The Electric Universe - Death to the Big Bang Theory!

Martian Republic · 2005-04-02 18:21:41

The electric Universe and the Death of the Big Bang Theory. Some new subject to discuss and throw out different opinions.

http://www.rense.com/general63/elel.htm … 3/elel.htm

http://www.rense.com/general63/bbang.ht … /bbang.htm

Larry,

dicktice · 2005-04-02 19:18:46

Fred Hoyle would have been pleased, and have an explaination in a minute for us to mull over.

Mad Grad Student · 2005-04-03 23:03:19

Well, the Big Bang theory ain't quite dead yet. Perhaps it needs a tune-up, but very rarely are scientific theories pervasive enough to be household names completely dumped in favor of new ones. When new observations are made, scientists interpret them and incorporate them into existing models. If we tore down the old models of the universe every time someone found a new galaxy cluster we'd be getting nowhere fast.

For example, when William Herschel discovered Uranus, the Copernican model of the universe was not thrown away, it just had a seventh planet thrown in. When Hubble first discovered redshift in the Andromeda Galaxy a bigger, badder universe was built around our galxay, with no changes being made locally. When the current flaws in the Big Bang theory are ironed out, the data that fix it will be tacked on to our current ideas. For example, if brane theory proves to be correct the Big Bang need not be eliminated, but it becomes just one event on a vast 4-dimensional brane. Wicked stuff, string theory.

The ESO's observation is interesting but ultimately does not have much bearing in the case of the Big Bang. All it means is that either A) we miscalculated how redshift affects distant objects, or B) complex structures can form faster than we used to think. Did you notice that they never offered an explination of their own for why such a large redshift occurs? Usually when scientists discredit other scientists' theories they offer hypotheses of their own for what happens out there.

We know that the cluster was not ejected from NGC 7014 because that's ridiculous. Such a large redshift requires insane relative speeds between the object and observer, on the order of high fractions of the speed of light. Those speeds could not possibly be reached outside of divine intervention or an expansionary universe, and Occam's Razor seems to dictate that an expansionary universe is a more satisfying answer. Science is a risky business; you must take everything you hear about it with a grain of salt. I don't think these guys pass the bar.

srmeaney · 2005-04-04 02:20:46

Here is a possibility. The Universe already existed, A string broke the energy tore the dimensions in half and laid down some new dimensions to fill the space. That means that one day, a string will break in Our universe tearing all of space and time down the middle and unfold new dimensions that will be "hot and teaming with the energy of exotic particles". I thought this theory up last year when some documentary claimed Strings entangle alternative space time.

dicktice · 2005-04-04 09:14:31

I wish people wouldn't keep calling every damn idea they have, a "theory."

Palomar · 2005-04-04 10:40:26

I wish people wouldn't keep calling every damn idea they have, a "theory."

:laugh:

*That's a good point, Pops.

Yeah, the word is a bit...overused/abused.

Electric Universe; I like that, it sounds groovy.

MGS: Well, the Big Bang theory ain't quite dead yet. Perhaps it needs a tune-up, but very rarely are scientific theories pervasive enough to be household names completely dumped in favor of new ones. When new observations are made, scientists interpret them and incorporate them into existing models. If we tore down the old models of the universe every time someone found a new galaxy cluster we'd be getting nowhere fast.

This issue reminds me of an article I read last week (or the week prior to it) regarding gravitational (lens) distortion and how it may never enable astronomers/cosmologists a true glimpse into the earliest past.

--Cindy

Mad Grad Student · 2005-04-06 00:13:32

Here is a possibility. The Universe already existed, A string broke the energy tore the dimensions in half and laid down some new dimensions to fill the space. That means that one day, a string will break in Our universe tearing all of space and time down the middle and unfold new dimensions that will be "hot and teaming with the energy of exotic particles". I thought this theory up last year when some documentary claimed Strings entangle alternative space time.

Well, then I guess we're all suckers.

But then again, no matter what, it has to end somehow, doesn't it? Fortunately we probably won't have to deal with the end of the universe before the ends of our respective lives, so it's that second point you should probably worry about. But is fun to wonder, sometimes...

dicktice · 2005-04-06 15:22:45

Define "end." On Earth, the horizon is as far as you can see. As far as we can see e.g. with the Hubble may be the same sort of thing.

Mad Grad Student · 2005-04-09 21:43:56

I wish people wouldn't keep calling every damn idea they have, a "theory."

Heh heh, that's certainly true. Perhaps a bigger problem is when people call legitimate scientific principles "just" theories, as the ID/creationism crowd is so fond of doing. It's as though because an idea is a theory it's merely zero-evidence speculation to these guys. If you look at it from that perspective, hey, gravity is "just" a theory. Why some people can't simply face facts and try to integrate evolution via natural selection into their personal beliefs is beyond me. But I digress.

"End" as in fin. The end. That's it, show's over. You don't have to go home but you can't stay here. Granted, I suppose the universe could be cyclical, but the fact of the matter is that at some point, whether it's in 20 minutes or waaaaaay out there, every shred of progress and mark that humanity has made on this resplendant universe willl be erased. We just all have to face up to our mortality eventually. For people like us in the year 2005 the only finility we have to deal with is our own lives, but eventually the species to will be gone. Or maybe not, but it probably will happen. It's a thought some people might consider depressing, but as far as I'm concerned it's a completely moot point an I'd still live my life just the same even if I knew that the universe would draw to a close one second after my death. Sure, the universe will probably one day end, but who cares about the universe, we live on Earth! :laugh:

NOTE: Of course, you should care about just about everything. Just don't let it get you down. Realistic optimisim r0x0rz. :;):

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