ISS Woes & To-Mars

GCNRevenger · 2005-01-05 09:30:12

There isn't any question that oxygen candles aren't practical for long term use, they would simply be too heavy. Even lugging along bottled oxygen or LOX for breathing would be pretty heavy. Besides, we will need to figure out how to recycle the majority of LSS supplies anyway, and I think we can and should get it right before going on to Mars.

Oh, and the Oxygen generator is a piece of Russian hardware.

SpaceNut · 2005-01-12 05:25:04

Ottawa will have to increase space agency budget for Mars missions: Marc Garneau

The future of the space station would be discussed at a Jan. 26 meeting in Montreal with the heads of the world's space agencies.
But he added the space station program isn't in jeopardy.
"All of the partners have agreed that they will support their undertakings until at least 2016."

SpaceNut · 2005-03-04 20:14:53

While some may laugh at the old technology of the russian and for there lack of Nasa size funds. I find that they have been an ok partner as it goes for the ISS. They have done what Nasa has not since the disastorous ending of the shuttle.

They have said that they are interested in the vision but can they do much if there cash flow does not change.

NON-LANDING FLIGHT TO MARS POSSIBLE BY 2014 Given sufficient funding, Russian cosmonautics can by 2014 manage an orbital flight to Mars without landing.

2018-2020 Russian cosmonautics will be ready to perform a Martian mission with landing. "But only if there is sufficient financing and cooperation with other countries of Europe are the words of a cosmonaut. Thou no name is quoted for these woeds.

Commodore · 2005-03-04 20:31:23

While some may laugh at the old technology of the russian and for there lack of Nasa size funds. I find that they have been an ok partner as it goes for the ISS. They have done what Nasa has not since the disastorous ending of the shuttle.
They have said that they are interested in the vision but can they do much if there cash flow does not change.
http://en.rian.ru/rian/index.cfm?prd_id … o_alert=0] NON-LANDING FLIGHT TO MARS POSSIBLE BY 2014 Given sufficient funding, Russian cosmonautics can by 2014 manage an orbital flight to Mars without landing.
2018-2020 Russian cosmonautics will be ready to perform a Martian mission with landing. "But only if there is sufficient financing and cooperation with other countries of Europe are the words of a cosmonaut. Thou no name is quoted for these woeds.

I bet they could, but it would be a monumental waste of time and money.

Which is exactly why Europe is apt to give it a second thought.

SpaceNut · 2005-03-09 14:41:09

I am some what bothered by the comments in this article of how to get rid of garbage and a tilt to the station.

ISS Crew Commander Addresses Litter, Space Station "Tilt" in Ham Contact were among topics ISS Expedition 10 Commander Leroy Chiao.

One Bentley youngster worried that space would becoming as polluted with trash as Earth. Chiao acknowledged that while rubbish is thrown from the ISS "every now and then," and even garbage went overboard from the now-defunct Russian Mir space station. But he assured the youngster that littering in space can be an acceptable disposal method.
"That's really not as big of a problem as you might think, because what happens is that over the course of a few days, the orbit decays, and it burns up in the atmosphere, so it's really not a long-term problem," Chiao explained. "But we do have to be careful to throw things off in the proper direction and at the right speed so that it won't come back and hit us."

Another youngster said he and his schoolmates had read that the ISS tilts when the astronauts go on space walks. He asked if Chiao knew why this happened.
"That is kind of a mystery," the astronaut answered. "We're not really sure why during some of the space walks we do--including the one that Salizhan and I took a few weeks ago--the space station ended up tilting a little bit and we believe it's because of the forces we're putting into the station while we're working."
Chiao said speculation is that when the crew members are outside the ISS holding onto handrails, every time they turn bolts or have to do something that applies some force on the spacecraft, it causes a physical reaction by "tilting" the ISS.

SpaceNut · 2005-03-10 11:48:17

Reasons for why we must make better use of the ISS,
closed loop recycling of water ,waste and air as well as
studing the effects of no gravity on the human body for long duration.

Going to Mars in Earth orbit

Many will agree to disagree on this one statement but read further as to why we must use the station to its fullest.

The debate over the station's relevance has hovered over its history from the very beginning, with many calling it a white elephant, sucking up funding that could be better used elsewhere.

See into the future from the vantage point of one that help shape the US presence in space:

As Wernher von Braun wrote in 1954, "No expedition (to the moon or planets) can be made until after at least a temporary manned space station has been put together in an orbit around the Earth, for the space station is, in a manner of speaking, the springboard for longer trips."

GCNRevenger · 2005-03-10 13:41:27

This has been the same sorry excuse for a long long time to keep the ISS around. How many astronauts have to withstand a 6mo Zero-G stint until we can say its safe enough?

Asside from deploying power systems, which can be done by remote control, the Mars explorers would not be in a rush to do anything immediatly after landing either.

And I don't buy this talk that you have to test the regenerative life support system in space. Gasses behave in space much like they do on Earth, and fluid behavior can be predicted pretty well. If need be, put the thing on an expendable rocket and test it on a satelite, it would probobly be cheaper then launching it with Shuttle to the station.

