ISS Woes & To-Mars

Palomar · 2005-04-07 04:18:10

*Won't create a new thread for this 1 photo, and I'll put it here.

http://www.spaceflightnow.com/shuttle/s … iss/]Photo from ISS ("Hi, Cousin")

--Cindy

GCNRevenger · 2005-04-11 11:29:14

Gee, such productivity!

What do you bet that a mini-satelite built by a university group and tucked in with another commertial payload could do the same for well under $50M?

Palomar · 2005-04-11 15:30:08

Gee, such productivity!
What do you bet that a mini-satelite built by a university group and tucked in with another commertial payload could do the same for well under $50M?

:laugh:

Certainly can't disagree with you, GCN. The photo of Hurricane Ivan last year from ISS was spectacular. But as you point out...

Sad. We could be accomplishing so much MORE (understatement).

--Cindy

SpaceNut · 2005-04-14 11:28:57

Well the next crew for the ISS should launch tonight. The current crew should return by the 25th.
This next crew will welcome the shuttle when it does arrive sometime in mid May with a much awaited fan fare after nearly a 2 year hiatus from the station.

SpaceNut · 2005-04-18 06:44:24

Well the next crew has made it safely there but what of the last crew and its success or failure to which it was charged doing experiments until this crew arrived.

Any word on the snails? or other plant growth experiments?

SpaceNut · 2005-04-20 05:21:28

While we have talked about the oxygen waste water electrolysis machine wasting the hydrogen and that it was considered not of any value. I wonder if this is the step (see article Link to follow) that was missing in order to make it have value( cryogenic freezer). This same item could also be part of the lunar mining operations regolith heating to release oxygen to make the needed oxidizer for lunar reusuable ships possible.

University of Alabama at Birmingham lands $6.6M NASA contract for space station freezer for phase two construction of a cryogenic freezer to be used aboard the International Space Station.

UAB was among 10 groups that submitted proposals to NASA to design and build the General Laboratory Active Cryogenic ISS Experiment Refrigerator, or GLACIER.

GCNRevenger · 2005-04-20 06:25:01

There are different degrees of "cryogenic," where liquid oxygen and nitrogen are fairly easy to make and store, hydrogen is another matter. Liquid hydrogen is the second coldest "normal" stuff in the universe, and I it is quite difficult to make.

This device is simply a regular freezer, used for storing delicate chemical samples, and not for liquifying fuels. I doubt it could get cold enough.

srmeaney · 2005-04-20 08:28:57

ecrasez_l_infame Posted: Sep. 21 2004, 13:51
*Lots of recurring negative news in the press about ISS woes over this year (yeah I know the ISS has had troubles since prior to 2004...but the general public has a short-term memory).
Do you think this impacts greatly on the public's perceptions of the safety of space exploration?

Yes, the ISS is a bit of high maintenance. But considering that the ISS is little more than an engineering test bed, assembled by political disorganization, is it any wonder?

In fifty years you will be begging for a single space government that can control and direct all human effort in space. Otherwise we might as well weld the last surviving Space shuttle to the ISS, slap on a nuclear motor of dubious engineering standards and start shipping folks to Mars.

Palomar · 2005-04-20 08:34:48

In fifty years you will be begging

*Sweetie, 50 years from now I'll be almost 90. Likely the only thing I'll be begging for is "not more applesauce!" :;):

a single space government that can control and direct all human effort in space

That'd depend on what type of government. So many variables, so many changes to come/unforseeables. I'm still nurturing ideas of "share the land" and peace and rabbits and love on Mars...yeah, dream on I know. And we've other threads for political discussions.

Ultimately I agree with GCN on this count (or rather what I understand of his position on the matter): Let's get rid of the ISS. It's a waste of big money with very little science return.

--Cindy

srmeaney · 2005-04-20 09:13:47

Ultimately I agree with GCN on this count (or rather what I understand of his position on the matter): Let's get rid of the ISS. It's a waste of big money with very little science return.

So you dont see the ISS as a worst case scenario training Device for potential Space Colonists?

