Return to flight slipping

SpaceNut · 2005-04-14 10:56:25

If any have been following the return to flight process you then know that the shuttle Discovery has been moved and is in position for launch sometime in mid may to early june.

Part of the return to flight was a redesign of the External tank to remove foam debri and hopefully no ice from falling from it while being launched after fueling.

It appears that they have done a fueling test now that everything is fully assembled and on the launch pad.

I would have thought that it would have already been done so as to allow for last minute tank alterations to occur.

SpaceNut · 2005-04-15 09:55:11

It would appear that the tank test went well as planned.

NASA managers elated with shuttle fueling test

Engineers pumped more than 500,000 gallons of supercold rocket fuel into Discovery's external tank today and then monitored the tank and the shuttle's systems down to the T-minus 31-second mark in a mock countdown.
The goals of the exercise were to give the launch team a chance to rehearse launch-day procedures, to verify the operation of critical launch pad systems and to demonstrate the tank's foam insulation could stand up to the stress of ultra-low temperatures without any major ice buildups.

Revamped tank gets thumbs up; Safety changes work flawlessly during fueling test

The idea was to test $205 million in changes made since a wedge-shaped chunk of foam insulation broke free from one of the tank struts and opened up a deadly breach in Columbia's left wing. Hot gasses ripped the ship apart during re-entry.

SpaceNut · 2005-04-18 05:33:03

Here is a little tid bit of how Nasa is heading forward regardless to whether shuttle is safe or that it should even be used with the ISS let alone be the only way to finish it.

Shuttle thrusters potential hazard; 'Must fix' could destroy station

NASA is resuming shuttle flights to the International Space Station despite a known problem that could trigger the loss of both spacecraft and their crews, a risk deemed unacceptable by an agency safety panel.
There is a remote chance -- between one in 10,000 and one in 1 million -- that one of the shuttle's steering jets could inadvertently ignite while the orbiter is docked at the station, generating enough force to rip the joined spaceships apart.
Air would rush out of the station. There would be no time to escape. Astronauts on the shuttle and station likely would be killed, according to NASA documents obtained by FLORIDA TODAY under the Freedom of Information Act.

Managers wonder whether it is worthwhile to replace the wiring or to spend $36 million and three years to redesign the thruster system, given the low probability of failure. The shuttles are scheduled to retire in 2010.

NASA managers have known since the early 1980s that thrusters could fire inadvertently. It's happened five times when shuttles were not docked to another spacecraft.
Since 1995, when shuttles began docking at Russia's former Mir space station, astronauts have controlled the hazard by turning off jet power when spaceships are joined in orbit. NASA has continued that practice during dockings at the international station.

SpaceNut · 2005-04-19 08:06:49

Stong statements from Griffin at the helm Discovery might fly without board OK

Griffin outlines NASA priorities

The decision on when to resume shuttle launches will rest on the recommendations of NASA's line engineers, not on advisory panels, new NASA Administrator Michael Griffin said Monday.

Ad Astra · 2005-04-19 15:43:51

Griffin is an engineer, so his instinct is to trust his engineers the most. I've found many of the advisory panel's recommendations to be impractical or worthless. If I were a shuttle astronaut I would put zero faith in any of the repair techniques being developed for the shuttle TPS, yet that was part of the CAIB recommendations.

Of course, if they'd have listened to the engineers in Jan '86, Challenger would never have been launched on that cold Tuesday morning. Engineers have a knack for knowing if something is safe to fly. It's part of their job, and NASA engineers are no slouches.

Admiral_Ritt · 2005-04-28 16:43:23

New problems with Shuttle readyness. Same old Same old,
It's the foam insulation harzzard during launch. This is going
to haunt NASA as long as the Shuttle program exists. They
know what would happen if another shuttle took a mortal hit
even if the crew aborted to the ISS. End of Program.

Maybe the old ESA Lab module could be modified into a Life Boat. IF it's totaly power independent and has it's own
Life support plant maybe it could be attached to a spare
docking space on the ISS.

