Genesis, Stardust, Etc.: Snag & Bag

Palomar · 2004-10-15 07:07:30

Heres]http://www.spacedaily.com/news/genesis-04v.html]Here's the latest...

*Scientists are unpacking the samples at Johnson Space Center. Apparently they are "upbeat" about the prospects of salvaging science from the samples recovered.

"The facility counted more than 3,000 tracking numbers for the containers that hold pieces of wafers from the five collector panels. The panels secured samples of atoms and ions from the solar wind..."

Says some containers have as many as 96 pieces of wafers.

"Planning is under way for preliminary examination of the samples to prepare for allocation to the science community."

"Despite the hard landing, Genesis was able to deliver. However, we await the final report of the Mishap Board to understand what caused the malfunction, and to hear the Board's recommendations for how we can avoid such a problem in the future," he added. (Geez, ya THINK? Sounds like an obviously good idea).

Well, I'm more optimistic especially at the news that there's apparently enough samples -- and in good shape -- to start sharing them amongst various science agencies.

MIB should wrap up its investigation into the mishap by the end of November.

--Cindy

::edit:: From similar article posted at spaceflightnow.com:

"The parachute system failed to deploy...The MIB, analyzing the Genesis capsule at a facility near Denver, said the likely cause was a design error that involves the orientation of gravity- switch devices. The switches sense the braking caused by the high-speed entry into the atmosphere, and then initiate the timing sequence leading to deployment of the craft's drogue parachute and parafoil.

'This single cause has not yet been fully confirmed, nor has it been determined whether it is the only problem within the Genesis system,' said Dr. Michael G. Ryschkewitsch, the MIB chair. 'The Board is working to confirm this proximate cause...'"

SpaceNut · 2004-10-15 08:05:48

It appears that a gravity sensor is at fault as indicated by NYTimes article(registration).

Los angeles article indicates a switch installed backwards.

Genesis Crash Blamed on Installation Error
http://www.latimes.com/news....science

NY Times

The crash of a capsule returning fragile samples of solar particles last month was likely to have been caused by a design flaw that led to the sensors that were to deploy the capsule's parachutes being pointed in the wrong direction, a NASA investigatory panel reported yesterday.
The Genesis spacecraft had spent 850 days in deep space collecting particles of solar wind, charged atoms ejected at high speeds by the sun that may tell scientists about conditions that existed in the infant solar system nearly 5 billion years ago.
Mission designers had been so worried about possible damage and contamination to the collection plates that plans not only called for parachutes to slow the capsule's landing but a helicopter flown by a stunt pilot was to catch it in midair and then gently lower it to the ground.
Instead, when Genesis returned to earth on Sept. 8, neither an initial small parachute nor the main parachute deployed, and the capsule slammed into ground at nearly 200 miles per hour.
The investigatory panel pointed to sensors that were designed to sense the tremendous forces of deceleration as friction during re-entry slowed the capsule down from 25,000 miles per hour. The sensors were then to send a signal to a computer that would deploy the parachutes.
A flaw in the design of the capsule, however, placed the sensors in an orientation that did not allow them to fully measure the deceleration, the panel said. Consequently, the sensors never sent the signal to the computer, and the computer never sent the command to deploy the parachutes.
"This single cause has not yet been fully confirmed, nor has it been determined whether it is the only problem within the Genesis system," Dr. Michael G. Ryschkewitsch, chairman of the investigation panel, said in a statement released by NASA yesterday evening. "The board is working to confirm this proximate cause, to determine why this error happened, why it was not caught by the test program and an extensive set of in-process and after-the-fact reviews of the Genesis system."
The crash broke open the capsule and smashed many of the collection plates, but mission scientists say they are nonetheless optimistic that they can still salvage much of the science.

Rxke · 2004-10-15 17:26:01

Oh boy....

That is so baaad...

I bet this will haunt them for years in public opinion, it's as dumb sounding as the meters/feet mixup (Mars Polar Lander crash)...

To err is human, of course... But sometimes you just have to wonder how they do quality control "up there?"

Shaun Barrett · 2004-10-15 18:58:08

Yeah, I think they said Lockheed Martin made the 'upside-down' switch.
Hard to believe such stupidity can exist in a technology firm of their calibre. (Sigh .. )

Palomar · 2004-10-24 11:16:36

http://genesismission.jpl.nasa.gov/miss … .html]Link labeled "Latest Images" (I've clicked on most of these already...I don't see the captions they're referring to).

-*-

http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/genes … .html]Link labeled "Latest images from NASA" Small captions with pics.

Still makes me heartsick.

