Political Potpourri VII - The Seventh Seal?

Palomar · 2005-06-28 09:28:18

*My, my...

What an interesting "coincidence" that no sooner does Pres. Bush invite reporters to visit Guantanamo, then all news stories and rumors and etc. about Gitmo essentially (and magically and mysteriously) *disappear*. Yep, ol' Gitmo has somehow suddenly vanished off the Yahoo! news radar.

As has most discussion about it.

Yes, hmmmmmm...what a coinkydink.

--Cindy

reddragon · 2005-06-28 09:34:25

One problem with leaving business regulation to the states comes in environmental regulation. Air and water pollution cross state boundaries. For example, air pollution from factories in the Midwest affects the Eastern states. Many rivers flow across multiple state boundaries, carrying the pollution of one state into another, perhaps better regulated, one. Federal regulations (when presidents actually care about the environment, anyway) help keep one state from polluting another. Without some of these regulations many states will be at odds over this issue.

clark · 2005-06-28 09:35:32

http://www.zaman.com/?bl=international& … ...n=21129

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/n … ...28.html

http://www.freep.com/news/nw/gitmo28e_2 … 050628.htm

http://159.54.226.83/apps/pbcs.dll/arti … pps....042

Ummm.... :laugh:

Palomar · 2005-06-28 09:55:33

essentially

*Guess the finer point was missed.

Oh, and the specific news source reference.

Ah well.

--Cindy

Josh Cryer · 2005-06-28 10:03:50

They may actually be taking his invite Cindy (it would take a week or two for the big news sources to do their stories). I surely hope so, it'll make an interesting 60 Minutes or Dateline.

clark · 2005-06-28 10:34:17

If Yahoo isn't reporting, then nothing must be happening?

To tell the truth, I found the way you stated your post to be rather funny:

What an interesting "coincidence" that no sooner does Pres. Bush invite reporters to visit Guantanamo, then all news stories and rumors and etc. about Gitmo essentially (and magically and mysteriously) *disappear*.

It sounded a bit conspiratorial, or threatening. Some reporters ask questions about a secret detention facility, and no sooner are they invited to said detention center and then suddenly "disappear".

That'll teach 'em to ask questions. :laugh:

ah well.

Palomar · 2005-06-28 10:43:04

They may actually be taking his invite Cindy (it would take a week or two for the big news sources to do their stories). I surely hope so, it'll make an interesting 60 Minutes or Dateline.

*As well they should. Gitmo had been dominating Yahoo! news for many days, always in the major headline section. That seems to have stopped abruptly after Bush's invitation...or at least slowed considerably.

The media are like a bunch of braying hound dogs who calm down once a biscuit is tossed at them.

I've also seen and heard less alarmist references to Guantanamo on TV.

--Cindy

P.S.: There was a major magazine article out late last week -- I forgot which magazine -- wherein former G detainees are alleging Koran abuse. Why should they be believed? That's all it is...an allegation. I'm rather...skeptical of the source.

Josh Cryer · 2005-06-28 10:58:54

The news media is sensationalist, they build up 90% of things that are largely insignificant. Most of us don't care about that girl in Auraba, but every time I talk to my mom, that's all she talks about.

If Gitmo is clean, or precieved clean, don't expect it to be anything big in the news anymore.

Palomar · 2005-06-28 11:04:51

The news media is sensationalist, they build up 90% of things that are largely insignificant. Most of us don't care about that girl in Auraba, but every time I talk to my mom, that's all she talks about.
If Gitmo is clean, or precieved clean, don't expect it to be anything big in the news anymore.

*Yes, I know.

I'm referring to the point that Bush called a bluff. Seems hardly anyone expected that...myself included. A challenge was made, he met it.

--Cindy

Josh Cryer · 2005-06-28 11:10:49

I haven't been in to politics much lately, but honestly, it seems like an easy call. Not hard to clean up a place if you have to. Sure, c'mon down, we'll have everyone lookin' just fine.

The real question is if the detainees get to be interviewed. Or if actual film is allowed to go into there.

Palomar · 2005-06-28 11:20:30

I haven't been in to politics much lately, but honestly, it seems like an easy call. Not hard to clean up a place if you have to. Sure, c'mon down, we'll have everyone lookin' just fine.
The real question is if the detainees get to be interviewed. Or if actual film is allowed to go into there.

*And there's the rub. The media goes on a feeding frenzy, if they repeat something often enough it's more easily believed, they can't prove it either way (we can't go back in time now and yes -- things could be "rearranged" and cleaned up), etc. No matter what the Admin does now, the seed of doubt has been planted. That's not necessarily a bad thing, if taken to a reasonable -- and NONsensational -- level (question authority). But again, I'm surprised Bush called their bluff. And even if detainees at Guantanamo have been treated rather well, enough innuendo and suspicion has been thrown onto it that most people wouldn't believe a good report anyhow.

Shades of Abu Ghraib, etc. Again, I really doubt the Admin and people in charge of Guantanamo would have taken even a whisper of a chance of something awful, horrible and unforgiveable like AG to happen again.

