Space Ring to Stop Global Warming?

Palomar · 2005-06-27 14:14:31

http://www.livescience.com/technology/0 … html]Click

*Would have a hefty price tag: Half a trillion bucks. Would also illuminate the night sky as much as a full Moon (I'm already opposed. Love those dark skies for my telescope!).

And wouldn't all that extra, consistent light at night screw up the growth of crops, other life rhythms/cycles, etc.?

Comparisons made with Saturn's shepherding moons, relative to shepherding spacecraft. We're currently following the http://www.newmars.com/forums/viewtopic … ni-Huygens mission in this thread (no spill-over please).

The debate over global warming continues and the article touches on that as well.

In the newly outlined approach, reflective particles might come from the mining of Earth, the Moon or asteroids. They'd be put into orbit around the equator. Alternately, tiny micro-spacecraft could be deployed with reflective umbrellas.

--Cindy

Stormrage · 2005-06-28 20:03:04

I got an idea which is much cheaper. Build alot of trees near the Sahara makes sure they grow properly. Then slowly build more trees into the desert it's self.
We lose the desert and create another big carbon sink like the amazon rainforest.

Palomar · 2005-06-29 04:55:08

I got an idea which is much cheaper. Build alot of trees near the Sahara makes sure they grow properly. Then slowly build more trees into the desert it's self.
We lose the desert and create another big carbon sink like the amazon rainforest.

*Hi Stormrage. I definitely like your idea a whole lot better.

The price tag on this "space ring" proposal is unthinkable, IMO. Especially given the debates raging around the global warming issue (is it or is it not as dire as some claims/predictions have made it out to be).

And again, the issue of every night sky being lit ala a full Moon (and when the Moon is in full phase, just that much more night-sky brightness). A major inconvenience (understatement) to professional and amateur astronomers, and then there are the agricultural/horticultural aspects and gods-knows whatever else. A. C. Clarke, in one of his sequels to 2001: A Space Odyssey -- 2010, IIRC -- had Jupiter somehow transformed into a mini-sun named "Lucifer." He went into some detail/description of how that additional light affected Earth (not entirely detrimental). But of course there'd be a difference yet between this space ring and Clarke's Jupiter/"Lucifer" -- given Jupiter's transit/orbit and etc.; its influence would have varied a bit. Not exactly like this "akin to a full Moon every night" business. :-\

Anyway, no thanks. I want to see my meteor showers, the Milky Way in the summer, and "just" an ordinary dark night sky when the Moon is at new phase or is at minimums of waxing and waning.

--Cindy

SpaceNut · 2005-06-29 05:21:01

The problem of planting trees is not so much that they can not grow in the desert but it is one of water supply, nutrients for good growth and the blistering temperatures. If one uses high altitude balloons that were large in size or just placed lots of them over this area to effect a temperature change a new weather pattern would start. Supplement that with the planting and a progressive stepped approach it just may work. Reduce the number of sun blocker balloons as time goes on to aid with temperature control.

One could possibly make these balloons with solar cells on the top, add some steering capability and maybe an anchor line or tether to allow for free energy to supplement to process to be brought to the ground.

C M Edwards · 2005-06-29 14:10:29

Giant space ring? Bah.

With oil production about to peak in the next few years and decline in the next few decades, we probably won't even need the Kyoto Protocol, much less this thing. No petroleum = No carbon source = no carbon dioxide.

Mother nature is about to step in and take care of global warming for us. If we can't play responsibly with our oil supply, she'll just take it away, and if we don't have enough sense to develop other power sources instead, that'll just be too bad.

We would do much better to worry about where our next tank of petrol is coming from than where our space ring is going. The world needs to start conserving fuels right now.

reddragon · 2005-06-29 17:17:49

Well there's still coal burning and other sources of CO2; oil isn't the only one, but it is the biggest one. Certainly, the end of oil will go a long way to help curb global warming even as it will create other problems.

A space ring is just a bad idea. It will create other problems that may be worse. And by the time it can be constructed we will have either taken other steps to stop global warming or adapted to living in a warmer world. In the second case the ring will mean a new round of problems from global cooling following the first round from global warming. The best bet is to try to curb global warming and look for alternative power sources, such as solar or fusion, now.

Commodore · 2005-06-29 18:09:30

Wouldn't the lost of plant life from this thing leave enough extra co2 in the atmosphere to counteract the cooling effect?

