Apropos of Nothing *4*

Palomar · 2005-05-27 19:54:10

http://www.northjersey.com/page.php?qst … dnFlZUVFeX

kz]Buzz Aldrin says:
Feelings? Girls have feelings. Boys do things. :;):

*Could we have Neil Armstrong's input?

I have, on NASA videotape, a man -- associated with the Apollo program -- who mentioned Aldrin's intense displeasure at learning Armstrong would be the first to step foot on the Moon. This man asserted that Aldrin in fact objected quite strenuously to being 2nd in line to step out of the LEM, and actually made matters quite unpleasant for all around until it was reaffirmed that, as leader of the mission, Armstrong would be the first person on the Moon.

Seems like some feelings involved on Aldrin's part?

--Cindy

srmeaney · 2005-05-27 20:19:12

I notice your post comes with Help Schapelle Corbey on the bottom. Did you know they just sentanced her to 20 years for smuggling that 4kg bag of "grass". If they hadnt bungled the evidence, tossed the bag into the hands of her brother at the airport, and assorted other stupid things, it might even have been the death penalty.

Mad Grad Student · 2005-05-27 23:04:21

Ohhhhhhh, you wanted a serious answer.
So, in the end, no first thought at birth. Just reactions to stimulus. Some people never grow out of it, as numerous debates throughout the internet attest.

Deadly serious stuff, life. I'm always exceedingly serious about just about everything I say or do for some odd reason, frivolity just doesn't come naturally to me. Even when I'm kidding around I'm usually very serious about any points I make. What does this have to do with my post? Just about nothing.

Granted, one's brain isn't completely set in its final locked position at birth, but then again when is it? The brain is constantly developing at an insane pace right up until an individual's early 20s, and we can be reasonably sure that people are in fact concious even during this period. At least, I'm pretty sure that my brain is up and thinking right now. I'd bet, and remember that I'm not in any way qualified to say this, that first tought likely occurs somewhere in the third trimester of development, probably the seventh or eighth month give or take. That timeframe is when the mylen sheath starts being laid down between the brain cells and nerve conduction velocity skyrockets. That's when the processing power of the brain shoots up exponentially, enough to enable conciousness.

But conciousness by itself doesn't mean very much. Like you point out, many of the other brain functions are not yet in place (such as memory-creation), and humans possess very few relevant instincts at birth. For our first few years we become lean, mean learning machines, because we have to be. Humans and dolphins are both great at doing these things, but, as Cobra pointed out, dolphins are rather disadvantaged to utilize whatever intellect they have. Dolphins are the ultimate epicurians, wandering the seas with not a care in the world except finding food and having fun. It's nice to know that we set our sights on loftier goals.

Buzz Aldrin says:
Feelings? Girls have feelings. Boys do things.

Bah, I feel like I want to throw up every time I hear something like this, once again in all seriousness. There's a space in physics known as the Planck distance that's many, many times smaller than the radius of a hydrogen atom. It is the smallest distance any material object can possibly travel, and with misogynistic thinking you can almost go that far, but not quite. He was probably kidding around, I know, but it really really bugs me whenever people say stuff like this. I'd love to ask him "And why exactly do you do things if you don't feel about them?" Both feeling and doing are necessary, why exactly do we have to fight between the two?

Well, that's my take on it anyway.

Shaun Barrett · 2005-05-28 07:24:02

I can see both sides of this thing. I can see how the people who want to improve the human condition, by encouraging equality among us all, will see this as a retrograde step, some sort of betrayal. And largely because Aldrin is genuine hero material in most people's eyes.
On the other hand, I can see the other side as well, the side I think he was indulging in when he said those words to a youthful mixed audience.

I wholeheartedly sympathize with and support the idea of sexual equality in every department that matters - human rights, equal pay for equal work, and equal opportunity regardless of gender. But I also rejoice in the differences between males and females and I don't have any desire to 'paper over' those differences.