And of course I could be wrong. :-\

If I were a reporter, I'd have taken the first airplane out the second Bush's invitation came across the wire.

But the gist of it is, people were calling for the ability of reporters to go and check it out. He's stepped up to that challenge. Surprise! (?)

--Cindy

::EDIT:: Oh no... :-\

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20050628/wl … 194245]New allegations: Detainees/secret prisoners on U.S. warships?

BWhite · 2005-06-28 22:21:56

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050628/pl_ … udges_dc]I love Harry Reid

Nominate any of these four GOP-ers to the Supreme Court and they get an upper-down vote.

= = =

I saw two John Thune signs on I-90 (home town and current town)

Daschle losing may be the best thing that ever happened to the Democrats (open a spot for Reid)

Edited By BWhite on 1120019023

Josh Cryer · 2005-06-29 00:27:00

Bush finally admitted tonight http://www.bayoubuzz.com/articles.aspx?aid=4324]during his speech basically what I've been saying since the Iraq war began.

Iraq is a honeypot for terrorists.

Discuss. Try to pick out the relevant quotes. They're in there.

Rxke · 2005-06-29 05:32:43

Then why wasn't the UN allowed to make inspections?
It's a trick as old as war-reporting: innvite selected press, on a selected date and show them prisoners footballing, guards eat the same healthy food as the prisoners, etc.
Right from the book. Word by word.

Oh, of course it's allegations. Of course they can't prove it. Inmates have no camera's, or advocates. It'll always be their word againt a whole government.

clark · 2005-06-29 05:46:22

honeypot? Nerd.

"After September the 11th, I made a commitment to the American people: This nation will not wait to be attacked again. We will defend our freedom. We will take the fight to the enemy. Iraq is the latest battlefield in this war. "

" There is only one course of action against them: to defeat them abroad before they attack us at home. The commander in charge of coalition operations in Iraq -- who is also senior commander at this base -- General John Vines, put it well the other day. He said: "We either deal with terrorism and this extremism abroad, or we deal with it when it comes to us.""

His speech was politcal bombast. The equivilent of a pep talk at half time.

He didn't say anything new, didn't outline any strategy (other than what we are doing now), and didn't provide any new insight into how things will improve.

But at least the monkey danced.

Cobra Commander · 2005-06-29 05:46:51

::EDIT:: Oh no... :-\
New allegations: Detainees/secret prisoners on U.S. warships?

I guess it's time to come clean. I have it on good authority that the gist of this is right, but some of the details are wrong. See, what's really going on is that the media fury over Gitmo was intentional to draw attention away from the real gulag. It isn't prison ships though, the US Army Corps of Engineers raised the lost continent of Lemuria and are housing the prisoners there. The entire island is being hidden with ancient shaman invisibility spells, the only reason a shred of it leaked is because some CIA noob used a satellite phone instead of the authorized method of communication on such matters, telepathic link in a jive dialect of Navajo.

What? When I say it it's silly but we have to take the UN seriously? Sounds like a Tom Clancy novel.

Ooh! Secret prison submarines with silent propulsion systems. Yeah, somebody take a memo.

And let's not even get started on the real reasons for the Moon-Mars initiative.

Nominate any of these four GOP-ers to the Supreme Court and they get an upper-down vote.

Speaking of silly. So Ol' Harry Reid thinks he's gonna pick Bush's Supreme Court nominees eh? One, Bush isn't gonna go for it. Two, if we're going to start the precedent that the Senate pre-nominates the President's nominees it's gonna make for some real chaotic shit-storm fun when the balance shifts.

But for the moment, I think you're missing something. Depending on what Bush does, and judging by his past stubborness it'll be something good, Reid may have stepped in a punji pit on this one. Say Bush nominates right now Reids picks to lower courts, along with a whole new slew of hard conservatives, are they all "extraordinary circumstances?" It will look like Bush is trying to compromise while the Dems are being childish assess. If they yield on a few of the others to placate the moderate electorate they'll piss off their base.

They're being set up. They're building the gallows they'll hang from.

Bush finally admitted tonight during his speech basically what I've been saying since the Iraq war began.
Iraq is a honeypot for terrorists.

Well, if by "honeypot" you mean big fight in a place of the enemies choosing that we can't afford to lose then yes, Iraq is a honeypot for terrorists.

This is essentially the old "flypaper" position that was floating at the beginning of the war, the general idea being that the invasion will attract terrorists from across the region to that one country, making it easier to kill them. While it isn't really that simple, Iraq is certainly not a magical terrorist paradise.

clark · 2005-06-29 06:02:16

Supreme Justice:

http://www.freestarmedia.com/hotellostl … erty2.html

Weare, New Hampshire (PRWEB) Could a hotel be built on the land owned by Supreme Court Justice David H. Souter? A new ruling by the Supreme Court which was supported by Justice Souter himself itself might allow it. A private developer is seeking to use this very law to build a hotel on Souter's land.
Justice Souter's vote in the "Kelo vs. City of New London" decision allows city governments to take land from one private owner and give it to another if the government will generate greater tax revenue or other economic benefits when the land is developed by the new owner.
On Monday June 27, Logan Darrow Clements, faxed a request to Chip Meany the code enforcement officer of the Towne of Weare, New Hampshire seeking to start the application process to build a hotel on 34 Cilley Hill Road. This is the present location of Mr. Souter's home.

