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srmeaney not to make you feel bad but hauling coal from earth to mars in a large scale is silly. By the time we get to the point were some one would want to terraform mars most of earths coal suppy would be used up. Also Mars all ready has the next best thing to coal CO2. Frozen in the soil and poles about 300 mb to 1000 mb we dont for sure yet. But mars all ready has most of the thing there that are needed to terraform it. The one thing we dont know about is Nitrogen, there could be large amounts in the form of nitrates or almost none. The earth its self has 2 bars worth of Nitrogen bured in nitrate rocks. Thats why I think importing NH3 from the outer planets moons is needed. First NH3 is a good greenhouse gas that will break down into N2 an buffer gas which mars needs.
The best part of my idea is that it will lead to the devepolment of both Mars and the outer planets. Also custom made micro comets are easyer to handle than large comets. You get what you want in them NH3, large native comets have all sorts of un wanted stuff like arsenic, and radioactive stuff too. You could end up polluting mars air with radiation and deadly radioactive elements.
No one else like my idea, strange because it makes sense to me. :;):
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I can appreciate the idea of making icecubes and shipping them to Mars. The problem is that it would mean a couple of self sustaining colonies housed in space stations in the asteroid belt. Their job would be to collect ice and catapult it in system on a regular basis.
I can even see the shape of the station and the asteroid it would be anchored to, and the fact that the station could be a generic design used to transfer a thousand people to Mars in one go or sustain a colony of a hundred in the Asteroid belt. It would even be powered by nuclear reactor motors designed to superheat the hydrogen it would be collecting as a propellant.
It would be like a thousand Shuttle fuel tanks linked to a toroidal of node modules so it looks like a large hollow cylinder. The ice would be collected in that cylinder and the vessel would either fire that cylinder towards Mars Orbit or return to Mars orbit to deliver the ice slug to one of the moons which would catapult the thing into the Atmosphere. It could even bring it's asteroid for planetary bombardment or mining.
That would put a thousand initial stage colonists on Mars and another thousand on ten such stations in the belt. Another two would be used to taxi in new colonists and equipment. And it would all be done under a single space commonwealth and the governments of earth would have none of the financial responsibility yet their economies would benifit from the construction, launch and personell training contracts.
We could bring the Olympus Mons site up to a million population within a hundred years.
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Sort of what I had in mine but instead of a commonwealth it would be a fasict state. Any ways the colony would be located on the moons surfaces. For example Satern moon Mimas is small and has low gravity, stripmines would gather ices. A process plant would prepare the micro comets, when ready rail lanchs that run the lenght of the moon 200 miles would speedy up the object for escape velocity from Satern. It like magtrain tracts but the end part lanchs the comets straight off the moon. In my plan since the micro comets are so small they just hit mars straight on and burn up causing no damage. This also avoides airobraking comets into orbit because once their in orbit around mars they turn into comets with their much needed vapor evaporing away into space.
Also my colonys are on the outer planets moons not the asteroid belt because most of them are rocky or metalic the ice one are out by the gas gaints. The colonys could be on the surface of the larger ones smaller moons would need orbiting ring colony so that the people have enough gravity.
Also terraforming of jupitor two large outer moons is possible. N2 could be obtained locally and there is plenty of oxygen in the water ices.
When you want to make a colony the best source of gases and ices is the outer solar system, the best source of metals is the asteroid belt. Colonys in the main belt mine metal and eport to the outer solar system and import ices and gasa form the outer planets. I think that would be a good model for a economy in outerspace.
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When you want to make a colony the best source of gases and ices is the outer solar system, the best source of metals is the asteroid belt. Colonys in the main belt mine metal and eport to the outer solar system and import ices and gasa form the outer planets. I think that would be a good model for a economy in outerspace.
There are a good batch of short period comets with approximately 5 AU aphelions. It's my opinion these were dislodged from Jupiter's Trojan points.
At this point we know very little about the make up of Trojan, Main Belt, or even Near Earth asteroids.
It's way too early to write off the main belt or Trojans as volatile sources.
Not only are gas giant icey moons far from Mars in Sol's gravity well, but they're on the slopes of gas giant gravity wells as well as being at the bottom of respectable moon gravity wells. The delta vee requirements are a lot higher.
Some have called 4 A.U. "The Edge of Sunlight". Past this point solar energy is less usable as an energy source. The main belt is within this edge. The Trojans not far past. Very low mass parabolic mirrors made of aluminum coated mylar can float near an asteroid to better exploit solar energy.
Terraforming Mars could be a large part of the Main Belt economy. The colonies might set MADMEN on neighboring bodies to send them towards Mars space.
http://www.space.com/businesstechnology … ...19.html
Asteroids, especially Near Earth asteroids and Main Belt are extremely valuable resources if we're to colonize the solar system. We shouldn't let planetary chauvinism blind us to their potential.
Hop's [url=http://www.amazon.com/Conic-Sections-Celestial-Mechanics-Coloring/dp/1936037106]Orbital Mechanics Coloring Book[/url] - For kids from kindergarten to college.
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"Coal would be used in conjunction with increased atmospheric oxygen to trigger a planet wide greenhouse response.
It would also be used to provide carbon for the manufacture of steel from smelting iron."
I'm sorry, but this still makes no sense. You're talking about flying huge quantities of carbon and extracting huge quantities of oxygen to burn it. I suppose you'd break down iron oxide to release the oxygen? Of course, the iron will rust again, so you have that problem. Mars probably has all the CO2 that is needed anyway. You certainly don't need to important carbon to make steel! Mars is swimming in enough CO2 for that!
-- RobS
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Carbon is critical for manufacture of steel along with the third in the steel triangle, Silicon. Unless we extract carbon from CO2 ice, import it we shall.
As far as smelting steal and using coal, we could use another process other than blast furnaces for making steal. We could use a new process called Plasma Steal to make steal and other metals. But, if we need carbon as an element of steal, we could get that carbon from an asteroid. There are several different types of asteroids in space. About 15% of the asteroids are of various metal types. Another groups of asteroids are of rock type that would have Silicone in it. A third type have are carbon asteroids. So if we are going to import carbon whether in coal or just carbon, we would do it from the asteroid belt and not the earth. And if there were no sufficient carbon in space, then what your talking about doing is total non-sense.
Why do you constantly say stupid and then refuse to yield to logic.
Larry,
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Steel requires Iron, Silicon and Carbon. When we have the resources to make steel, we will be able to expand underground (mine) and have the resources needed to line the tunnels with something that will prevent our being crushed due to subsidence. This will allow us to expand the basic colonies beyond the hundred living in very expensive tin cans on the surface. The sooner Mars achieves self sufficiency, the better.
I'm talking about real resources at the landing site. There will be none of this hauling stuff five thousand miles across the planet to process just to haul it back. The Resource will determine the habitat site. Not the other way around.
As to Asteroid mining: someone will have to go out and collect them and bring them in. In a continuous process. That means people living "out there" and not in earth orbit. Mars will be the closest they ever get to earth again. Mars will be their life support mechanism.
In fact it may come down to Mass drivers on Phobos and diemos firing food and equipment out to the belt for retrieval and asteroid mining colonies firing the minerals they find back in to Mars orbit.
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