Name That American War! - Give me a year, I'll give you a war.

Ian Flint · 2005-03-08 08:16:16

But as for America provoking most of our wars, think about that for a minute. Think of all the places and times we've supposedly provoked a conflict. Now think of the land we hold. The continental U.S. (granted, largely by force, particularly in the West), Alaska (purchased from Russia), Hawaii, and a few more islands. We very easily could have taken Mexico in the 1840s; we didn't. Cuba in 1900; we didn't. Canada on several occasions if I remember correctly; we didn't. All of Europe and Japan post-World War II and if we had played our cards right, the USSR; we didn't and we won't.

True, we didn't actually claim those places as U.S. territory, but we didn't have to. We took half of Mexico, now we dominate that country. We pushed the cold war arms race until it bankrupted Russia. The point is that using our military, the U.S. has forced 'cooperation' on other countries. Often, the military has been used to intimidate another country when a U.S. business is caught breaking their local laws. We don't have to actually claim the land for America when we can intimidate the locals into doing our will.

Cobra Commander · 2005-03-08 08:23:41

We don't have to actually claim the land for America when we can intimidate the locals into doing our will.

The real question then is whether it's better that we intimidate them or they do so to us. Sure, it's easy to condemn America's use of such tactics but that's how the world works. If people were all good, honest and reasonable it wouldn't be an issue but such is not the case.

I'd much rather we do a little gentle persuasion than be on the recieving end of the more direct variety.

By objective analysis, war is the natural state of humanity.

Palomar · 2005-03-08 08:45:02

We took half of Mexico, now we dominate that country.

*It might interest you to know that the Mexican government seems not care any more for its indigenous population than Canada nor the U.S. theirs. I've read plenty of complaints of Natives in Mexico who hate the Mexican gov't and accuse them of racist policies (many of those claims justifably so).

Also, the more Spanish blood/ancestry folks in Mexico have, the better off they are, socioeconomically speaking. I live close to the Mexico border and have access to many Spanish television stations. The actors and actresses which populate their shows generally look very European.

There's plenty of blame to go around.

--Cindy

P.S.: Going back to the Mexican government issue and its dealings with the Natives, many Mexican gov't officials themselves are of mixed ancestry, i.e. Spaniard and Native. Who do they favor, though? The Spaniards.

John Creighton · 2005-03-08 11:19:06

1812 wasn’t that when some rogue militia from the US attacked Canada and eventually got drove back by a band of Indians. Didn’t something similar happen in Mexico. Hence the Alamo.

Cobra Commander · 2005-03-08 11:37:47

1812 wasn’t that when some rogue militia from the US attacked Canada and eventually got drove back by a band of Indians.

Their were multiple causes for that war; internal pressures, direct grievances with Britain and secondary issues stemming from the war in Europe. Seizure of American shipping, impressment of American citizens by the British Navy, and a general British disregard for American sovereignty combined with an expansionist tendency of the US all played a role. Some US forces did invade Canada and were repulsed by a combination of Indian tribes and British forces. The whole campaign was poorly coordinated from the start, but that's par for a war in which one of the biggest battles was fought after the war ended.

The Mexico situation was an equally complex mess, centered largely around American settlers in Texas refusing to accept Mexican rule and instead fighting for an independent Texas. Which was annexed by the US shortly thereafter.

Perhaps should've annexed all of Mexico.

Grypd · 2005-03-08 11:48:56

I don't know what ended in 1900, but here is some other stuff:
1899 - 1901 -- "Major U.S. forces are committed in the Philippines to put down a generalized independence movement. Operations conducted by Brigadier Generals J. Franklin Bell and "Hell Roaring Jake" Smith are consciously genocidal, especially with regard to tribal "Moros" in the southern islands. Upwards of 600,000 Fillipinos are killed. The island of Luzon then becomes the primary basing area for U.S. military operations in Far East (a distinction it retained into the early 1990s).
Sorry Grypd, no stars.

Hah Hah, I kind of thought it was appropiate, given these troubled times.

