Political Potpourri VI - (We crashed the last one)

Fledi · 2005-06-12 14:06:57

Language shouldn't be that much of a problem if there are mainly scientists in the center. They usually speak English nowadays.

Grypd · 2005-06-12 14:18:44

Interesting bit of news is that the French have called for an increase in military spending in the EU. This would give the EU economy a boost and allow it to be seen as a bigger player on the world stage. And they have also thought of an increase in military research too. :hm:

Fledi · 2005-06-12 15:25:37

Just sharing the research would be a major step towards being more efficient in this area. But it's already happening to a degree with the eurofighter or A400M.

Palomar · 2005-06-12 15:58:42

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050612/ap_ … gion]Texas Gov. Rick Perry: W Clone

*He was, of course, Pres. Bush's Lt. Governor. After Dubya's move to the White House, of course Perry stepped more fully into the limelight. I was immediately struck by how his mannerisms, voice projection/inflections, etc. mimick that of Dubya. Of course it'll probably work for him. He even puts a slight lisp on various words like Dubya.

Now he's doing the religious bit -- quite a lot.

--Cindy

Grypd · 2005-06-13 13:12:28

Just sharing the research would be a major step towards being more efficient in this area. But it's already happening to a degree with the eurofighter or A400M.

But with these large research groups a lot of politics becomes involved and well we have seen the result in the delays of the typhoon and now with the Airbus super jumbo being delayed for a further 6 months.

reasonable enpowered research groups are the best way to go and then to a dedicated manufacturing facility. Europe is too easy to spread out manufacturing just to give "jobs for the boys". and so gain a bit more political consensus.

Fledi · 2005-06-13 13:40:42

It is more about having the same equipment throughout Europe. It's easier to have only one type of super jumbo developed than everyone trying to do the same thing with a more limited local budget. I don't say it isn't possible to have a small local group doing one particular project and specialize in a certain area, but it seems to be a waste to do the same project for 3 or 4 times at different locations.
But you're right in that politics should stay out of the development and production decisions and only be customers for the products, just like commercial airlines.

Grypd · 2005-06-13 13:56:08

But the problem is that we get all the countries involved in the funding involved in designing the thing. Needless to say this leads to a lot of negociation and changes to design. So costs mount.

Its not about equipment but that in everything Europe tends to allocate "fairly" the research,construction contracts so that every country gets a share equal to what they put in of contracts. ESA works this way and so does Airbus. If we had one central group that would do the science and research needed without caring about borders or where the finance came from the benefits and cost reductions would be incredible.

BWhite · 2005-06-15 10:50:49

http://thinkprogress.org/index.php?p=1100]Link:

Freshly-released autopsy results reveal that Terri Shiavo was blind:
Pinellas-Pasco Medical Examiner Jon Thogmartin concluded that…her brain was about half of normal size when she died. …
Thogmartin says her brain was “profoundly atrophied” – and that the damage was “irreversable.” He also says, “The vision centers of her brain were dead” – meaning she was blind.
Which makes Dr. Frist’s expert “diagnosis” all the more outrageous:
Bill Frist (R-Tenn.), a renowned heart surgeon before becoming Senate majority leader, went to the floor late Thursday night for the second time in 12 hours to argue that Florida doctors had erred in saying Terri Schiavo is in a “persistent vegetative state.”
“I question it based on a review of the video footage which I spent an hour or so looking at last night in my office,” he said in a lengthy speech in which he quoted medical texts and standards.“She certainly seems to respond to visual stimuli.”

Wow, that gives me great confidence in the judgment of our Senate Majority Leader. :;):

= = =

From the Daily Show:

"You really shouldn't do this at home, but based on this video examination, Bill Frist is in a Persistent Vegetative State" ~ Jon Stewart

Edited By BWhite on 1118854708

BWhite · 2005-06-15 13:35:35

What if. . .

What if Rupert Murdoch did a 180 and cleaned house at the FOX network and told all the replacements to http://www.observer.com/pages/frontpage5.asp]support Hillary Clinton in 2008?

Won't happen. I'm just saying "what if"

clark · 2005-06-15 13:42:32

What if we found WMD's in Iraq.

Won't happen, but "what if"...

Cobra Commander · 2005-06-15 13:45:46

With reference to Bill's last post. . .