SpaceNut · 2005-04-28 20:16:49

NASA mulls delaying space shuttle launch to July

Actual problem:

The primary problem facing program managers is the potential threat of ice debris shaking off the external fuel tank during launch and causing impact damage to the shuttle's heat-shield tiles or wing leading edge panels.
But recent testing shows ice buildups in two areas of the tank still pose a threat. One of those areas is in the so-called intertank region between the upper oxygen tank and the lower hydrogen tank where an oxygen feedline bellows is located. The bellows allows the line to flex slightly during launch.
The testing shows ice can build up on the bellows or on a bracket holding the line in place. Another ice problem area is near the tip of the tank around a bracket that holds a repressurization line.

possible solutions:

NASA plans to install at least one heater on the next shuttle tank to eliminate the problem and they may opt to go ahead and do the same for Discovery's tank. Other options under discussion include the use of infrared spotlights near the pad to help prevent ice formation, but those plans are not yet mature.

The what if:

If a heater must be installed, Discovery would have to be hauled back to the Vehicle Assembly Building, which would rule out a launch during the May-June window.

On the note of using the ESA module, it would not have the needed shielding to widthstand micrometer impact or radiation penitration.

SpaceNut · 2005-05-11 11:17:08

One could say that the shuttle is in progress even if only back to the VAB for an External tank change out and retest once back out to the launch site.
There are some additional modifications being made to reduce more Ice build up on lines this time but after the testing who knows what else might or may need to be done.
NASA Space Shuttle Processing Report 9 May 2005

SpaceNut · 2005-05-12 10:57:45

We all know that even after the return to flight is successful that the shuttle's early retirement is dependent on the flights it has remaining to complete the ISS.

Shuttle's Retirement May Affect ISS Construction, NASA Chief Says

NASA Administrator Michael Griffin said that while completing the ISS is a major goal of both, the agency’s return to flight effort and its exploration vision, meeting the challenge by the 2010 deadline may prove difficult.
“We may not be able to make the exact completion date that we desire,” Griffin told reporters during a recent shuttle update. “But we will complete it.”

Part of the answer is contained within the question as to defining what is complete and the second part is which items must or can only use the shuttle.

Griffin and other NASA spaceflight officials said the agency will accelerate plans for the shuttle’s successor, dubbed the Crew Exploration Vehicle (CEV), in hopes of minimizing – if not completely closing – any gap in NASA’s human spaceflight capability. NASA had previously expected the first human-carrying CEV flight no earlier than 2014.

While minimizing the gap of manned space flight. He has called for a review of the CEV and has put it on hold sort of until it is clearer in its defined terms for what is needed and when.

The waiting list of delivered but grounded hardware includes the P4 truss segment, additional trusses, the Node 2 module, the Japanese Experiment Module Kibo and the European-built Cupola. While I am not sure how many flight this all is I would surely be hoping mad if my item that was built and delivered never made it to the station due to the shuttle.

SpaceNut · 2005-05-13 10:26:10

Science and Space Hearing:
Human Spaceflight: The Space Shuttle and Beyond
The Senate Commerce Committee's Science and Space Subcommittee has scheduled a hearing on Human Space Flight: The Space Shuttle and Beyond for Wednesday, May 18, 2005, at 10:30 a.m. in room 253 of the Russell Building. Senator Hutchison will chair this subcommittee hearing.

SpaceNut · 2005-05-19 11:02:04

The outcome of testimony from the as it spacepolitics says, a whirlwind of a "lightning round".

The testimony can be found here at the Human Spaceflight: The Space Shuttle and Beyond just follow each panels members link.

Shuttle Engineers Expect Smooth Tank Swap for Discovery

But what has the most recent safety tank replacement cost over run been?

SpaceNut · 2005-06-01 09:49:13

I probably should post this to its own topic but as it relates to the shuttle's return to flight, I will put it here.

The inspection process for the RCC tiles were to use the new canadian arm and some special tools or instruments. Just a little while ago I was viewing the Nasawatch pages and came across this.

Mini-Aercam Rush Procurement
- NASA Presolicitation Notice: Mini-Aercam Cold Gas Thruster Valve
- NASA Presolicitation Notice: Mini-Aercam Pressure Tank
- NASA Presolicitation Notice: Mini-Aercam Communications Antenna
"The Aercam is a Return to Flight item and is on a very tight schedule. Due to the current tight scheduling for AERCam, the fact that AERCam is Return to Flight, and the subsequent runs required for this design, there cannot be any delays to the schedule or duplicative costs."