Its an interesting idea though, for other reasons. I reminds me of the defense station around the moon in startship troopers. If you run space elevators all around this thing, it would be the ultimate port of call.

reddragon · 2005-06-29 18:26:44

If you run space elevators all around this thing, it would be the ultimate port of call.

They weren't advocating a solid ring. Just a ring of satellites or debris.

Grypd · 2005-06-30 10:42:27

The problem of planting trees is not so much that they can not grow in the desert but it is one of water supply, nutrients for good growth and the blistering temperatures. If one uses high altitude balloons that were large in size or just placed lots of them over this area to effect a temperature change a new weather pattern would start. Supplement that with the planting and a progressive stepped approach it just may work. Reduce the number of sun blocker balloons as time goes on to aid with temperature control.
One could possibly make these balloons with solar cells on the top, add some steering capability and maybe an anchor line or tether to allow for free energy to supplement to process to be brought to the ground.

Your right about the water supply but if we plant enough trees it should create a cycle where the shade cools the area and more moisture will arrive. With luck eventually and enough plant life you create a full rain cycle.

North Africa used to have this but the depredations of man in cutting the trees down to give the cities growing there (Carthage, Roman) fuel and extra food area changed the enviroment to what is now desert or semi desert.

Stormrage · 2005-06-30 17:03:49

The problem of planting trees is not so much that they can not grow in the desert but it is one of water supply, nutrients for good growth and the blistering temperatures. If one uses high altitude balloons that were large in size or just placed lots of them over this area to effect a temperature change a new weather pattern would start. Supplement that with the planting and a progressive stepped approach it just may work. Reduce the number of sun blocker balloons as time goes on to aid with temperature control.
One could possibly make these balloons with solar cells on the top, add some steering capability and maybe an anchor line or tether to allow for free energy to supplement to process to be brought to the ground.
Your right about the water supply but if we plant enough trees it should create a cycle where the shade cools the area and more moisture will arrive. With luck eventually and enough plant life you create a full rain cycle.
North Africa used to have this but the depredations of man in cutting the trees down to give the cities growing there (Carthage, Roman) fuel and extra food area changed the enviroment to what is now desert or semi desert.

You just answered it for me. Thanks

Anyway, no thanks. I want to see my meteor showers, the Milky Way in the summer, and "just" an ordinary dark night sky when the Moon is at new phase or is at minimums of waxing and waning.

It would be terrible if i had to be forced to watch that ring every night. Sometimes when i am stressed i got out in the garden lie down and watch the Stars and hope i get to explore them one day. I really don't want to see a ring there.

SpaceNut · 2005-08-30 07:32:18

While a global ring may not be necessary more study into the cause and effects of climate cycles are needed.
South Polar ozone hole makes big comeback

This season's Antarctic ozone hole has swollen to an area of ten million square kilometres from mid-August - approximately the same size as Europe and still expanding. It is expected to reach maximum extent during September, and ESA satellites are vital for monitoring its development.
This year's hole is large for this time of year, based on results from the last decade: only the ozone holes of 1996 and 2000 had a larger area at this point in their development.

Stormrage · 2005-08-30 17:36:30

This may sound stupid but why not flood the ozone hole with O3? Just enough to give southern Chile protection from the radiation.

John Creighton · 2005-08-30 17:40:16

This may sound stupid but why not flood the ozone hole with O3? Just enough to give southern Chile protection from the radiation.

Time to make some smog. . Anyway would a space ring really cool the earth or would it have a heating effect?

Trebuchet · 2005-08-31 01:33:23

What could be done is float giant white rafts - a foam ring with a shiny white reflective plastic sheet in the middle - in the ocean. Anchor them out in the middle of the ocean somewhere - most of the life is near the shore. Increasing the Earth's albedo by a percent or two is probably the cheapest way to cool off.

DonPanic · 2005-08-31 03:51:13

What could be done is float giant white rafts - a foam ring with a shiny white reflective plastic sheet in the middle - in the ocean. Anchor them out in the middle of the ocean somewhere - most of the life is near the shore. Increasing the Earth's albedo by a percent or two is probably the cheapest way to cool off.

This doesn't seem as a very good idea because what is important is to reduce albedo above :shock: green house gaz layers, not under.
I just hope that if global warming is a reality, the feed back will simply rely on more evaporation, thus more altitude clouds reducing Earth albedo above the green house layers.

Grypd · 2005-08-31 04:13:04

We are actually in a strange position when it comes down to pollution and its effects.

