Rockets: The Good, The Bad, The Ugly - (To heck with boring utilitarianism!)

Palomar · 2005-05-12 10:13:29

*Okay, I just now saw the design of a new space vehicle. Booooring. Looks like a rip-off of the shuttle [ :sleep: ], which itself is boring-looking enough to begin with. Everything's so vastly aerodynamic that there's little shape to it, then the 2-neutrals color schemes. :-\

Blah.

I go for those old-fashioned, bullet-shaped sci-fi rockets: Cherry red or metallic silver or sparkling aquamarine with grooved, tapered tailfins of a contrasting color.

:laugh:

What do you think?

--Cindy

C M Edwards · 2005-05-12 13:31:42

You're putting too much emphasis on fashion. Plenty of people are perfectly happy driving nondescript cars older than the space shuttle. Besides, when your vehicle's engines are already running at 5000 degrees with a million horsepower under the bell, adding more flare isn't physically possible.

What's needed is personalized rockets.

I agree about the color thing, though. Right now, NASA will launch any color rocket you want as long as it's bland white. The only exception is some crusted brown foam on a shuttle external tank - blech! (It used to be bland white, though, which was actually worse.) Whatever happened to that slick lunar module shine? How about one of those cool grey and red Indian jobs instead?

What about bumper stickers? I see no "If you can read this, introduce yourself" stickers on our space station. That's shameful. If my dad can drive around with an "I brake for asteroids" sticker, why can't NASA? (On second thought, don't answer that.)

Maybe a Garfield doll in the window? Or a Valentina Tereshkova doll in the same pose?

These ships need some character.

Palomar · 2005-05-12 13:44:27

You're putting too much emphasis on fashion. Plenty of people are perfectly happy driving nondescript cars older than the space shuttle. Besides, when your vehicle's engines are already running at 5000 degrees with a million horsepower under the bell, adding more flare isn't physically possible.

*Well, this thread is meant to be somewhat tongue-in-cheek (hence the Barbarella and Buck Rogers references).

But the shuttle really IS boring to look at. For nearly 30 years now, the same old thing.

If people truly are more impressed with appearances, as a political philosopher once opined, perhaps NASA could snazz things up >just a little<. Who knows, might knock some people out of their lethargy. Give it a bit of pizzazz and sparkle (along with real results)...we might not need another Soviet Union to get the show back on the road. :laugh:

And besides (yes, I admit) after all these years of being stuck in LEO, I'm getting desperate!

--Cindy :;):

reddragon · 2005-05-12 14:47:48

To tell the truth I'd never really thought about space-ship design from an artistic point of view before. I never really had any problem with how the space shuttle looked. I think there's enough important things that need to go into designing new vehicles without having the engineers worrying about whether it looks good. I do agree though that a less bland paint job shouldn't be any big hassle. (Although with the government doing it you never know.) I certainly wouldn't mind some more sci-fi looking spaceships (personally I'd like some X-wings and tie-fighters), but I think utility matters most. Ultimately I want something that can do the job. If it looks good too, that's an added bonus.

Grypd · 2005-05-12 15:21:36

Well I think a good looking rocket would be a benefit for the space program as it will increase peoples pride in it. Increase the pride and you get more support from my way of thinking.

Still a pure black rocket background with a single coloured arrow up the side with your countries insignia made into the design. Now that would be cool. trouble is I want it to be the saltire.

DanielCook · 2005-05-12 15:28:58

Continuing with the car metaphor, I believe, until we get past the more utilaterian stage (say Model T), it will be a while before we can get in the Italian designers for our nice sleek Ferraris...

Anyway, most engineers still believe in function over form.

Shaun Barrett · 2005-05-12 17:28:51

Hmmm, yes.
I think we've lost the plot when it comes to attractive rocket design. Those Nazis, who get richly-deserved and absolute condemnation for everything else they perpetrated, do manage to get 10/10 for rocket sculpting:-

This same basic but fundamental rocket shape was romanticized in the 1950s in various T.V. programs and in sci-fi literature - not least of which was Herge's Adventures Of Tintin, of course! :-

And as for the Saturn V ... well, we could spend hours lost in admiration for that magnificent creation, which scored huge points in almost all categories!
But we've covered that in another thread, I think.

Palomar · 2005-05-12 20:11:39

*Nice video, Shaun.

This same basic but fundamental rocket shape was romanticized in the 1950s in various T.V. programs and in sci-fi literature - not least of which was Herge's Adventures Of Tintin, of course!

Erm...part of that is familiar (put "Rin" in front of it). I'll have to Google for it tomorrow a.m. (getting very late, must get offline for the evening). Never heard of "Herge's Adventures of Tintin" ... and the photo (?) you posted won't show on this computer.

And as for the Saturn V ... well, we could spend hours lost in admiration for that magnificent creation, which scored huge points in almost all categories!
But we've covered that in another thread, I think.