I sort of wondered about the editors notes:

Editor's note: When did Mini-Aercam become an RTF Item? RTF (STS-114) is now planned for NET 13 July 2005. That's 45 days from today. It was originally planned for the third week in May. A check of recent NASA procurement notices show none issued for Aercam work in 2005. Why wasn't this series of procurement notices issued in, say, early April 2005, a similar period of time before the original RTF date? Did NASA suddenly find a problem with Mini-Aercam - or was Aercam added as a RTF item in the past few weeks? In a press event a year or so ago, I asked a JSC official specifically why this (very cool) system was not being used for RTF. They said that it was not being funded for RTF, but could not provide a reason why.

Then I remembered on one occasion sending an email to nasa describing a simular item or at least the process. With there response almost a year ago...

email

----- Original Message -----
To: rtfsuggestions@nasa.gov
Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 12:39 PM
Subject: Return to flight Shuttle suggestion
I am still reading about the attempt to design a new boom and arm for a camera mounted inspection of the shuttle tile system while in orbit.
My thought is to create an altered jet pack based platform, with camera and remote control as well as the capability of remote viewing from the shuttle for the inspection.
Astronaut does a space walk into the cargo bay to release unit or to retrieve it and to secure the platform when done with the inspection process.
Sincerely yours
Harold LaValley
Thank you for your return to flight suggestion.
NASA is working on the technology of having a robot type camera to fly around the vehicle for the near future, AERCam (Autonomous Extravehicular Robotic Camera). You can visit the AERCam website to learn more, visit http://aercam.nasa.gov/.
In addition NASA is currently working on various inspection and repair capabilities during flights as part of the shuttle return to flight activities.
NASA appreciates your continued support of the human space flight program as we work diligently to return to flight safely.

SpaceNut · 2005-06-08 05:18:07

Determined that flights will occur NASA Adds French Shuttle Landing Site a move that should give the space agency more options for a safe touchdown should one of its space shuttles encounter a serious problem during launch.

It would appear that this change is along the normal flight path that it takes on its inclination of 28.5 degrees relative to the equator.

One might note that no shuttle has ever aborted to any of these sites ever.

SpaceNut · 2005-06-16 09:44:25

Well Nasa has a news release onNASA Successfully Demonstrates Innovative Nanosatellite System on the previously mentioned inspection system Miniature Autonomous Extravehicular Robotic Camera.

SpaceNut · 2005-06-17 05:24:01

While the last shuttle did meet its doom and that some experiments did yield some data. The remainder however incomplete or damaged where recently redone with the help of Russian space lab ferries experiments back to Earth as well as others that had been on a russian vehicle that had blown up as well.

An international collection of experiments safely returned to Earth today with a fiery sunrise re-entry aboard the recoverable Foton space capsule after spending over two weeks conducting operations and studies in orbit.
After a fall through the atmosphere protected by an ablative head shield, three parachutes were deployed to slow the entry vehicle prior to touchdown. While descending toward the ground under the main parachute, the Foton was to have fired braking rockets to further cushion the impact.
Inside the return capsule was a wide variety of international experiments designed to take advantage of the microgravity environment for research in many scientific disciplines, engineering tests, and technology demonstrations. The Foton was packed with a total of about 1,200 pounds of payloads mainly from European nations.

There was an oxygen generation unit and lots of other stuff please all read on for it has lots of details on the mission in the article.

SpaceNut · 2005-06-20 09:04:04

[url=http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,600142807,00.html] Fix-it kit headed to space

Using Thiokol innovation, astronauts can repair damage to shuttle's wing[/url]

Well in one of my posts I mentioned that a backing must be placed into the hole when it is larger than a softball. It would seem that a combination device much like a wall anchor and plug would fit the bill for starting the patching process.

Love the cev model on the desk otherwise known as the stick.

Yang Liwei Rocket · 2005-07-15 18:53:45

If they can't launch before July

the next possibilities for the USA getting people back into space are the STS-shuttle launch windows in September

or else start asking the Russian rockets at Baikonour, Burt Rutan or the Soyuz at French Guiana for a lift into Space ??

Yang Liwei Rocket · 2005-09-08 19:37:22

very good that the last Shuttle flight done so well even if there were debris falling off and tile problems
the last mission was very good and they did a spacewalk repair

here's info on the next launch:

HURRICANE Katrina will cost NASA at least $US1.1 billion ($1.4 billion), the space agency said in its first assessment of the toll at its facilities along the Gulf of Mexico.

The storm was likely to set back NASA's plans for another shuttle launch next year.

The hurricane hit the Michoud Assembly Facility in New Orleans, which assembles shuttle fuel tanks, and the Stennis Space Centre in Bay St. Louis, Mississippi, which tests shuttle rocket motors.

