Mars Exploration Rovers (MER)

MacAndrew · 2005-03-14 20:22:24

I think that's very fair comment .. when do we leave?!
Welcome to New Mars, Mac!

Shaun, thanks a lot, really a lot for your kind welcome. Leaving for Mars... how would I love it... only I would maybe betray our favourite planet for ... Titan. Those tales of methane rivers/lakes/seas, infrared methane rainbows, water-ice volcanoes, Icarus-like flying in the dense, low-gravity atmosphere (not to speak of the California shoreline photographed by Huygens) have totally conquered me. Not that I would despise a Christmas holiday spent at Mars' North Pole...

MacAndrew

dicktice · 2005-03-14 22:13:37

Canadian Broadcasting Corporation, Radio One, "As I Happens" news program: I transcribed this from the live interview just now, this evening:

—Dr Ray Arvidson, deputy principle investigator in the Mars exploration rover mission. We reached him at his office at Washington University in St Louis. Hello Dr Arvidson.
—Nice to talk to you.
—The same to you, sir. I’m wondering if you’ve got some answers to how do you suppose Spirit’s solar panels were cleared?
—Well, we expected that the panels both on Spirit and Opportunity should get dusty as a function of time because there’s a lot of dust in the Mars atmosphere. More dust coming down in the crater, where spirit is, as opposed to Opportunity, so we’ve been seeing a very gentle degradation of its solar panel based upon the amount of dust accumulating. You know, the winds are pretty swift on Mars. The atmosphere is very, very thin. The air pressure on Earth is about 1000 millibars. On Mars, the pressure is 5 to 10, but the winds can get high enough to pick up dust and move it around, which is why the atmosphere is dusty. So we think what’s happening is that there’s wind gust events on that dust that’s been accumulating on the panel that took some of it off. In fact, we took pictures after this event and some of the dust has been moved around on the solar panel, based on looking at the kind of before and after images.
—I was wondering for what the Spirit rover’s pictures are telling you about dust devils and how they are created.
—Well, we’ve known for a long time that there’ve been dust devils on Mars. We actually see them from images taken from orbit, and what you see, somewhat ironically, are shadows of the dust devils, as opposed to the dust devils themselves. But on the surface, what we can see on the horizon is the actual circular dust patterns, and they are also casting shadows. What we are seeing is that they ‘re becoming greater and what’s happening is that we’re moving from the winter to the spring, and eventually into the summer, so because the latitude is -15 degrees South, it’s becoming pretty dusty in terms of dust in the atmosphere. What we think is happening is that these dust devils have very high velocities because the wind is spinning around and that tends to compensate for the fact that the atmosphere is very thin, and what happens is you pick up the dust preferentially within the vortices, or dust devils. So what we ought to do over the next two months is look at their abundance and their sizes, and get a feeling for how much dust is actually lifted from the surface and where it goes.
—I’m guessing that an awful lot of what you’re learning is new science.
—It’s a fascinating mission. We’re way out of warrantee. We were warranted for 90 days when we started, back in January of ’04 and on—let’s see—on Spirit it is today—ah—the 425th day after landing, and for Opportunity it’s the 405th day, so we’re way out of warrantee and discovering new things every day.
—I guess I never expected there were warrantees.
—A figure of speech—but the point of the mission is the design lifetime was for 90 days, and for example to get the context, the mission success criteria for both rovers together was travel 600 metres, and Spirit alone has traversed over 4 kilometres.
—Well, that’s new science in itself, but I’m wondering if you can tell me a little bit about some of the other aspects of Mars that the two rovers have revealed.
—Well, they’re getting data beyond my wildest hopes. We are really focussed on traversing and understanding the geological history of Gusev crater, for Spirit, and Meridiani Planum for Opportunity. And we’re focussing-in on understanding the role of water on and beneath the surface in ancient times. So we totally lucked out in terms of Opportunity. We landed in about a 20 metre diameter crater called Eagle Crater, and right in the middle, where we left the lander there was an outcrop of rock and the walls of the crater. The rock was cross-threaded, it’s granular and it’s made out of largely evaporated salts. So it formed in an ancient lake, or large pond or even an ancient sea. And in addition it offers significant evidence that after it formed in the sea, was moved around by water currents, re-cemented and then buried and ground water moved through it and changed the chemistry and minerology.
—What does that mean?
—It means that Mars was warm and wet, and it supported open bodies of water, unlike today, where it’s so incredibly cold that liquid water can’t be sustained on the surface or in the atmosphere. So the climate was dramatically different and water was prevalent both on and beneath the surface, and that raises the possibility of life getting started where it evolved significantly. And on the other side of the planet, Spirit in Gusev crater, we spent the first 150 Mars days, or sols, traversing across the relatively un-volcanic plains, and then to an older island of rock, called the Columbia Hills, and the rocks there are completely different. Those are rocks that again are granular rocks, they’re particulate rocks, but the chemistry and minerology suggest that we’ve looked at for these rocks suggest that they sat in salty ground water for some period of time. And again, ground water can’t exist that close to the surface today on Mars, so it implies that when these ancient rocks formed Mars was fairly warm, fairly wet.
—What do you think about where the water went? Why did it vanish?
—It’s still there, but it’s all ice. Ice at the polar caps, and it’s ice trapped at the higher latitudes under soil, and it’s ice water bound in hydrated minerals today, and it’s probably ice deeply beneath the equatorial regions. So something happened to that ancient climate to significantly change it. And I think future mission will address what happened to Mars that didn’t sustain the early warm and wet conditions, and when it was warm and wet, did life get started and evolve. Spirit and Opportunity, they’re continuing to investigate the warm and wet conditions, but they’ll never find life, because they’re not designed to do so.
—How much life is left in the rovers, doctor?
—Well (laughs) it’s a good question, but I wouldn’t be surprised if we're talking next year, but again, the design lifetime, the primary mission, was 90 days on Mars, or sols, and we’re in the 400 sols with both rovers, so we’re on borrowed time. But these are good, well-made vehicles, and there’s really no sign that they’re gonna wear out soon.
—Thanks for telling me about it.
—Sure.
—All the best.
—Thankyou.
—That was Dr Ray Arvidson. We reached him in St Louis.