Using the Bill/Cobra pro-consul model. His supporters would denounce me as a fascist barbarian warmonger bent on world conquest. My supporters would call him a liberal socialist wackjob undermining the republic. I'd throw a bone or two to my people, he to his. . .

And at the end of the day we'd be sitting over a conference table working out solutions that are at least mutually palatable and workable with little concerns for our respective backers' bloodlust. Half of politics is projecting an image.

The other half is concealing it.

BWhite · 2005-06-15 13:56:55

Never pick a political fight with a guy who buys his ink by the barrel. And electrons are even cheaper.

= = =

Space exploration needs a media-savvy advocate.

clark · 2005-06-15 14:04:49

Never pick a political fight with a guy who buys his ink by the barrel. And electrons are even cheaper.

Never pick a politcal fight with a loud mouth malcontent.

Bill, Cobra... I'm looking at you.

Space exploration needs a media-savvy advocate.

Turn NASA TV into Space Reality TV.

Watch the Astronauts get picked, go through training, fail and succeed.

All the way to blast off.

BWhite · 2005-06-15 14:15:03

Space exploration needs a media-savvy advocate.
Turn NASA TV into Space Reality TV.
Watch the Astronauts get picked, go through training, fail and succeed.
All the way to blast off.

Nah.

The real story, humanity taking its first baby steps towards becoming a genuine spacefaring species, will sell - - > no problem.

Back in 1970 everyone knew that the Apollo race was over and was not heading towards permanent settlement. Apollo 12 and thereafter? Yawn. Why? It wasn't going to be permanent.

= = =

Another aphorism:

Good stories, well told, always sell. Always.

Zero gee dissection of frogs on board an ISS going endlessly in circles ain't a good story.

clark · 2005-06-15 14:25:17

Content is King?

Fair enough. I always thought a good idea was to gather a group of liked minded individuals with some talent or desire, to apply themselves at creating various media art related to human space exploration.

For starters, instead of discussing back and forth the political ramifications of this choice or that choice related to which launch vehicle is chosen for an illusionary and insubstantial space program, write short stories that bring the different possibilities alive.

I would imagine that the opportunities are endless, considering some of the possibilities available with free distribution. A webcast/ podcast radio play for starters. I might imagine that one “Prophet of Doom on the planet of endless dead bunnies” might make for an interesting romp.

Then there are images that can be rendered and created, from existing photos or simply from the imagination.

It’s fun to think about.

BWhite · 2005-06-15 14:42:42

http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0060391 … link]Story is King - - what's the story?

I like your idea, but I like my idea (we need a meta-narrative - - even if its a noble lie) more.

clark · 2005-06-15 14:51:11

I like your idea, but I like my idea (we need a meta-narrative - - even if its a noble lie) more.

What meta-narrative? It is too many things for too many people.

reddragon · 2005-06-15 15:24:51

"a noble lie"

Should we fake a moon landing?

BWhite · 2005-06-15 15:58:03

I like your idea, but I like my idea (we need a meta-narrative - - even if its a noble lie) more.
What meta-narrative? It is too many things for too many people.

Any meta-narrative that has "and then humanity went to the Moon and Mars, to stay" as the next chapter after the chapter we are living now.

Imagine being a writer of history in 2205 or 2375. Why did we of this century venture beyond Earth?

BWhite · 2005-06-15 15:59:30

"a noble lie"
Should we fake a moon landing?

More along the lines of "we need a Mars colony first so that 95% solar system isn't speaking Mandarin in 2475" kind of story.

Palomar · 2005-06-16 04:42:51

*Anyone see Bill O'Reilly last evening? I managed to catch (while channel surfing) his comments on an upcoming segment pertaining to Arnold Schwazenegger being hissed and jeered at a college speech (his alma mater) recently. Saw a Yahoo! article pertaining to it the day after, but can't recall many exact details.

Anyway, O'Reilly was slamming the reaction, had "Anti-Arnold" in big letters at the top of the screen, seemed indignant about it, etc.

Sheesh, I thought this was America. You know, where you don't "have to" like any particular politician nor his/her policies? Apparently we're supposed to be PRO-Arnold. Everyone should just nod along and smile...

--Cindy

clark · 2005-06-16 05:35:10

Imagine being a writer of history in 2205 or 2375. Why did we of this century venture beyond Earth?

Because we were incredibly crazy.