"You can't just watch it on TV and get a feel for the devastation that I have seen down here on the Gulf Coast," the head of NASA's hurricane recovery efforts, Bill Parsons, said. "It's just unbelievable ? our first priority is to take care of our people."

Bill Gerstenmaier, NASA's newly named associate administrator for space operations, put the preliminary damage estimate at $US1.1 billion, but it was unclear whether that figure included the cost of lost production as well as damage to facilities and equipment.

The agency is still assessing the storm's impact to its work force.

SpaceNut · 2005-09-09 05:14:05

The discusion of this is actually ongoing in the next flights thread.
Shuttle ST-121 Atlantis of which not only was there this possibility of delay for a year but also that the next vehicle to be relaunched would be Discovery again under the guise of more testing of foam debri solutions. We have retruned to flight but with a very big bump in the road.

EuroLauncher · 2006-01-19 05:12:03

Mars may have to wait
http://toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/ar … /512250301
In Houston, at NASA's Johnson Space Center, scientists are talking about the crops that intrepid space travelers will grow when they travel to Mars.
But in Washington there's concern that the space agency's projected budget deficits may keep this country's space exploration, if not grounded, at least severely curtailed.

GCNRevenger · 2006-01-19 05:44:31

The current cost ballooning is due to the combination of two primary factors, one being that for CEV to fly by 2012 then real work has to start on it now and this costs real money. The second, the Shuttle program costs continue to balloon out of control, but due to the sheer complexity of the enterprise and tax contributions to particular Congressional districts, NASA is unable to make meaningful cuts.

cIclops · 2006-01-19 07:50:58

The current cost ballooning is due to the combination of two primary factors, one being that for CEV to fly by 2012 then real work has to start on it now and this costs real money. The second, the Shuttle program costs continue to balloon out of control, but due to the sheer complexity of the enterprise and tax contributions to particular Congressional districts, NASA is unable to make meaningful cuts.

Got any hard cost numbers to share? even NASA ones will do

--
spacewiki

GCNRevenger · 2006-01-19 10:22:50

There are plenty of figures floating around... like $3Bn/yr for TheStick and the CEV capsule/service module, and at least $4.5Bn for Shuttle. Historically, the Shuttle program gets more expensive every time something is changed or any time that NASA invests more effort into keeping it from blowing up. Combine this with the insane cost of rebuilding Michoud and Stennis following the hurricanes (probobly some price gouging and hidden costs here), could easily burn another billion a year.

Its hard to discuss in words just how big and complex of a business Shuttle is, which has become so extreme that no single person can really truely understand... This is a bad thing, that having a project too cumbersome and too difficult to keep under control is just as bad as a technical limitation.

New Mars Forums

Announcement

#201 2005-04-14 10:56:25

Re: Return to flight slipping

#202 2005-04-15 09:55:11

Re: Return to flight slipping

#203 2005-04-18 05:33:03

Re: Return to flight slipping

#204 2005-04-19 08:06:49

Re: Return to flight slipping

#205 2005-04-19 15:43:51

Re: Return to flight slipping

#206 2005-04-28 16:43:23

Re: Return to flight slipping

#207 2005-04-28 20:16:49

Re: Return to flight slipping

#208 2005-05-11 11:17:08

Re: Return to flight slipping

#209 2005-05-12 10:57:45

Re: Return to flight slipping

#210 2005-05-13 10:26:10

Re: Return to flight slipping

#211 2005-05-19 11:02:04

Re: Return to flight slipping

#212 2005-06-01 09:49:13

Re: Return to flight slipping

#213 2005-06-08 05:18:07

Re: Return to flight slipping

#214 2005-06-16 09:44:25

Re: Return to flight slipping

#215 2005-06-17 05:24:01

Re: Return to flight slipping

#216 2005-06-20 09:04:04

Re: Return to flight slipping

#217 2005-07-15 18:53:45

Re: Return to flight slipping

#218 2005-09-08 19:37:22

Re: Return to flight slipping

#219 2005-09-09 05:14:05

Re: Return to flight slipping

#220 2006-01-19 05:12:03

Re: Return to flight slipping

#221 2006-01-19 05:44:31

Re: Return to flight slipping

#222 2006-01-19 07:50:58

Re: Return to flight slipping

#223 2006-01-19 10:22:50

Re: Return to flight slipping

Board footer