We all accept these days that everyone should be treated equally, or at least we damned well ought to! What many of us don't understand is that not all of us are capable of contributing equally, either in manner or degree. And who would want us to?
Young human males are not the same as young human females. They don't think the same way, they don't act the same way, and they don't feel the same way. Females communicate better, they mature more quickly, they learn faster in school at an earlier age, and they don't indulge in risk-taking activities to the same extent as males. Males do take risks, they communicate less readily, they engage in more physical contact based sports, and it's all because of their physically different brain structure and their different endocrinology.
You can pretend these differences don't exist if you like but you'll run into difficulties if you try it because you're denying a biological reality.

Of course boys have feelings! And Aldrin knows this as well as anyone else. To try to deny that is to deny an obvious emotional reality.
But in saying otherwise Aldrin plays to the young males in the audience who bond with other young males via their masculinity, their biological identity. You mightn't like it but it's very real, it's generationally perennial, and it's not going to go away. And it's not evil; it's tongue-in-cheek male to male rapport, celebrating the strengths of the male gender in gentle mockery of the female.
And don't think the human female doesn't join forces with her sisters to mock the male of the species. She certainly does!

It's all part of something we call the 'war of the sexes', which has been going on for a long time now. And while we recognize from history the dangers of allowing unfettered dominance of one sex by the other, and take steps to ensure we don't go back to that situation, we attempt to suppress these normal and natural sexual rivalries at our peril. Because, in doing so, we attempt to suppress our own biological nature.

Females, in general, have certain strengths and physiological advantages in certain departments that the average male doesn't have. And the reverse is also just as true.
I think we should be able to publicly mock each other's idiosyncracies and weaknesses, and brag about our own gender's innate strengths, without causing an eruption of finger-wagging political correctness.
As long as there is good humour in it, as long as there is underlying respect and affection, as long as it doesn't translate into actual physical or sociological repression of either sex, I believe it serves to bind us closer together - not drive us apart.

Let's not take ourselves too seriously - life's too short.

Palomar · 2005-05-28 07:31:32

*Further proof of the Culture War in America, IMO.

Jews at the Air Force Academy are being harrassed and intimidated for not being Christians, including facing slurs and being called "Christ killers."

What's next? Black-face comedy coming back into fashion? Making fun of Native Americans in cartoons?

I sure hope not.

Perhaps Bill was spot-on regarding his recent "Political Potpourri" comment about the rise of "the Taliban" in America.

--Cindy

dicktice · 2005-05-28 17:15:31

I think we should take ourselves VERY seriously. Sentient life is all too rare in the accessible universe to be squandered by after-life indoctrinated know-nothings.

Mad Grad Student · 2005-05-29 23:55:00

Shaun, do I hear a lecture coming on? Point taken, I'll stop rubbing everyone's nose in my age.

Granted, if you survey the general population on various attributes you'll find that one gender is at an advantage compared to the other in certain areas. As you mentioned, females develop communication skills faster, while males tend to develop spatial and nonverbal skills more quickly. However, what works for a general population does not necessarily apply to an individual. Whether or not the female population has an appalingly low representation in math and science fields has absolutely zero bearing on how capable someone like Eileen Collins is as an astronaut. Stereotyping is bad, something that we really ought to try to avoid.

Yes yes yes, I know what the "battle of the sexes" is. I'm not three years old anymore (I don't think I am anyway. Maybe I should check). That doesn't mean that I have to support the idea. I'm not a fan of bragging about a gender's inherant advantages or deriding the opposite's disadvantages. Personally I find this to be an exceedingly myopic activity that teaches one to view people in terms of averages amongst oceans of statistics rather than as people, warm, furry, living, breathing, feeling, dreaming humans, which incidentally is what most people happen to be. The funny thing is that brains tend to be split up about half and half between the genders. The brain is the only organ that has real importance as far as I'm concerned; in a sentient creature the rest is just dross. Now, if I'm considering courting this human I might be more discriminating in my tastes, but that's another topic.

Last year I had the most amazing English teacher. There's probably nothing to it, but I really think that you can tell someone who is exceptionally intelligent apart from the rest of the crowd whenever you watch them closely. People who are truly brilliant, at least in the direction I'm talking about, just have a certain nuance about them, a sense of ease talking about the most esoteric subjects, a certain glint in their eyes, what have you. I could be dreaming this all up in my head, but it seemed to me that my teacher had some of this je ne sais quoi.