Cobra Commander · 2005-06-16 05:41:06

More along the lines of "we need a Mars colony first so that 95% solar system isn't speaking Mandarin in 2475" kind of story.

In the words of that Prophet of Doom, F**kin' a.

The "noble lie" is historically one of the best motivators a nation can muster.

Sheesh, I thought this was America. You know, where you don't "have to" like any particular politician nor his/her policies? Apparently we're supposed to be PRO-Arnold. Everyone should just nod along and smile...

I just nod and smile. This whole "Arnold as Governor" scenario is a Bizzaro world transplant, it's funny no matter how I look at it. The fact that he says things like "why should we listen to a bunch of losers" about his opponents or calls them "girly men" just makes it funnier. Despite the fact that on some level he has a point with both counts. It's as though he's already so comical that he can say things that would get "real" politicians skewered with no ill-effect, but still get them out there.

If nothing else, seeing Arnold at the Republican Convention talking about living under Soviet occupation made the whole mess worth it. Some things to think about and a dose of Bizzaro.

Rambling on, on the eve of the Iraq war I had a conversation with a military acquaintance regarding that "democracies don't start wars, so spreading democracy will bring peace" meme that was buzzing around at the time. He argued that in democratic nations the people are able to redress their grievances with government, enact policies that fulfill their needs and are able to get the full story on any situation making it harder for leaders to manipulate them into war.

I argued that democracy has the twin effects of handing the power to drive the course of events to the majority who are fickle and have never been the fountain of wisdom they're touted as and by exercising this power to increase their overall well-being they become soft and lose the will to fight, justly or otherwise.

He was forced to concede the point recently, based largely on public perceptions or Iraq. Always it's compared to Vietnam, but looking back farther we see the great battles of WWII, the D-Day invasion which turned the tide and cost many times over the number of casualties we've suffered over two years in Iraq. . . all in one day. But it broke the enemy and we freed half a continent. WWI, the American Civil War, the Revolution. It seems we don't have it in us anymore. Some will say that's a good thing, that we've moved on to something better. But I'm going to agree with the Major, never again will we be able to stand against a foe such as Nazi Germany or Imperial Japan. Next time, we'll make a deal. Next time we'll be Chamberlain.

Palomar · 2005-06-16 05:53:08

...seems we don't have it in us anymore. Some will say that's a good thing, that we've moved on to something better. But I'm going to agree with the Major, never again will we be able to stand against a foe such as Nazi Germany or Imperial Japan. Next time, we'll make a deal. Next time we'll be Chamberlain.

*First, back to Arnold. I don't understand why O'Reilly thought the reaction he received at that college was such a terrible thing. What's in it for O'Reilly to rush to Arnold's defense? Oh well.

Well...I think you're probably right. Sorry, but another adage comes to mind: Choose your battles wisely. Vietnam was not a war worth fighting, some folks feel the same about the Korean War (or "Conflict"...not sure why some folks no longer want to tag "War" onto it, though my father was a veteran of it).

Maybe we lose our will to fight when the fight seems pointless, hazily defined, or to the unscrupulous advantage of the wealthy and powerful, etc.

The politicians are to blame on this, too. As for Chamberlain, he sure was a coward. If Hitler wasn't a worthy foe to stand up against and fight I don't know who would be.

--Cindy

clark · 2005-06-16 05:54:30

But I'm going to agree with the Major, never again will we be able to stand against a foe such as Nazi Germany or Imperial Japan. Next time, we'll make a deal. Next time we'll be Chamberlain.

I would posit that since WW2, we have never fully disarmed. In relative terms, we have a smaller military in size compared to WW2, but in scope and in comparison to any other military, we exceed them all.

I don't think we will appease until we are forced to. Getting caught up in these foriegn adventures only saps our strength.

What you are seeing with the public perception is the result of people realizing that this war, Iraq, was not the grave threat it was made out to be.

After 9/11, people enlisted in droves. People understood the paramount threat that exsisted and the need for action. Iraq though, it was never fully justified, and time is proving that it was ill conceived and unneeded.

American's, as a majority, don't want Empire, but if they did, we wouldn't be having a problem enlisting people now. People would support any adventure.

If there is a threat to our nation though, our society unites together. When the action is just, when we feel secure in taking military action- such as the first Gulf War, the nation rallies together (liek Afghanistan- no one complains about Afghanistan, other than to say we should have finsihed there first).

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