--Cindy :bars:

SpaceNut · 2004-11-02 12:45:42

Well lockheed has posted the genisis capsule shell photos on there web site as seen by staff in clean roon garb.
http://www.lockheedmartin.com/wms....&sc=400

Palomar · 2004-11-03 20:38:33

Well lockheed has posted the genisis capsule shell photos on there web site as seen by staff in clean roon garb.
http://www.lockheedmartin.com/wms/findP … i=0&sc=400
http://www.lockheedmartin.com/wms....&sc=400

*Thanks for posting that, SpaceNut. My heart still sinks to look at some of the photos which have been posted to the 'net. Guess I should bookmark L-M's web site. The article seems a bit dated, though; speaks of determining the cause of the 'chute failure in the future tense.

Like that quote by Robert Heinlein towards the bottom of the page.

-sigh-

--Cindy

Palomar · 2004-11-05 07:52:13

*Electronic field trip:

NASA's Genesis Cleanroom Electronic Field Trip
Scientists are usually concerned about protecting the Earth from the sun. But what happens when the sun needs to be protected from Earth? NASA’s Johnson Space Center in Houston, Texas has built the answer in the form of a class 10 cleanroom, in which Genesis scientists analyze solar samples. The cleanroom will ensure that neither contamination nor debris will mask the solar wind samples, throwing off the results. The mission of Astromaterials Curation at the Johnson Space Center is to protect, preserve and distribute for study samples from the moon and interplanetary space in support of solar system exploration.
You can travel into the cleanroom via an electronic field trip. Virtually suit up and learn "how clean is clean?"

http://genesismission.jpl.nasa.gov/prod … .html]More stuff...

--Cindy

Palomar · 2004-11-09 15:00:33

http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap990218.html]Aerogel

*Ah, here's a pic of the aerogel "honeycomb" being used on STARDUST. I'd been wanting to see it for quite some time...

--Cindy

P.S.: And hopefully it'll arrive intact, unlike another mission I could name :rant: :;):

SpaceNut · 2004-11-09 15:35:22

Nasa Stardust home page

The what is Aerogel page

Well from the web pages it will land in the same manner by parachute in UTAH, it was launched on a Delta 2 and is still 432 days to returning.

The Stardust mission spacecraft is derived from the SpaceProbe deep space bus developed by Lockheed Martin Astronautics. Virtually all of the technologies used to create the spacecraft were either already operating in space or were flight qualified for spaceflight before Stardust took advantage of them.

I would have said the same about the other Lockheed product but wel know how that ended up.

Palomar · 2004-11-26 08:57:05

http://genesismission.jpl.nasa.gov/miss … .html]What does this article indirectly say?

*Maybe I'm reading too much into this situation, but the latest "update" concerns not the samples but the spacecraft bus traveling back to L1. And that NASA is considering extending its "mission"? ??? As we all know, it no longer carries the Sample Return Capsule (smashed to smithereens thanks to the parachute goof).

NASA is currently considering an extended mission, which would keep the spacecraft in the Earth-Moon system for the next several years. The Genesis spacecraft completed a trajectory correction maneuver (TCM) on Nov. 6, as the spacecraft made its closest approach by our planet since the release of the sample return capsule. This TCM ensured that the bus could escape from the Earth and Moon system if an extended mission is not approved.

They mention the solar wind monitors are operational, and also including "all of the spacecraft systems" -- except the SWMs are turned off. Frankly I think they'll let it go. Why not use those SWMs, though? Turn 'em back on.

--Cindy

Palomar · 2004-12-02 06:37:12

*Oh good grief. Saw a finger-wagging article on Genesis last evening in a magazine akin to "Fortean Times." Rather funny: No mention whatsoever as to the purpose of the mission...no history of the mission, nor what science is hoped to be gleaned from the samples. Just a reference to how Genesis seemed like a "wobbling flying saucer" as it streaked toward the Earth and crashed in the desert.

Is there a lesson for NASA to learn here? The article begged (as if NASA "deserved" this fate for Genesis because of its official refusal to address fringe issues). :laugh:

Yeah, NASA's got some lessons to learn. But not from the fringe goofballs.

Ay dios.

--Cindy

Palomar · 2005-01-28 06:21:34

*Finally -- another update (it's been a while).

http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewpr.html?pid=16014]NASA sends 1st Genesis early-science sample to researchers

Sent to researchers at Washington University in St. Louis, who confirmed the sample contains solar ions.

The Washington University study is the first of two scientific objectives that make up the initial research program planned for Genesis. The other early science objective involves studies of nitrogen from samples.

2nd sample preparation is underway in the Genesis clean-room; that sample will be sent to the U of Minnesota.