Yep. I was very tempted to mention the Saturn V but was afraid I'd delve into pure idolatrous worship. It really was the Royalty of Rockets (in function as well as form!). It had least had 4 colors (if you count the red USA lettering) and the black markers really set it off.

On another note:

Permit me a bit of "fancy" please: There's a VW Beetle (new model) around here which has an odd paint job: Metallics, which change color depending on which way sunlight strikes the car as it drives. First it'll look copper then gold then olive/greenish then purplish then reddish-brown. :-\ I've never seen anything like it; what an eye catcher (and the new Bugs are so cute anyway). Imagine a rocket decked out like THAT -- multihued metallic, changing colors as it glides upwards! :laugh:

--Cindy

dicktice · 2005-05-12 20:11:57

You've got it wrong: The V2 was designed aerodynamically, to re-enter supersonically straight down so its warhead would go off on contact with the targeted (English) ground objectives. You couldn't hear it until after it arrived. Now, I hear that the Canadian Arrow Team has adopted the V2's LOX/Ethyl alcohol engine, suitably redesigned, for their current suborbital space program.
In the early Amazing Stories pulp magazines, I remember the Spacemen always having to get out through their airlocks in Spacesuits to re-line the multiple Rocket Tubes that stuck out in back, along with those tailfins. We understood that Rocket Tubes had a tendency to burn-out, from all that constant running. The Spaceships landed mostly on their bellies, and Rocket Fuel never seemed to be a problem. The entrance hatches resembled bankvault doors, tapering inwards. Nobody confused us with the facts of physics and rocket engineering, back in those days of Buck Rogers and Flash Gordon.

Shaun Barrett · 2005-05-13 01:33:46

Cindy:-

Never heard of "Herge's Adventures of Tintin" ... and the photo (?) you posted won't show on this computer.

Sorry the picture didn't show on your computer It's the full-colour cover of one of Herge's books about Tintin, which were marvellous stories, written in comic-book form with colour illustrations. But they were a cut above the average comic book, aimed at the well-informed schoolchild who appreciated a little substance to his/her fictional reading.

Just in case you're pressed for time, I tracked down http://www.lambiek.net/herge.htm]THIS SITE, which gives a brief biography of this amazing Belgian artist and story-teller.
But this site gives http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_pictures/3572603.stm]8 EXAMPLES OF HERGE'S ART.
I used to love the cartoons of Tintin on T.V. when I was a kid.

Cobra Commander · 2005-05-13 04:59:22

Well, as was mentioned earlier spacecraft designers have enough to worry about without trying to make their craft look "cool" and I'm more concerned with results than impressions.

That said, they couldn't have made the Shuttle look more like a winged refrigerator if they tried. Put a big Stars and Stripes motif on the wings, paint a shark mouth on it, paint it metallic red, whatever. I doubt making colored tiles is that hard.

But then a strong private sector space industry would take care of that to a degree. As long as it doesn't result in Mtv running a "Pimp my Ship" series.

Palomar · 2005-05-13 06:14:25

Cindy:-
Never heard of "Herge's Adventures of Tintin" ... and the photo (?) you posted won't show on this computer.
Sorry the picture didn't show on your computer It's the full-colour cover of one of Herge's books about Tintin, which were marvellous stories, written in comic-book form with colour illustrations. But they were a cut above the average comic book, aimed at the well-informed schoolchild who appreciated a little substance to his/her fictional reading.
Just in case you're pressed for time, I tracked down http://www.lambiek.net/herge.htm]THIS SITE, which gives a brief biography of this amazing Belgian artist and story-teller.
But this site gives http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_pictures/3572603.stm]8 EXAMPLES OF HERGE'S ART.
I used to love the cartoons of Tintin on T.V. when I was a kid.

*Thanks Shaun.

Sorry to read he suffered from bouts of depression. And fans were upset when Tintin appeared in blue jeans. :-\ The artistry looks somewhat familiar but there is no true recollection of having seen this before.

In the early Amazing Stories pulp magazines, I remember that the Spacemen always having to get out through the airlocks in their Spacesuits, to re-line the multiple Rocket Tubes that stuck out in back along with those long tailfins. We understood that those Rocket Tubes has a tendecy to burn out from all that constant running. They landed mostly on their bellies. Rocket Fuel never seemed to be a problem. The entrance hatches resembled bankvault doors, tapering inwards. Nobody confused us with facts, back in those days.

Hmmmmm. No UPRIGHT landings? Easier for takeoff. :;):

--Cindy

Mad Grad Student · 2005-05-13 18:22:08

The main reason why the shuttle is so bland to look at is because we've seen it over and over and over again for about 30 years now. It's become a symbol of everything space-related as far as the general public is concerned, and so it gets worked into just about everything that wants to look "cool," so to speak. Only among groups of space advocates such as New Mars is the shuttle scorned, as far as I can tell. Everyone else is either ambivalent, violently against, or mildly for space but don't know the difference between an Iridium flare and a barn door and hence view the shuttle as the poster child of NASA's positive accomplishments. Ah, the irony.