SpaceNut · 2005-04-20 10:41:45

As others have noted in that the ISS has little scienctific value I would then ask whats wrong with it and how might that setuation be corrected. For there was given justification for it and a proported purpose initially that allowed for funding even though some would consider this a make work program. It however was the secondary hidden agenda of those hiding the real truth of this action.

This article goes into the pitfalls of why we need to change how we accomplish and the need for Getting Space Exploration Right.

This is very well written from a historical analysis of the Apollo years and a direct contrasting of the shuttle ones. The presidents plan on conditions to set us on the way again towards exploration was in deed formated to redirect a lost organization or at least to inform the public that they could be doing so much more foir the same amount of dollars as had been accomplished within the Apollo era.

Now that we are on our way some hard choices have been made to cancel many a program, projects and probes inorder to free up resources and capitol dollars. Though these are not neccesarily large dollars to put back into the spiral developement of the CEV that is nice described within this article.

Then we get into how to get these spirals done quicker and to which ones are not need or should be combined with others. While all heading for the final goal line of Mars which will require a much large lifting capablility which is not part of the back to moon practice steps.

Some would say that not only should shuttle go but so should the ISS and to not care about the investment thus far or for the treaties that have been signed nor should we care how we get out of it but just do it inoder to get going to space once more.

The article is worth the read for it continues much farther on down the road than I should point at at this time.

GCNRevenger · 2005-04-20 10:43:59

Will only one national government control space? Doubtful, but it is very likly that one country... at the moment, the only one with the reasources... to take the lead. International "partnership," as in between equals, is not going to happen because of the differing political aims, management teams, and two sets of engineers that can't effectively integrate major systems. As far as a one-world government that controls and regulates space, thats not ever going to happen either, this world is still firmly nationalistic, and so will the next world.

Thank you for seeing the reason that NASA so desperatly needs to come to terms with Cindy... And no, I don't think the ISS is worthwhile as a "training site" because:
1: Its too expensive, just launch your Moon/Mars ship into orbit and fly it in circles until you are sure its safe.
2: Doesn't provide enough scientific returns to pay $2Bn (20% of NASA's disposable income) to keep it working
3: The future of the ISS's safety is dubious in my opinion

Grypd · 2005-04-20 15:09:54

When ESA first joined the partnership that was to be the ISS it planned for its columbus module would have been a lot larger and had its own power supply. It would also have been launched by the Arianne rather than the shuttle.

This plan was simply vetoed by NASA which only really allowed the Shuttle to deliver modules and structural components. Needless to say the Columbus module is a lot smaller than ESA originally planeed and it does not have its own power supply, its also sitting waiting to fly. Just like Japans science module.

GCNRevenger · 2005-04-20 15:36:23

Irrelivent. Even with a dozen full-sized modules with their own solar cells, the ISS would still be worthless and dangerous.

Commodore · 2005-04-20 16:18:59

Reguardless, the Euros, and prehapes more importantly, the Russians, are intent on making the most of it.

Even if it cost us a resupply and a couple CEV launches a year, it would still be better to keep our foot in the door.

GCNRevenger · 2005-04-20 16:31:28

They can try all they like, they will still fail.

Oh really? Why should we?

Martin_Tristar · 2005-04-20 19:50:59

ISS wasn't designed well to start off with !!!

But more damage could occur if NASA and American Government doesn't allow others to play in its sandbox. It could cost alot of new technology advancements, personnel sharing, information sharing and more. Suck the pride in and get on doing the right work and advancing humanity into space.

SpaceNut · 2005-04-21 05:28:10

Yesterday as noted

[url=http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewpr.html?pid=16695]Senate Hearing on Space Station Science
Sen. Hutchison Promises "Reinvigorated" NASA Subcommittee[/url]
"Sen. Hutchison initiated the idea to pursue a national laboratory designation for the ISS. NASA officials noted that they had begun to look at long-term plans for ISS utilization in 2003. At Sen. Hutchison's urging, the officials stated they will revisit those earlier planning efforts."
Senator Hutchison to Chair International Space Station Hearing

held hearing on the utilization of the station and to which questions where ask with regards to build process.

