nuclear electric propulsion could quite possibly require less time to develop than nuclear thermal. All that needs to be developed for nuclear electric propulsion is a nuclear reactor, similar to a submarine reactor perhaps smaller, and a scaled up ion engine similar to the one flow on deep space 2 or contour. Another option would be scaling up mini magnetosphere propulsion to use instead of an ion engine. You could build a similar craft which uses solar power. This craft however would likely be unable to use aerobraking, as a system for folding and stowing the solar collection system would be needed. In the event of a minor failure of this system astronauts could be killed during aerobraking or left stranded on mars. Nuclear reactors have substantially fewer moving parts and leave the craft with a simpler more robust power system.
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The website for the russian Mars Mission is now online! Pictures, diagrams etc. Click here. They plan to use solar electric propulsion so the vehicle will have really *huge* solar panels, looks cool though. The big advantage is that the vehicle (or part of it) will be reusable.
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The newly-published drawings do a good job of illustrating the Mars mission. I see that there is no Venus fry-by involved; however, use of ion engines instead of chemical or nuclear-thermal engines adds three months onto transit time. The vehicle would also need Energia production to restart, which is unlikely given the dismantled state of the Energia assembly line.
I also think that solar panels are impractical and that the design team was pushed away from nuclear power due to political considerations. Although engineers generally have great faith in nuclear power, the general public does not consist of engineers, and they fear this efficient and relatively clean source of power.
"I'm not much of a 'hands-on' evil scientist."--Dr. Evil, "Goldmember"
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I'm all for nuclear power in space but in this case I'm not so sure. Political factors will play a major role in getting the mission off the ground, like it or not. And I wonder if it wouldn't be actually a lot cheaper to use solar power since all the required technology already exists. Look at it this way: in the end solar arrays get their power from the most powerful space nuclear reactor known to man: the sun. Why bother with constructing an imperfect and more dangerous miniature version of it?
Of course we'll have to use nuclear power in the long term (e.g. for long duration surface stays) but for the very first mission solar power might be the way to go. Public support for a manned mission to Mars will be weak at best so we shouldn't risk losing even that weak support by going nuclear on the very first mission.
Using electrical propulsion is also a very good idea I think. NTR engines are not an option, first for the reasons listed above and second for the much higher development costs.
The only real problem I see with the mission design is the current lack of an HLV but one is needed anyway if we want to do anything beyond LEO. NASA's planned Magnum booster might be an option, or another Shuttle derived vehicle.
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Solar arrays present a problem for the proposed flight to Mars because they will require many spacewalks and robotic servicers to assemble. As the ISS has proven, assembling large solar arrays will take a lot of time and money. A nuclear reactor, on the other hand, can be launched in one piece. I also refute claims that a space reactor will be difficult and expensive to develop--the United States flew one in the 1960's and the Soviets flew at least eight, including one that accidentally re-entered over Canada.
"I'm not much of a 'hands-on' evil scientist."--Dr. Evil, "Goldmember"
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Here's what they had said on it before
http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl? … ...rom=rss
http://www.marsdaily.com/2004/040114165 … 9ehsq.html
Mars at 2014 ?
'first steps are not for cheap, think about it...
did China build a great Wall in a day ?' ( Y L R newmars forum member )
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"without Russian participation I believe the ISS would still be a dream."
...and we would not have had that Albatross saddled on or neck...
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4683977.stm]BBC Russia sets space budget for next ten years
Russia sets its budget and will be spending a total of $10.50 Billion or 300 Billion roubles in the whole ten years
That means no Mars missions and infact nothing new to pay for Klipper either.
Chan eil mi aig a bheil ùidh ann an gleidheadh an status quo; Tha mi airson cur às e.
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*All these paper missions.
I'll believe there's been a manned mission to Mars when I see it.
BTW, I noticed a "corner comment" for an article ... I just recalled where and which one:
A virtual armada of paper spaceships to explore Mars have been created to provide artwork to countless reports and studies costing billions of dollars.
http://www.spacedaily.com/news/mars-fut … ml]Article
--Cindy
We all know [i]those[/i] Venusians: Doing their hair in shock waves, smoking electrical coronas, wearing Van Allen belts and resting their tiny elbows on a Geiger counter...
--John Sladek (The New Apocrypha)
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nothing new to pay for Klipper either.
from the article:
The programme provides money for the development of a reusable spacecraft to replace the ageing Soyuz manned launch vehicle.
That spells Kliper, no?
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nothing new to pay for Klipper either.
from the article:
The programme provides money for the development of a reusable spacecraft to replace the ageing Soyuz manned launch vehicle.
That spells Kliper, no?
Russian's will do something big in 2007 from Russian pads, they could also launch from Europe's Guiana South America or Baikonur Kazakhstan
The year 2007 could be a big event for them, and for their Laika space-dog that went up on Sputnik-II
http://www.newmars.com/forums/viewtopic … ...3;st=15
There is also info on the other Russian plans
Russian participation in European/Japan BepiColombo mission
Russia's joint efforts with Chinese Space Agencies Roscosmos / CNSA with ultra-high speed penetrators and sample return from the Moon.