Yang Liwei Rocket · 2005-03-11 21:56:42

Reasons for why we must make better use of the ISS,
closed loop recycling of water ,waste and air as well as
studing the effects of no gravity on the human body for long duration.
http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID=200 … 207-7332r] Going to Mars in Earth orbit
Many will agree to disagree on this one statement but read further as to why we must use the station to its fullest.
The debate over the station's relevance has hovered over its history from the very beginning, with many calling it a white elephant, sucking up funding that could be better used elsewhere.
See into the future from the vantage point of one that help shape the US presence in space:
As Wernher von Braun wrote in 1954, "No expedition (to the moon or planets) can be made until after at least a temporary manned space station has been put together in an orbit around the Earth, for the space station is, in a manner of speaking, the springboard for longer trips."

yes, and space daily has also posted news on this one ( if you can avoid Jeff Bell's rants )

to quote them

Many Americans have questioned repeatedly the usefulness of the International Space Station, but it stands as NASA's only gateway at the moment to the rest of the solar system. Without the station - or something comparable - it will be difficult if not impossible for U.S. engineers and scientists to do the research necessary to make interplanetary travel possible....
....What critics may not realize, however, is the human exploration of the solar system - as proposed by President Bush in a speech Jan. 14, 2004, on his ambitious new space initiative - cannot embark without the extensive long-term engineering and medical research that can only be conducted in low-Earth orbit. The only vehicle available for such activity at the moment is the space station.
As Wernher von Braun wrote in 1954, "No expedition (to the moon or planets) can be made until after at least a temporary manned space station has been put together in an orbit around the Earth, for the space station is, in a manner of speaking, the springboard for longer trips."
Or, to put it another way, you cannot learn the consequences of spending several years in space until you have spent several years in space. Before the first pioneers can board a spaceborne fleet heading out across the vast black ocean between the planets, their precursors must spend decades in low-Earth orbit, with the blue-white glittering home planet never more than a few hundred miles away.

they have just repeated much of the info in SpaceNut's link

GCNRevenger · 2005-03-11 22:31:56

"Or, to put it another way, you cannot learn the consequences of spending several years in space until you have spent several years in space. Before the first pioneers can board a spaceborne fleet heading out across the vast black ocean between the planets, their precursors must spend decades in low-Earth orbit, with the blue-white glittering home planet never more than a few hundred miles away."

More misty-eyed ISS-infatuation nonsense...

In the nearer term, say the next twenty to thirty years, we won't be spending years in space. We'll be spending about six months tops, perhaps only a few months in space... the time it takes to get to and from Mars.

The "but we have to test it in space!" rhetorict just doesn't hold up either, there is no reason that virtually all hardware can't be tested on the ground and non-gravity-agnostic devices simulated. If we absolutely had to fly something, we could do it far cheaper by putting it in an unmanned spare CEV capsule and put it in orbit for a few months, instead of paying $1-2Bn a year propping up the thrice-da**ed ISS.

SpaceNut · 2005-03-15 09:13:25

Well the latest progress resupply ship has docked and the cargo has been off loaded. Amongst the items are the parts to fix an air lock. ISS Crew To Restore Use Of The Quest Airlock For March 28 Spacewalk

The replacement of the heat exchanger is scheduled for next week. The job will set the stage to restore use of the airlock as a base for spacewalks using U.S. spacesuits.

Part of this crews task have been to monitor strategically placed sound measuring devices that document noise levels.

The Station's Elektron oxygen-generating system has operated intermittently during the past week and Sharipov is scheduled to perform further troubleshooting on it.

A New Company has been formed To Oversee European sections of the ISS Operations in a joint venture
Really not sure of this having any real impact thou.

SpaceNut · 2005-03-15 12:21:41

NASA ISS Flight Program Launch Schedule 10 March 2005

A total of 7 shuttle flights are schedueled and in addition the charts does show the Russian and other partner nations also providing some service to the station.

SpaceNut · 2005-03-16 13:08:40

Well we have been wondering about the ISS spacewalks, the overload on gyro's and firing of stabalizing engines.

Space station loses gyro

A circuit breaker aboard the international space station popped open early today, interrupting power to one of the three operational gyroscopes used to maintain the lab's orientation in space.
The circuit breaker in question, known as a remote power controller, was installed during a spacewalk last June by Expedition 9.

If the gyro's can not be fixed it becomes probematic for the next shuttle crew.

SpaceNut · 2005-03-18 06:59:43

NASA Shifts Plans for Space Station

Keenly aware of how deadly debris impacts can be — the shuttle was destroyed due to wing damage from a piece of foam insulation that fell off the fuel tank during launch — NASA, for example, is stepping up inspections of and installing more protective shielding on the orbital outpost.

Well with that in mind would that also not preclude more shuttle flights would be necessary. ???