Maybe it's just me, but I have no problem with the asthetics of today's rockets. It's what the rocket symbolizes, not its "look," that makes it beautiful. These beasts spend months in construction, testing, and integration at the hands of bunny-suited technicians and then are filled full of volatile cryogenic fuel and launched fast enough to leave the planet. Entirely, forever. Is that wild or what?

Whenever I look at an image of a current launch vehicle I always mentally try to break it down and see its inner workings. There is absolutely nothing magical or ethereal about rockets, the whole field has now been reduced to a business that is integral to our daily economy. As far as I'm concerned that adds to the beauty of rocketry because we can fundamentally understand it. Launching rockets is without a doubt the single most impressive technical accomplishment humans have ever achieved so far. It may sound weird, but I always get a little bit of that warm fuzzy feeling inside for the human race every time I'm able to watch a webcast of a sattelite launch. Wait, that probably is just me.

True spacecraft themselves (sattelites, probes, etc) are also beautiful IMHO in their own way. Operating beyond the last vestiges of Earth's atmosphere they are completely unbound by wind resistance, weight, and the like, as anybody can see in their design. Sattelites are fascinating machines, part aircraft, part robot, part spaceship, they have to do many things and look great doing them. Besides, you just can't beat that polished-gold look.

srmeaney · 2005-05-13 19:44:45

I agree about the color thing, though. Right now, NASA will launch any color rocket you want as long as it's bland white. The only exception is some crusted brown foam on a shuttle external tank - blech! (It used to be bland white, though, which was actually worse.) Whatever happened to that slick lunar module shine? How about one of those cool grey and red Indian jobs instead?

I dare you to sneek in to the shuttle hanger, put your hand up against the tail and spraypak over it in blue like a hand negative on a cave wall.

Mad Grad Student · 2005-05-13 22:40:05

I agree about the color thing, though. Right now, NASA will launch any color rocket you want as long as it's bland white. The only exception is some crusted brown foam on a shuttle external tank - blech! (It used to be bland white, though, which was actually worse.) Whatever happened to that slick lunar module shine? How about one of those cool grey and red Indian jobs instead?

The Deltas do have that wonderful green insulation on them, at least that gives them some personality. It's tough to beat the ice-on-stainless-steel look of the old ballon-tank Atlases, but those days are over for now. I do like the idea of doing an aborigone handprint on the shuttle, I've often thought that it will be a wonderful touch if one of these days someone makes such an imprint on a Moon rock.

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#1 2005-05-12 10:13:29

Re: Rockets: The Good, The Bad, The Ugly - (To heck with boring utilitarianism!)

#2 2005-05-12 13:31:42

Re: Rockets: The Good, The Bad, The Ugly - (To heck with boring utilitarianism!)

#3 2005-05-12 13:44:27

Re: Rockets: The Good, The Bad, The Ugly - (To heck with boring utilitarianism!)

#4 2005-05-12 14:47:48

Re: Rockets: The Good, The Bad, The Ugly - (To heck with boring utilitarianism!)

#5 2005-05-12 15:21:36

Re: Rockets: The Good, The Bad, The Ugly - (To heck with boring utilitarianism!)

#6 2005-05-12 15:28:58

Re: Rockets: The Good, The Bad, The Ugly - (To heck with boring utilitarianism!)

#7 2005-05-12 17:28:51

Re: Rockets: The Good, The Bad, The Ugly - (To heck with boring utilitarianism!)

#8 2005-05-12 20:11:39

Re: Rockets: The Good, The Bad, The Ugly - (To heck with boring utilitarianism!)

#9 2005-05-12 20:11:57

Re: Rockets: The Good, The Bad, The Ugly - (To heck with boring utilitarianism!)

#10 2005-05-13 01:33:46

Re: Rockets: The Good, The Bad, The Ugly - (To heck with boring utilitarianism!)

#11 2005-05-13 04:59:22

Re: Rockets: The Good, The Bad, The Ugly - (To heck with boring utilitarianism!)

#12 2005-05-13 06:14:25

Re: Rockets: The Good, The Bad, The Ugly - (To heck with boring utilitarianism!)

#13 2005-05-13 18:22:08

Re: Rockets: The Good, The Bad, The Ugly - (To heck with boring utilitarianism!)

#14 2005-05-13 19:44:45

Re: Rockets: The Good, The Bad, The Ugly - (To heck with boring utilitarianism!)

#15 2005-05-13 22:40:05

Re: Rockets: The Good, The Bad, The Ugly - (To heck with boring utilitarianism!)

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