I say this because this fantastically capable woman has gone on to teach high school English. Now, this suits me just fine, and I'm very greatful to have been in her class, but stop and think about how many stories there are like this. She could have been a cosmologist, a rocket scientist, whatever, but chose to instead go into a field where she very likely will have much less impact on the world than might otherwise have been possible. The only thing that stopped her was some sort of seemingly-ingrained loathing of anything scientific. It's tough to design rockets if you regularly say phrases such as "I hate physics!"

The only reason I mention a story like this is because I can't help but wonder if that reflexive recoil from science isn't as ingrained as it might seem. Standardized tests have shown in the past that women do tend to score better in verbal areas than in nonverbal faculties such as math comprehension, but the differences between the genders are actually very small. Moreover, every scientific study ever done on the subject has shown that males and females have no difference whatsoever in overal cognitive ability. It makes you wonder: have we created a society that turns females away from science and technology.

I really hope I'm playing chicken-little Debbie-Downer here and am rattling on about nothing. In all likelihood, I am. There will always be a disparity in fields like engineering between the genders, and there will also be fields that always skew more towards women. It's a fact of life we can't escape any more than Newton's laws, but we should not read too much into it. We need to have a culture that is receptive to anyone pursuing any kind of career they please (provided it actually brings about some benefit to society, of course), and I'm happy to say that we're closer to that than ever before. Ah, what an age we live in.

I'm probably blowing this issue way out of proportion. I do apologize if I've just come off as being overly combatative; it's kind of a reflex of mine to do that. Oh, and if you ever meet my former English teacher, please don't tell her I said any of that. It would be a bit awkward when I'm asked to explain myself. :laugh:

Hey, the band's here!
:band:

Palomar · 2005-05-30 13:34:46

*Wow, am I ever in the mood to hit the beach. The nearest lake's (75 miles north) level has risen 14 feet from last year. We've had a drought, and 2 years ago that lake's water level was extremely low. Can't go up this weekend (or rather, don't want to) because everyone flocks there over Memorial Day Weekend; over 100,000 people. Don't like crowds, no thank you.

But by golly the radio is playing lots of Beach Boys songs ("Fun, Fun, Fun" the most recent to be played) and next weekend I want to hit the sand and surf, and get a tan.

We'll take the CD player and crank up Beach Boys tunes. :band:

Wooo-hoooo!

--Cindy

clark · 2005-05-31 05:55:38

I think we should be able to publicly mock each other's idiosyncracies and weaknesses, and brag about our own gender's innate strengths, without causing an eruption of finger-wagging political correctness.

That whole peeing while standing up is a good trick.

But as for this whole evolution thing and our differences, well, I still don't understand why men have nipples. Sure, I get why men have them, but why do men have nipples? What's the point?

Aw, nevermind.

Cobra Commander · 2005-05-31 06:32:02

well, I still don't understand why men have nipples.

So much for "intelligent design".

Palomar · 2005-05-31 07:05:53

*Our dog's personality changed after his mate died 3-1/2 years ago. When Ginger was alive, Prince was affable to strangers while Ginger was the guard dog. Now Prince isn't friendly to strangers anymore and hasn't been since shortly after her death.

The most noticeable difference, though, is how Prince takes a treat from our hands. Ginger used to chomp carelessly at the proferred treat, disregarding one's fingers: Ol' alligator yap. :laugh: Prince, OTOH, was careful, knew your fingers were there, and would delicately withdraw the treat.

Not anymore.

Soon after Ginger's death he turned into ol' alligator yap. I just fed him a potato chip a minute ago; he nearly caught my finger with it. :-\

--Cindy

Palomar · 2005-05-31 08:35:09

*Aw, my poor husband. He's got a lot of silver-gray hair. While eating breakfast at a restaurant this morning, an elderly man (late 70s/early 80s) walked up and put his hands on our table. He looked at my husband and said earnestly: "It's nice seeing a father taking his daughter out for breakfast."

My husband laughed. We're only 6 years apart.

On a different note: My husband was trying to remember the names of the Three Stooges: Manny, Moe and Jack. I said "No, that's the Pep Boys."