:laugh:

Palomar · 2005-06-29 06:06:51

Then why wasn't the UN allowed to make inspections?
It's a trick as old as war-reporting: innvite selected press, on a selected date and show them prisoners footballing, guards eat the same healthy food as the prisoners, etc.
Right from the book. Word by word.

Oh, of course it's allegations. Of course they can't prove it. Inmates have no camera's, or advocates. It'll always be their word againt a whole government.

*The UN?

Rik, what did the UN do for the victims of the recent Sudan/Darfur massacres (genocide)?

Nothing. Except sit around, making excuses and even claiming the atrocities in Sudan/Darfur wasn't genocide.

I haven't followed that particular situation recently. Maybe the UN finally has stepped in to assist the Sudan/Darfur victims. But for a long time they did *nothing* -- while hundreds, if not thousands, of innocent and helpless people in the Sudan/Darfur region were ruthlessly butchered by Islamic terrorists.

Why trust the UN? Their record is abyssmal.

Why trust the U.S. Govt? Why trust the word of the detainees?

If anything, send in independent reporters...from the get-go and periodically. And yet people will still not be satisfied.

--Cindy

Cobra Commander · 2005-06-29 06:07:54

Supreme Justice:
http://www.freestarmedia.com/hotellostl … erty2.html

Yep, it brought a grin to my face as well.

clark · 2005-06-29 06:19:14

But why stop there?

Why not get the city council of DC to declare eminent domain over all the federal buildings (leave the monuments)? DC routinely loses billions because they can’t tax the federal government.

Put in a Wal-Mart where the Supreme Court now stands. A Pottery Barn over at the State Department, and perhaps drill for oil where the White House currently stands.

That ought to bring in more tax, and more jobs for the local economy.

Like I said, I prefer to throw wrenches.

Cobra Commander · 2005-06-29 06:28:00

Put in a Wal-Mart where the Supreme Court now stands. A Pottery Barn over at the State Department, and perhaps drill for oil where the White House currently stands.

Get this guy a new set of wrenches.

Edited By Cobra Commander on 1120048110

Palomar · 2005-06-29 06:40:21

::EDIT:: Oh no... :-\
New allegations: Detainees/secret prisoners on U.S. warships?
I guess it's time to come clean. I have it on good authority that the gist of this is right, but some of the details are wrong. See, what's really going on is that the media fury over Gitmo was intentional to draw attention away from the real gulag.

*The timing of this new allegation is rather curious. Maybe a coincidence, but it does follow on the heels of that invitation.

Perhaps an instance of playing "up the ante" of rumormongering?

Perhaps the old "more bizarre = more desperate" thing?

Too bad the UN didn't go check the allegations of genocide in Sudan/Darfur quicker, before many thousands of people were slaughtered there by Islamic terrorists. They were rather quick to pounce on this by comparison, weren't they?

--Cindy

Cobra Commander · 2005-06-29 06:49:57

*The timing of this new allegation is rather curious. Maybe a coincidence, but it does follow on the heels of that invitation.

Almost like they know the Gitmo allegations were greatly exaggerated.

But I suppose that's paranoid nonsense, I momentarily forgot that the United States of America is the sole purveyor of paranoid conspiracies and obfuscation.

clark · 2005-06-29 06:52:41

No, not America. Just Bush.

Cobra Commander · 2005-06-29 07:11:46

No, not America. Just Bush.

My mistake. I'll make sure my scapegoat lens is more finely focused in the future.

But in all seriousness these allegations represent a very real problem. We've got Gitmo being protrayed as a gulag, America as an imperialist warmongering nation (it won't go away when Bush leaves office) and surely this isn't the last we've heard of prison ships and secret internment camps.

If it's all made up garbage, we have a PR disaster that not only hurts narrow US interests but Western interests in general and will get people killed unnecessarily. We have the UN, an organization shrouded in the ideals of freedom and human rights beaving exactly like the corrupt dictators club they are but with a measure of credibility. It bodes ill for the future.

But what if it isn't all made up nonsense? I'm not saying I believe the bulk of the allegations, but once a seed is planted it tends to grow. What if as this war against terrorists proceeds these things do start to happen? More arrests of US citizens, held without trial in secret locations. A network of clandestine interrogation facilities at the disposal of a shadow government, all in the name of fighting the vaguely defined "terrorism" that threatens us. Concentration camps, secret police, de facto repeal of the Bill of Rights.

Who would believe the warnings when they've already been sounded so vigorously over trifling things? The UN and the American media are at the moment running through the streets crying "Wolf! Wolf!" at the top of their lungs over nothing but a Wolfowitz. Who will listen when the real thing comes around?

If they're outright making it up, they're just fanning the flames of war for their own short-term gain. If there really is some terror beginning in America the overzealous screeching and flinging of wild accusations only serves to mask it when it truly appears.

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