Palomar · 2005-03-15 15:18:16

*This just in:

http://www.spaceflightnow.com/mars/mera … tml]Spirit caught *TWO* dust devils in action :band:

I checked the other thread before posting here, and the most recent posts in -this- thread.

Two, not one. Yay!

--Cindy

atomoid · 2005-03-15 18:08:27

...http://www.spaceflightnow.com/mars/mera/050314dustdevil.html]Spirit caught *TWO* dust devils in action :band:
...
Two, not one. Yay!
--Cindy

yeah, it could only be two dust devils around the same time, i was bewildered by the fact that the dust devil showed up at
http://mars.lyle.org/imagery/2N16374580 … l]13:40:00, then again at http://mars.lyle.org/imagery/2N16374588 … l]13:41:23, but not http://mars.lyle.org/imagery/2N16374585 … ml]between those times (13:40:49) nor http://mars.lyle.org/imagery/2N16374597 … html]after them (13:42:46).
If it were the same dust devil it would have to be moving at quite a clip to be in these two photos, but somehow alter its course ot go invisible to not be captured in the inter or after frames.

By comparing the separate images from the rover's different cameras, team members estimate that the dust devils moved about 500 meters (1,640 feet) in the 155 seconds between the navigation camera and hazard-avoidance camera frames; that equates to about 3 meters per second (7 miles per hour). The dust devils appear to be about 1,100 meters (almost three-quarters of a mile) from the rover.

So, two devils are in the details! what luck! not to mention Spirit actually getting run over!
now, was it one of these dust devils pictured that meandered its way up the columbia hills to say hello to Spirit? it looks like theres plenty of dust devils to go around, hopefully well see a monster like the ones seen from orbit soon.

Palomar · 2005-03-16 05:19:52

http://www.space.com/news/050315_rover_ … html]*Oppy having trouble with thermal emission spectrometer

They're getting data from it while troubleshooting the problem.

The problem might be related to a malfunctioning optical switch that tells a mirror in the instrument when to begin moving. Or the mirror might not be properly moving at a constant velocity.

If it's an optical switch, they can opt for a "redundant one" in the instrument.

Otherwise Oppy is okay, as is Spirit, and continues working observing Vostok (crater).

Oppy's current trouble began on March 3.

--Cindy

SpaceNut · 2005-03-16 06:55:53

At some point I fear unless there continues to be good science being learned by the rovers, that eventually Nasa is going to have to pull the plug on them. What an unfortunate day that will be.

hubricide · 2005-03-16 07:39:46

As long as any single instrument still works, I bet NASA will still fund the rover(s).. The worst would be if all the cameras fail, since the rover would no longer be able to rove, but were the cameras to fail, it also means that there would be far less data to process and far less to command the rover to do. If the rovers are somehow unable to move but the cameras still work, it's a simple matter of downloading whatever images they take daily and putting them somewhere. I have to think that planning where to direct the rover to go takes the most amount of manpower.

In short, I wager that NASA won't stop monitoring the rovers until they are clearly dead. They're just returning too much data on a regular basis, and when instruments do inevitably fail, NASA will simply need fewer people on the mission.

Palomar · 2005-03-16 07:47:47

*I firmly believe, in the words of Byron (no longer with us apparently), "They're going to drive those things until they drop, LOL."

They'll be allowed to continue operating and being funded until they reach their natural expiration points, I'm sure.

--Cindy

REB · 2005-03-16 09:19:43

http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/ … pportunity sees different sized blueberries at Vostok

http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/ … .HTML]Last picture where we can see the heatshield? Bye!