SpaceNut · 2005-03-18 13:29:14

It at this point seems that Nasa is intent not to go fix the gyro at this time.
NASA to put off fixing space station glitch; Only 2 of 4 gyroscopes working

The gyroscope shut down on Wednesday after a circuit breaker popped. Its failure left the space station with just two of its four positioning gyroscopes working.

What would make a gyro system draw more current than it was designed for. Since I am sure the circuit breaker is not at fault.

050317_circuit_vlg_5p.vlarge.jpg

srmeaney · 2005-03-19 04:54:42

The ISS must become a colony where the colonists are employed to assemble bigger and better space stations. That means ethical (not millitary, gun in the safe, dictatorship), with Work for Room and board, Commonwealth. All with an annual colony budget of one million billion dollars a year, As Issued by a recognised Galactic Commonwealth.

ps. what makes a gyro draw more current than neccesary? a bad solder link or continuous exposure to fluctuating electromagnetic radiation. Either way, someone didn't do their job right.

SpaceNut · 2005-03-21 06:19:36

I think the gyro design is also very similar to that to which is also used on the Hubble and we know how often we must replace them...

GCNRevenger · 2005-03-23 10:08:15

What? no, the Hubble ones are much smaller, only suitcase sized, not washing-machine sized.

Palomar · 2005-03-23 10:23:10

*The ISS to Mars?

The ISS as a colony?

Get real. *That* orbiting lemon?

Read Zubrin's The Case for Mars; the ISS isn't built for such a journey to begin with. Geez, I'm no GCN nor Robert Dyck and even I know that. (It's also not big enough to be converted into a *colony* -- I thought most everyone interested in space exploration knew that already).

I can't believe the number of people I've seen even *suggesting* such a silly notion. Sure, and drive your grandfather's model-T to the North Pole.

:laugh: ::shakes head::

I'll say the ISS astronauts are brave; you wouldn't get me up there in that floating bucket of bolts.

--Cindy

Palomar · 2005-03-28 18:14:28

http://www.spaceflightnow.com/station/e … .html]Gyro experiences an "unusually high vibration"

*Approximately 5 minutes after a spacewalk. They're saying it was an "order of magnitude higher than any such event in the past." Engineers at work, trying to identify the cause and "if" anything is wrong (nah...just a coincidence I'll bet).

The station is equipped with four control moment gyros, but CMG-1 failed in 2002 and CMG-2 went off line March 16 when a circuit breaker malfunctioned. Spacewalkers aboard the shuttle Discovery plan to restore CMG-2 to operation in May by re-routing power to the gyro during an already planned spacewalk. CMG-1 will be replaced during another spacewalk.

Anyone here still in favor of taking the ISS to Mars?

--Cindy

P.S.: This is not the same article nor situation as SpaceNut posted on the 16th.

SpaceNut · 2005-03-29 06:20:20

Yes maybe coincidence but it has been seen before but not to this magnitude. It would seem that having only 2 running gyro's is more than they can compensate for station direction keeping, when the crew is outside making repairs. It was said in the article that Discovery's mission would have little effect on the station in the event of a possible new gyro failure before they can get there.
The gyro problems are looking more and more like they are designed to either break or to wearout just like Hubbles. You would think that the design would be rock solid by now.

GCNRevenger · 2005-03-29 10:51:07

Why would they have to be built "solid," after all, we can always just send up a new copy or refurbished one on Shuttle?

Oh wait...

...Stupid moron ISS builders

SpaceNut · 2005-03-29 11:01:08

Term "rock solid" meaning tough to break, robust in design and not easily worn out. Sorry if I was confusing.

GCNRevenger · 2005-03-30 07:52:04

Confusing? No, I was being sarcastic.

I am suspicious that the ISS gyros and other componets were not being built to work for a long time with a high degree of certainty because the ISS designers assumed they would have the (or at least a) Space Shuttle to handle big/heavy items as long as the station was running.

...Which was pretty stupid

Rxke · 2005-03-30 11:28:18

I'd bet them gyro's are very old designs, late 1970's stuff.
Just look at the older, 'wild dreams' drawings of the station from that time, a lot of the hardware looks suspiciously similar to the stuff they use today. i bet them gyro's were being built, or started when everyone still thought the shuttle would be an order of magnitude cheaper way to get into orbit. Sigh...

SpaceNut · 2005-04-05 10:18:38

Space station repositioned to protect gyro

NASA is flying the International Space Station in a position that reduces stress on one of its two working steering gyroscopes, and flight controllers plan to "baby" the critical steering device until the first shuttle in more than two years arrives.
The alignment, which is basically perpendicular to the ground and pointed "nose" first, has been shown to reduce the current reaching the critical steering device. The gyro has shown signs of trouble, including a vibration not unlike a glitch seen earlier by another gyro that ultimately failed.

There are a series of different positions the station can fly. Normally, it would be flying in a position that maximizes the amount of power its solar arrays draw from the sun.

I am wondering if the orientation has anything to do with magnetic fields as the size of the station increases?

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