The Senate Commerce Committee's Science and Space Subcommittee International Space Station Research hearing page

This has all statements made by the panel members. They also have an audio archive link as well.
Will comment more later once I have had the chance to read or listen to what was discussed with station use.

Palomar · 2005-04-26 05:36:05

http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewpr.html?pid=16744]Oh puh-LEEZE

*No disrepect intended towards Dr. Chiao.

Will post this here, rather than create a new/different thread.

Well I'm a former McDonald's employee (while going to college and also holding down another part-time job in the college health office) and need I say working for McD's sucks? I was raised with the Midwestern work ethic and I'm no slacker. But I remember working long hours, even at age 21 being absolutely worn out by shift's end...and getting a piddly paycheck for all that hard work.

It's Dead-End-Jobsville.

I just CRINGE at seeing -any- corporation...

Seems they're trying to take a bit of credit for his success? Ha ha.

As part of the team, McDonald's crew members are taught valuable life lessons such as teamwork, education and leadership.

Yeah. And lots of work for little pay (read: exploitation).

McDonald's has received global recognition for creating opportunities for employees at all levels and of all ethnicities.

So do Michael Jordan and Kathy Lee Gifford (sweatshop labor).

These f*cking corporations take 99.9% and give back 0.01% (IF that much), then they push their mugs into every available camera and try to come off as being Good Humanitarians. :laugh: F*ck them.

--Cindy

SpaceNut · 2005-04-26 06:43:01

That same article could have also been placed under the advertizing thread as well. But you are right non the less about the many hours needed to work at minimum wage just to survive. Though minimum wages have increased the chance of trying to live off them are still dirt poor. I can remember working in resturants that you were paid farmers wages or what could also be known as standing wage 2.85 an hour. Or perhaps by the bushel basket of apples, quarts of strawberries or even a half bushel of low bush blueberries these were all typical summer jobs while still in high school.
Students now would never work so hard for so little pay but then again the elderly would say the same for us.

Now on the note of the ISS, the latest crew has arrived and the latter has departed but what did we gain for the last 6 plus month stay from this crew.
They stuggled though a food shortage and had lots of bumps along the way by the oxygen system but they did make it back ok.
They had plant and animal experiments that were returned from the station, hopefully with much success these experiments were run and to which the question that only the station could answer having forfilled this goal. But it was done on a very expensive dime.
Will continue this in the other threads.

SpaceNut · 2005-04-28 09:20:45

Well here is one way to handle the stress of being aboard the ISS but then again do we really want all those beer cans floating around inside or out of the station.

Nasawatch:

But Jim, I Thought That Stuff Was Illegal ...

Image of individual serving package
Russian Cosmonaut Says Alcohol Should Be Allowed on ISS, MosNews
"The Russian cosmonaut said that it would be "desirable" for spacemen to have 50 milliliters of wine or cognac every day. "But only to improve our work, to better cope with the psychological stress," Sharipov said."
Editor's note: Perhaps this is a good idea. It sure beats the alternatives if on-orbit "psychological stress" is allowed to go untreated ...
ISS Emergency Procedures: Behavioral - Suicidal -Emergency and Behavioral - Acute Psychosis
"Talk with the patient while you are restraining him. Explain what you are doing, and that you are using a restraint to ensure that he is safe. Restrain patient using Gray Tape around wrists, ankles, and use a bungee around the torso. Administer 5 mg *Valium (Diazepam) Oral (P1-A12) - Sedative, (blue) anticonvulsant, antiseizure drug"

SpaceNut · 2005-05-02 12:12:03

Well according to the Nasawatch NASA Space Station On-Orbit Status 29 April 2005 the Elektron Problems Continue to plague the station.
I also noticed that it is getting time for another orbit boost as well.

Mad Grad Student · 2005-05-02 22:54:31

One would think that after three decades worth of experience each with space stations from Salyut to Skylab to Mir that building and operating an outpost like the ISS would be old hat for either NASA or the Russian space agency alone, let alone with a multinational partnership to help out. Apparently not. The ISS is an object lesson in how really hard it is to do anything in space, and the headaches that bringing in too many heads on one project can cause. But no matter, JAXA, the ESA, and congress will not allow NASA at this point to cut its losses and pull out of the construction process, so we might as well make the most of it.