In 1899 a society of susposed religous origin started to attack and kill foreigners and christians in China. The society was called the boxers by us though there true name was rather convuluted, The fists of righteous harmony. They truly where doing unspeakable acts to terrify the population into there way of thinking. It culminated in a siege of what was called the legations in Beijing, though technically not supported by the reigning monarch they where given chinese army weapons and advice. The legations managed to hold off over 20000 boxers who wished to rip them apart and suffered bombardment by heavy artillery in hastily made up defences

Why was it appropiate well a coalition of nations sent there troops and lead by the USA to break the siege and restore order and freedom to China. They succeeded even when the Imperial army actually dropped its neutrality and openly attacked the coalition.

August the 14th was when beijing fell and the legations where saved and incidentally the Ching dynasty lost most of its power. So starting the way that China is lead today.

Ian Flint · 2005-03-08 11:51:10

Also, the more Spanish blood/ancestry folks in Mexico have, the better off they are, socioeconomically speaking. I live close to the Mexico border and have access to many Spanish television stations. The actors and actresses which populate their shows generally look very European.

I lived in Mexico for two years, so I can confirm this personally. Many morenos (dark skinned people) would rather be gueros (light skinned). I was genuinly surprised at how racist some Mexicans could be.

Cobra Commander · 2005-03-08 12:08:07

I was genuinly surprised at how racist some Mexicans could be.

Why should that be surprising? ???

Palomar · 2005-03-08 12:28:02

I was genuinly surprised at how racist some Mexicans could be.
Why should that be surprising? ???

*I can't answer for Ian of course, but I'd like to chime in. I used to be surprised too, I guess on the basis of U.S. dominance vs Mexico being poorer and etc. (and certain racial situations).

Around here, lots of U.S.-born Latinos look down their noses at Mexican Nationals, and call them "wet-backs" in Spanish (I don't know how that word is spelled). Of course if an "Anglo" or someone of a different race/ethnicity were to call a Mexican National that, those same Latinos would be upset. Humans... Wrong is wrong, IMO.

My sister-in-law's ex-husband's family often accused her of having had an affair because their grandson had a slightly darker complexion. They also bragged how her husband "looked gringo" -- he looked SO white and they were proud of him. I met this man personally and recently saw a photo of him; he looks no more Caucasian than I do Asian.

People can be so screwed up.

I'm glad my parents did not raise my sister nor I to be racist. My best friend back home (since before Kindergarten) is Korean by birth, my husband Latino.

--Cindy

clark · 2005-03-08 14:29:32

My great-grandfather shot a man in Mexico and fled to this country, or so I am told.

Ian Flint · 2005-03-09 08:13:45

Is that where the legend of the one-eyed hobo started?

Ian Flint · 2005-03-09 08:17:07

Ok, since the thread has strayed off topic a bit, I'll deliver on the promised name of the book.

"On the Justice of Roosting Chickens: Reflections on the Consequences of U.S. Imperial Arrogance and Criminality" by Ward Churchill.

Cobra Commander · 2005-03-09 08:45:31

"On the Justice of Roosting Chickens: Reflections on the Consequences of U.S. Imperial Arrogance and Criminality" by Ward Churchill.

Oh, that's even worse than I could have imagined. :laugh:

Well, me and the other "little Eichmanns" have to get back to work spreading misery, oppression and death across the globe. :;):

Ian Flint · 2005-03-09 09:00:48

I knew you'd approve! :laugh:

clark · 2005-03-10 12:00:03

Is that where the legend of the one-eyed hobo started?

No, it started in a box-car travelling north. I asked him where we were going, he replied, "just enjoy the ride."

To add to my familial legacy, my great grandfather didn't kill the man. He high tailed it out of there because the man he shot had friends, and well, in that place, in that time, it was best for him to leave the ranchero. :laugh:

BWhite · 2005-03-10 12:23:03

Speaking of Mexico, here is some gringo http://www.tdg.ch/tghome/tgnews.detailc … 0.html]mud in your eye!

Edited By BWhite on 1110479049

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#26 2005-03-08 08:16:16

Re: Name That American War! - Give me a year, I'll give you a war.

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#31 2005-03-08 11:48:56

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