:laugh:

Now back to work!

--Cindy

BWhite · 2005-05-31 08:55:20

well, I still don't understand why men have nipples.
So much for "intelligent design".

Here is a more serious http://www.heartcenteronline.com/myhear … 306]kludge If we were intelligently designed, I want to file a claim under the warranty. ???

Building on earlier research, the Mayo Clinic researchers discovered a defect on a gene called RyR2 that may contribute to electrical problems in the heart. When these occur, the person may experience a brief abnormal heart rhythm, or arrhythmia, and faint momentarily.
If this occurs on the land, the person may fall and suffer minor bruising. While exploring the reason for fainting with a physician, the patient may eventually be diagnosed with a heart condition. However, even a brief episode of fainting while in the water may be fatal or cause a near-drowning accident that results in serious injury.

Edited By BWhite on 1117571875

clark · 2005-05-31 14:29:23

It's not covered. Should have gotten the extended.

Cobra Commander · 2005-06-01 13:37:17

I wake up and everything is status quo, by late afternoon Cindy has a stormtrooper avatar, my wife makes more money than me and the goat roast is on. What will tomorrow bring? :laugh:

clark · 2005-06-01 13:42:46

your emasculation, obviously.

Palomar · 2005-06-01 13:48:45

I wake up and everything is status quo, by late afternoon Cindy has a stormtrooper avatar, my wife makes more money than me and the goat roast is on. What will tomorrow bring? :laugh:

*It's a form of protest (not relative to anyone here and not necessarily political in scope).

And that's enough said I suppose.

--Cindy :;):

Cobra Commander · 2005-06-01 13:50:09

your emasculation, obviously.

Nothing insecure here.

Have some roasted goat.

Palomar · 2005-06-01 13:51:50

your emasculation, obviously.

*Oh look. Buzz is at the boards.

--Cindy

clark · 2005-06-01 13:56:05

wow. :laugh:

Cobra Commander · 2005-06-02 06:44:49

Eminent domain. Awhile ago a strange new fixture appeared in the far corner of my lawn overnight. A big, O.D. mailbox-like structure with USPS markings stamped on the side. They claim it's some kind of holding point to help the postmen that foot it all over the neighborhood, but we all know that there is in fact an oompa-loompa in there monitoring my phone and internet use.

And speaking of devious little creatures, I have seen the result of cats working cooperatively. They stack things to climb to otherwise inaccesable places, they pass and run interference for each other, they exploit each others strengths and weaknesses. Phobos, the smart one couldn't figure out how to open the screen but he sure did find a way to get the somewhat dimmer Deimos to run head first into it hard enough to punch it out. Then he stands outside, looking around and a little confused while Phobos calmly went out and grabbed whatever he was eyeing before returning. :hm:

Motorcycles should not tailgate semis. Police should clear wrecked motorcycles from the road.

I really need to start eating breakfast.

Palomar · 2005-06-02 07:30:34

*Speaking of cats, they were the first baby animals I saw being born. My parents took in a pregnant cat during the winter, when I was about 6 years old. Will never forget the sight of that "bubble" expanding then suddenly breaking silently open, and tiny kittens sliding out.

I'm in the mood to read some American literature from the 1930s, '40s and '50's. Harper Lee, John Steinbeck, Carson McCullers, etc. Might start with The Heart is a Lonely Hunter and Cannery Row. Haven't yet read To Kill a Mockingbird; I should. I don't think I've ever seen the movie starring Jimmy Stewart either. :-\

--Cindy

Grypd · 2005-06-02 10:30:33

Well this is post 1000 for me.

Better get myself a life

Cobra Commander · 2005-06-02 10:35:13

Well this is post 1000 for me.

You get another gold star.

Cobra Commander · 2005-06-02 12:31:54

Roundabouts, the latest fetish of our local traffic planners. A perfectly good intersection gets ripped up and replaced by this round, multi-laned abomination which of course no one has the slightest idea how to approach. Note to Department of Transportation, Americans don't do roundabouts. We have a hard enough time with the last stupid idea you guys came up with, the four way stop.

But at least you can pull up a chair and watch the chaos unfold.

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