There has to be something of useful scientific value that the ISS can do besides subjecting astronauts to zero-gravity high-radiation conditions and seeing what happens. Prior to begining construction I remember NASA droning on and on about all of the wonderful things the ISS would do as a laboratory once finished, and later on that it could actually do all of these things provided an occupancy of at least five or six astronauts. I'm not an expert in zero-g product research but it seems to me that we've barely scratched the surface of all the wondrous discoveries that might be made in this unique (at least for now on the ISS) environment. Now, I'm not saying that it will help us on the road to colonizing the solar system, but there's still plenty of good work that could potentially be done on the ISS. Maybe in its origins it was just a justification for the shuttle, but hopefully we can turn it into something useful now that it's there.

I don't deny that the International Space Station, once completed, will contribute to Mars colonization about as much as NASA's aeronautics research, that is, pretty much nil. However, NASA is a big organization with many obligations to fullfill, space exploration and utilization is just one of them. Hopefully we can finish the ISS and pipe its budget into manned exploration as soon as possible, but until then there must be a better solution than merely sitting around deriding the station. NASA employs some of the best engineers and scientists in the world, they must be creative enough to think of something to do with a massive $100 billion orbital outpost. It sure seems like a heck of a waste of that money to just sit around wishing we'd never built the thing.

SpaceNut · 2005-05-03 05:08:12

Yup quite agree that we must do something with it since we have spent the money for it and that after completing it we will still be sinking funds into it for a very long period of time.
I started two different threads to keep track of some of the experimentation aboard the iss in the Iss Plant growth experiments; planning the future in 0g

Snails In Spaaaaaaaace! or animal threads.

But there are more categories I am sure that need to be created to track what knowledge we are gaining from utilizing the ISS, such as maybe a medical should be another thread to start or health.

SpaceNut · 2005-05-06 10:29:53

Well an attempt to fix the oxygen unit has failed but all seems safe so far.
NASA Space Station On-Orbit Status 5 May 2005

Lots of extra links to imagery and experimentations that are ongoing.

New Mars Forums

Announcement

#126 2005-04-07 04:18:10

Re: ISS Woes & To-Mars

#127 2005-04-11 11:29:14

Re: ISS Woes & To-Mars

#128 2005-04-11 15:30:08

Re: ISS Woes & To-Mars

#129 2005-04-14 11:28:57

Re: ISS Woes & To-Mars

#130 2005-04-18 06:44:24

Re: ISS Woes & To-Mars

#131 2005-04-20 05:21:28

Re: ISS Woes & To-Mars

#132 2005-04-20 06:25:01

Re: ISS Woes & To-Mars

#133 2005-04-20 08:28:57

Re: ISS Woes & To-Mars

#134 2005-04-20 08:34:48

Re: ISS Woes & To-Mars

#135 2005-04-20 09:13:47

Re: ISS Woes & To-Mars

#136 2005-04-20 10:41:45

Re: ISS Woes & To-Mars

#137 2005-04-20 10:43:59

Re: ISS Woes & To-Mars

#138 2005-04-20 15:09:54

Re: ISS Woes & To-Mars

#139 2005-04-20 15:36:23

Re: ISS Woes & To-Mars

#140 2005-04-20 16:18:59

Re: ISS Woes & To-Mars

#141 2005-04-20 16:31:28

Re: ISS Woes & To-Mars

#142 2005-04-20 19:50:59

Re: ISS Woes & To-Mars

#143 2005-04-21 05:28:10

Re: ISS Woes & To-Mars

#144 2005-04-26 05:36:05

Re: ISS Woes & To-Mars

#145 2005-04-26 06:43:01

Re: ISS Woes & To-Mars

#146 2005-04-28 09:20:45

Re: ISS Woes & To-Mars

#147 2005-05-02 12:12:03

Re: ISS Woes & To-Mars

#148 2005-05-02 22:54:31

Re: ISS Woes & To-Mars

#149 2005-05-03 05:08:12

Re: ISS Woes & To-Mars

#150 2005-05-06 10:29:53

Re: ISS Woes & To-Mars

Board footer