Good luck.

--Cindy

SpaceNut · 2005-01-28 08:21:23

Yup, just started to read the Nasa news release: NASA Sends First Genesis Early-Science Sample to Researchers

As you mentioned the:

Scientists at NASA's Johnson Space Center (JSC) in Houston recently shipped a piece of the Genesis polished aluminum collector to researchers at Washington University in St. Louis. The shipment marked the first distribution of a Genesis scientific sample from JSC since the science canister arrived on Oct. 4, 2004. Preliminary examination of the sample by researchers has confirmed it contains solar ions, traces of the solar wind.
Washington University researchers Charles Hohenberg and Alex Meshik will study the sample to try to determine detailed information about the gases that make up the sun.

Granted they will have a good look at some of the elements that the sun spues out but the Isotopes and radioactive elements with short half life will be gone.

Palomar · 2005-01-28 08:47:19

Granted they will have a good look at some of the elements that the sun spues out but the Isotopes and radioactive elements with short half life will be gone.

*Hi SpaceNut:

Actually I have little anticipation for this mission. -If- any actual solar science is forthcoming, I'll be following it in the current "Heliopolis" thread (which was my original intention before the damned crash).

The fact that this is the most recent news release in months (the most recent news release was discussed in my Nov. 26 post -- and didn't concern the actual samples themselves) sure doesn't bode well.

Hopefully I'll be proven wrong.

--Cindy

Palomar · 2005-02-17 13:18:38

http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap960125.html]Catching falling stardust

*Brought that old tune to mind: Catch a falling star and put it in your pocket, save it for a rainy day. I found this item while searching at random on Astropix.

I'm posting here because it mentions the Stardust mission, similarity of purpose, etc. This is from 1996. Either I can't recall having seen this image before or I've not. Was part of the European Recoverable Carrier spacecraft (EURECA). I searched Google, found a couple of links (mission description, techy stuff).

Anyway, thought this was a unique image and info.

--Cindy

SpaceNut · 2005-03-16 09:05:49

Resurrecting Genesis

Despite this adversity, the Genesis team announced yesterday at the Lunar and Planetary Science Conference in Houston, Texas, that it can still fulfill most or perhaps all of the mission's prime objectives.

sort of what we wanted on the left but what we got on the right after the crash.

Palomar · 2005-03-18 20:58:52

http://skyandtelescope.com/news/article_1480_1.asp] Resurrecting Genesis

*SpaceNut, you must get the Sky & Telescope e-mail before I do. Hmmmm.

Same article (I was going to post it, but see you have already) and I want to highlight some salient points. Only highlight because it's the end of a long day and my back is killing me.

This article is a ray of sunshine...no pun intended. I'm feeling more hopeful about the situation than ever before.

The best place to have a failure is on Earth," says Genesis principal investigator Donald Burnett (Caltech). "You can pick up the pieces. You can use every bit of modern technology to solve your problem."

So far they've logged 9,338 pieces.

Most important, Genesis successfully collected three varieties of solar-wind particles: slow-moving particles, fast-moving particles, and coronal-mass-ejection particles.

I am especially interested in the CME particles! Will post about those results of studies in "Heliopolis," when they're available.

Of the 271 whole and 30 half hexagons, there are some 199 fragments still attached to the plates. And a scant few of the hexagons actually survived the crash landing.

Contamination an issue still, though. :-\

They're not giving up on anything. Good.

--Cindy

Palomar · 2005-04-20 13:02:49

http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewpr.htm … 6698]Great news!

*Four of the "key" science collectors are in excellent shape. They're calling this "a real miracle."

Scientists at NASA's Johnson Space Center (JSC) in Houston removed the four solar-wind collectors from an instrument called the concentrator. The concentrator targets collected solar-oxygen ions during the Genesis mission. Scientists will analyze them to measure solar-oxygen isotopic composition, the highest-priority measurement objective for Genesis. The data may hold clues to increase understanding about how the solar system formed.

Terrific. :up:

--Cindy

SpaceNut · 2005-04-21 06:00:06

No to the Sky & Telescope e-mail, I actually just read from many sites.
This is good news about the plates conditions. This will possibly answer many questions about the solar wind as well.

SpaceNut · 2005-09-14 10:53:55

It has been a long time since the last info on the samples and I am still not sure what we will get from those that were so contaminated.
And for the Stardust spacecraft mission even less from its encounter with wild 2 comet. But this news stuck me as very odd. Pop Time Capsule Returns to Earth

Somewhere out past Mars, Adolf Hitler floats through space -- along with Elvis, Darth Vader and an advertisement for a porn website.
This unlikely cast of characters is hitching a ride on the U.S. space probe Stardust, which contains a list of more than 1 million names submitted by the public through a NASA website.
The names, etched on two silicon chips so small they can be read only with a microscope, were published for the first time only last week.