Soyuz to launch from French Guiana, the Russian technicians have already visited European space launch base in French Guiana South America.
Roscosmos Venus lander Venera-D
http://www.dogluvers.com/dog_breeds/Rus … space_dogs
http://www.space.com/news/laika_anniver … 91103.html
http://www.silverdalen.se/stamps/dogs/l … ...ian.htm
http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/Histo … sput2.html
http://www.spacetoday.org/Astronauts/An … /Dogs.html
When 2007 comes it will see the 50th anniversary of Sputnik-I satellite and the Spuknik-2 with the dog Laika, these were the first satellites in Space
How is Russia going to mark this space event ?
'first steps are not for cheap, think about it...
did China build a great Wall in a day ?' ( Y L R newmars forum member )
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nothing new to pay for Klipper either.
from the article:
The programme provides money for the development of a reusable spacecraft to replace the ageing Soyuz manned launch vehicle.
That spells Kliper, no?
With that Budget, seriously ???
Chan eil mi aig a bheil ùidh ann an gleidheadh an status quo; Tha mi airson cur às e.
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With that Budget, seriously ???
Forget about the Budget, the Russian Soviet Empire is gone and the Russians went Bankrupt when USSR fell down, there are new powers on the block
1 EU $10,800,200,000,000
2 U S $ 10,300,100,000,000
3 China $ 5,800,500,000,000
4 Japan $ 3,350,400,000,000
Soyuz is now to launch from ESA's French Guiana South America, Russia is looking to the Euros and Europe is to pay Russia to build Soyuz pad at Kourou
'first steps are not for cheap, think about it...
did China build a great Wall in a day ?' ( Y L R newmars forum member )
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Don't forget India at number 5, and growing much faster than Japan.
However, Russia is not bankrupt and has made impressive economic progress in the last 10 years - paid off foriegn loans, improve cash reserves and averaged about 6% growth pa. The very welcome news of a boost to space funding is a reflection of this.
Jon
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Don't forget India at number 5, and growing much faster than Japan.
However, Russia is not bankrupt and has made impressive economic progress in the last 10 years - paid off foriegn loans, improve cash reserves and averaged about 6% growth pa. The very welcome news of a boost to space funding is a reflection of this.
Jon
Yeah, but that's after averaging a -7% from 1990-1998... and most of Russia's growth has been from bringing old capacity on line and because of froth in commodities rather than too much real progress. Combine that with Russia's *massive* demographic deficit and the future picture is not too pretty for the Russian bear...
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*All these paper missions.
I'll believe there's been a manned mission to Mars when I see it.
Unfortunately, I have to agree here. It seems like every month now Russia announces a new plan for a mission to Mars, yet none of these paper plans have been backed up with any actual development. I find it very unprofessional of the Russian Space Agency to continue to posture in this way without actually doing anything other than ferrying crews to the ISS twice a year. Yes, they have a limited budget, but before you complain about NASA's fixation on the shuttle, consider how synonymous Soyuz has become with the RSA. In the past 38 years Russia has never seroiusly attempted to launch any manned mission beyond LEO or even on anything other than Soyuz. IMHO NASA has a much brighter future than the RSA.
A mind is like a parachute- it works best when open.
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DSE-Alpha
http://www.astronautix.com/craft/dsealpha.htm
reusable spacecraft development
http://www.russianspaceweb.com/spacecraft_reusable.html
ESA rattles tin for Russian space plane
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/09/28 … e_funding/
Energia will fly you to the Moon for a mere $100 million.
'first steps are not for cheap, think about it...
did China build a great Wall in a day ?' ( Y L R newmars forum member )
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Cindy: Wish I could, but I can't agree with you, re. NASA going it alone to the Moon and (dare I mention it, here of all places) Mars. Yang's posts are indicative of the infrastructure building, which obviously is necessary before joint Russian/EU space missions can begin from the region of the Equator. Meanwhile, the ongoing, trouble-free launchings, are good training for a young engineering cadre--which we ain't got, and won't have until Griffin, God bless him, gets his own act up and running on all cylinders. Meanwhile also, the paper designs are visibly improving, while the infrastructure advances. We should be involved more.
By the way, I wonder when the British are going to exert their impressive imaginations, along spacetravel lines again, and get together with NASA, if only with the ingenious paper designs they are capable of. It's idea-time, folks.
On the other hand, the "Dr No Syndrome" may be kicking in, but until the World has learned how to counter the "smart, cheap and reliable" suicide-bomb weapon, being employed so effectively (which never appeared in any of the James Bond story lines I remember, as the third force against which the World could unit), death goes on.
Ah, the dreams of age ... fraught with impatience to witness us safely off the Home Planet, for good.
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Ah, the dreams of age ... fraught with impatience to witness us safely off the Home Planet, for good.
That could be my own deep reason for a 50-years maniacal interest in space exploration.
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DSE-Alpha
http://www.astronautix.com/craft/dsealpha.htm
reusable spacecraft development
http://www.russianspaceweb.com/spacecraft_reusable.html
ESA rattles tin for Russian space plane
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/09/28 … e_funding/
Energia will fly you to the Moon for a mere $100 million.
Cool websites.
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