Take for example the aerosols that are blamed for the creation of the hole that is formed at the south atlantic and increasingly the North Pole too. So we can reduce there intensity and hopefully the O3 holes will disapear.

But what those aerosols and extra carbon in the atmosphere are also doing is protecting the people of Earth. There is a thing called Global dimming and it is recognised and is being recorded as increasing each year.

Global dimming is where particulates thrown into the atmosphere and created by the transport of Aircraft reflect some of the sunlight that is hitting the Earth and sends it back into space. What this means is that though Global warming is bad this global dimming actually stops some of the worst effects of the heat increase. But like everything it has a down side too this being that plantlife are not getting as much light as they used too and so harvests are reduced. Less moisture is being evaporated so less rain falls so crops fail.

We are playing with a very big machine that is our Earth and we do not know what we are doing nor do we know how to stop. Would it be ironic that we can reduce the amount of carbon and aerosols into our atmosphere and end up getting a lot hotter world as this truly artificial protection is removed.

Mace · 2005-08-31 12:52:35

Instead of paying all that money to up the paritcle ring up, lets just let spacecraft dump all their trash up there. Wouldn't a ring of spare parts, old ships, and soda cans be the same as a expensive particle ring? Plus we won't have to worry about bring trash back down to Earth or burning it in our atmosphere.

As for reflecting light back into space. What would be better is to pave our roads white. Then a huge amount of light would be sent bad into space. Also houses should have reflective rooves.

I know this is a little sidetracked, but wouldn't this be a blessing for Venus?

SpaceNut · 2005-09-02 09:21:28

Definitely more study is called for with regards to a global warming ewffect. The use of satelites to gather the much needed data is just a step.
Space Sensors Show Massive Surge In Chinese Air Pollution

The world's largest amount of the smog gas nitrogen dioxide (NO2) is hanging over Beijing and northeast China, according to images released by the European Space Agency (ESA) on Thursday.
Levels of NO2, a pollutant released by factories, power plants and vehicle exhausts, have risen by about 50 percent over China over the past decade as a result of spectacular economic growth and are continuing to increase, ESA said.

Couple with that the Exposure to NO2 in large quantities is known to cause lung damage and respiratory problems.

publiusr · 2005-09-08 14:17:24

Anything to get HLLVs built.

SpaceNut · 2005-09-13 11:19:43

Though we have talked about global warming in a few thread I felt it bewst to continue here.

You ever hear the joke of how green land is green and Iceland is well thought to have been covered in ice. Weel it seems the last laugh is really on us.
[url=http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9255431/]As Greenland gets warmer, glaciers retreat
Arctic nation is part of climate change debate [/url]

The frequency and size of the icefalls are a powerful reminder that the frozen sheet covering the world’s largest island is thinning — a glaring sign of global warming, many scientists say.

SpaceNut · 2005-09-27 12:48:14

Global warming is a factor but which chemical or are ther other causes for local effects.
We could use this proposal
Carbon Storage, Could Take In More Than A Third Of World Pollution By 2050

More than a third of annual emissions of carbon dioxide (CO2), the principal gas blamed for global warming,

SpaceNut · 2005-10-11 11:36:07

Seems there is no need for a ring...
North Sea Efficient Sink For Carbon Dioxide

A relatively large number of algae grow in the North Sea. These form the basis for a much richer food chain than that found in the Atlantic Ocean. Dutch-sponsored researcher Yann Bozec calculated that coastal seas such as the North Sea remove about three times as much carbon dioxide from the atmosphere than would be expected on the basis of their small surface area.

SpaceNut · 2005-10-31 09:13:46

Study: Arctic Undergoing Holistic Climate-Change Response

Wow that much ice cap shrinkage...

And there is more with the effects of global warming that shows up as a result as a cascading effect on the land, vegetation, animals, weather and human systems as well.

MarsDog · 2005-10-31 16:44:30

In preparation for lower CO2 concentrations,
in the future, as fossil fuels become depleted,
we need to quantify the effects of supergreenhouse gasses.

As an experiment, what would it take to raise global temperature by one °C ?
How many tons of what gas ?

reddragon · 2005-10-31 19:51:47

Wow that much ice cap shrinkage...
And there is more with the effects of global warming that shows up as a result as a cascading effect on the land, vegetation, animals, weather and human systems as well.

With all the evidence of change, especially in the arctic, it's crazy that we still have people denying global warming.

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