Shaun Barrett · 2005-03-16 18:32:20

I can still see that rippled sand as the shallows of a salty sea, with sunlight shimmering on it.
What was that?!
.. I thought I saw something silvery .. moving through the water!
[Sorry - just imaginitis. :;): ]

Michael Bloxham · 2005-03-16 20:52:41

They'll be allowed to continue operating and being funded until they reach their natural expiration points, I'm sure.

Never underestimate the stupidity (bureaucracy?) of NASA. They did it to Hubble, they can do it to the MER's.

hubricide · 2005-03-16 22:57:47

The Hubble and the rovers are completely different missions.

Stephen · 2005-03-16 23:49:21

The Hubble and the rovers are completely different missions.

Similar idea, though.

BTW, they also did it to the Apollo ALSEP stations.

dicktice · 2005-03-17 11:16:20

"They?" Let's name some names, all of you who're writing and wringing your hands. They're individuals, and they deserve to be blamed as well as complimented for the results of their decisions while empowered.

Palomar · 2005-03-17 11:47:40

*Um...don't we already have 2 threads established for the other topic(s) currently being brought up here?

http://www.newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=983]NASA shrinks, eight grand to go

http://www.newmars.com/forums/viewtopic … 13]Voyager Project & Funding

IMO, it'd be nice if this thread stays on-topic for Spirit and Opportunity updates, discoveries, news...

--Cindy

::EDIT:: http://www.spacedaily.com/images/mars-m … jpg]Spirit might have captured a meteor streaking across the sky on Sol 426 yesterday evening

:band:

Palomar · 2005-03-18 13:42:46

http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewsr.html?pid=15832]Oppy arrives at Vostok

*Crater is nearly completely filled with sand. Has begun measurements of soil and rock there. Problem with MTES...likely due to age.

Examining soil target named "Laika" and a rock named "Gagarin." Will use rock-abrasion tool on Gagarin.

--Cindy

C M Edwards · 2005-03-19 09:52:50

http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewsr.html?pid=15832]Oppy arrives at Vostok
*Crater is nearly completely filled with sand.

Hmm...

I wonder if Vostok's age can be estimated based on the rate it filled. That would give us a better estimate for Endurance, too.

Palomar · 2005-03-19 10:05:34

http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewsr.html?pid=15832]Oppy arrives at Vostok
*Crater is nearly completely filled with sand.
Hmm...
I wonder if Vostok's age can be estimated based on the rate it filled. That would give us a better estimate for Endurance, too.

*I wondered that too. But have read that Mars craters can be buried, "exhumed" and reburied again, over the aeons.

Maybe it wouldn't tell us anything? ???

Just a comment.

--Cindy

C M Edwards · 2005-03-19 10:47:12

Here's a discussion of estimating fill rates. Don't know about excavation & refilling, but knowing the time required to fill a crater once could at least give a minimum estimate.

http://www.marscraterconsortium.nau.edu … df]Martian Crater Degredation

atomoid · 2005-03-22 04:52:45

The speeed of craters filling up could mostly depend upon climate and erosion rates, which now were seeing through Mars Express might have been radically different just a few short millions of years ago. who knows, maybe the craters that formed when it was wet here filled up with the help of sea sediment in just a few decades and subsequent craters that formed in a drier time not predictably long after that never filled up and are preserved in that 'fresh' state like endurance and victoria. it could be these craters arent much newer than the others in the scheme of things Martian..

it gets to be ambiguous to even try to guess at all, when what probably matters most is the fluid history of the area. So it seems all bets are off... or on... if you chance to guess...

Palomar · 2005-03-22 10:59:02

http://www.space.com/missionlaunches/05 … tml]Spirit captures Deimos crossing the Sun

:up:

*This is Spirit's first time to record Deimos moving in front of Sol; otherwise it's been only Phobos.

They're anticipating both MERs living into 2006 and capturing more occultations, which of course will lead to further knowledge of both D & P, etc.

--Cindy

SpaceNut · 2005-03-22 13:23:21

Sure seems like a lot of time is spent looking up but so would I if I were the first human to set foot on Mars as well day or night.
Go rovers ...

Shaun Barrett · 2005-03-22 19:51:09

Yes, I've often wondered about our crater-counting method of determining the age of terrain on Mars. If Mars has had intermittent wet epochs, when major erosion has occurred, followed by intervals of atmospheric attenuation and extreme dryness, then counting craters and judging their ages by their state of preservation may be leading us seriously astray.
It may work on the Moon, where we know there's never been any weathering apart from a continual rain of micrometeorites, but I think Mars' erosional history is probably much too complex.
???

SpaceNut · 2005-03-25 14:14:47

A neat image perspective of where we were with Pathfinder sojourner as compared to the rovers of today.

Shaun Barrett · 2005-03-25 20:05:25

Yeah, Spacenut.
It would be interesting to have the Mars Science Laboratory rover in the line-up, too. A parade of past, present, and future!

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