SpaceNut · 2005-09-22 19:53:52

Stardust is about to do a Mars flyby image path Date and time is tomorrow.

SpaceNut · 2005-10-31 07:52:13

Took a while but I found this thread again.

Picking up the pieces of Genesis mission

There is still much to learn from one of NASA's recent robotic missions, and the scientist who has been picking up the pieces will deliver three public talks about it starting next week.
In his talks in the next two weeks, part of the Frontiers in Science series to tell the community about scientific research at LANL, Wiens will discuss the purposes of Genesis' two-year, million-mile voyage and the significance of understanding the isotopic composition of the sun.
Planetary scientists have not been able to explain some peculiarities that have been observed going back about 35 years ago, said Wiens.
Pieces of the solar system - analyzed from asteroids, meteorites and comets, have many of the same compositional characteristics as the Earth. Their isotopic ratios are similar, except for their ratio of isotopes of oxygen.

But we still have another that we are waiting on:

Another NASA space capsule is scheduled to return to earth on Jan. 15. The Stardust capsule passed through the tail of the comet Wild 2 is bringing home samples of comet dust. Not quite as delicate as the solar collection, these samples are expected to make a landing in Utah.

Lets hope for a better landing this time around...

SpaceNut · 2005-11-30 09:17:06

Nice article on StarDust, The Fiery Return of NASA's Space Dust Cargo

Has Genesis to StarDust return flight path map and more....

Palomar · 2005-12-23 08:26:06

Stardust homeward bound

*It'll release its sample container on January 15, 2006. Entry velocity of the SC will be 28,860 mph; the fastest human-made moving ANYTHING on record. Its speed will beat out that of Apollo 10. Awesome.

--Cindy

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#51 2004-10-15 07:07:30

Re: Genesis, Stardust, Etc.: Snag & Bag

#52 2004-10-15 08:05:48

Re: Genesis, Stardust, Etc.: Snag & Bag

#53 2004-10-15 17:26:01

Re: Genesis, Stardust, Etc.: Snag & Bag

#54 2004-10-15 18:58:08

Re: Genesis, Stardust, Etc.: Snag & Bag

#55 2004-10-24 11:16:36

Re: Genesis, Stardust, Etc.: Snag & Bag

#56 2004-11-02 12:45:42

Re: Genesis, Stardust, Etc.: Snag & Bag

#57 2004-11-03 20:38:33

Re: Genesis, Stardust, Etc.: Snag & Bag

#58 2004-11-05 07:52:13

Re: Genesis, Stardust, Etc.: Snag & Bag

#59 2004-11-09 15:00:33

Re: Genesis, Stardust, Etc.: Snag & Bag

#60 2004-11-09 15:35:22

Re: Genesis, Stardust, Etc.: Snag & Bag

#61 2004-11-26 08:57:05

Re: Genesis, Stardust, Etc.: Snag & Bag

#62 2004-12-02 06:37:12

Re: Genesis, Stardust, Etc.: Snag & Bag

#63 2005-01-28 06:21:34

Re: Genesis, Stardust, Etc.: Snag & Bag

#64 2005-01-28 08:21:23

Re: Genesis, Stardust, Etc.: Snag & Bag

#65 2005-01-28 08:47:19

Re: Genesis, Stardust, Etc.: Snag & Bag

#66 2005-02-17 13:18:38

Re: Genesis, Stardust, Etc.: Snag & Bag

#67 2005-03-16 09:05:49

Re: Genesis, Stardust, Etc.: Snag & Bag

#68 2005-03-18 20:58:52

Re: Genesis, Stardust, Etc.: Snag & Bag

#69 2005-04-20 13:02:49

Re: Genesis, Stardust, Etc.: Snag & Bag

#70 2005-04-21 06:00:06

Re: Genesis, Stardust, Etc.: Snag & Bag

#71 2005-09-14 10:53:55

Re: Genesis, Stardust, Etc.: Snag & Bag

#72 2005-09-22 19:53:52

Re: Genesis, Stardust, Etc.: Snag & Bag

#73 2005-10-31 07:52:13

Re: Genesis, Stardust, Etc.: Snag & Bag

#74 2005-11-30 09:17:06

Re: Genesis, Stardust, Etc.: Snag & Bag

#75 2005-12-23 08:26:06

Re: Genesis, Stardust, Etc.: Snag & Bag

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