Mars On Earthpolitician Against SpaceExploration - Mars On Earth

Ian · 2005-02-17 09:26:48

I'm against giving stuff only to the few and not to the many.

Cobra Commander · 2005-02-17 09:31:35

Then better technology needs to be developed so that everyone can go to Mars and I agree. How can we go to Mars ever if the public views it as being only for the wealthy?

But it isn't for the "wealthy". We aren't going to build a big posh rocket so George Soros, Donald Trump and Bill Gates can go golfing on Mars.

For exploration missions we would use taxpayer money, from everyone, to send a crew selected on merit. It's exclusive, but not in a class sense.

For colonization the same applies, just with more openings.

Ian · 2005-02-17 09:40:54

For exploration missions we would use taxpayer money, from everyone, to send a crew selected on merit. It's exclusive, but not in a class sense.

For colonization the same applies, just with more openings.

I feel relieved. I thought based on the public's view of Space Exploration liike Space Tourism "Which is only for the rich" that only the wealthy would go into space. But I guess I was wrong about only the wealthy going into space in the Marssociety.

idiom · 2005-02-17 12:11:49

It is for the rich who want to become poor by sharing the love and building up a space economy.

Ultimately it is the visionaries who do believe in egality that are building the next generation gear. People who went from poor to rich and have a grip on the realities of capitialism.

Commodore · 2005-02-17 16:23:02

Everyone will benifit from a manned Mars exploration program, just as everyone has benifited from the current space program.

People just can't expect instant gratification.

Grypd · 2005-02-17 17:10:28

Everyone will benifit from a manned Mars exploration program, just as everyone has benifited from the current space program.
People just can't expect instant gratification.

But what you have to remember it sounds lovely that the United States economy benefitted by 7 dollars for each dollar spent on space. But the average Joe did not really see it and once the First Moon Mission landed they turned off there TVs and ignored the program in droves.

But there is never people marching down your high street claiming that the space program should be funded. There is never people on corners collecting money for the Mars Society. Space exploration is considered the domain of the super intelligent rocket scientist and space jockey. In fact it is considered airy fairy land for a common person to want to be involved. Children dream of it not adults.

So if we want to sell space and to defeat those who oppose us we need to get the commen person involved. We need to make them feel personally excited and that space is doing things which not only personally benefit them but that they can actually do things to advance it.

Now this is hard but we have to try otherwise you may see all the current space programs cut one day by a new administration that considers sorting out home problems first and space a pure waste of resources.

Commodore · 2005-02-17 17:18:34

Then were not doing enough to inform people of just how much MRI's, tang, and $2 billion dolar pens affect their daily lives.

Maybe a couple ISRU units developed to build structures out of Lunar/Martian dirt can do the same in the poor regions of the Earth. Maybe the radioactive shielding developed for space suits can be added to thermal isolation in houses and cut canser rates in half.

Maybe (theres a high probability) I'm preaching to the choir!

Grypd · 2005-02-17 17:33:14

Commodore you certainly are.

I dont honestly know the answer to my own questions. I do know though that it is those questions and how we answer them that will either kill or enable Mars missions and Colonisation.

If we can make the commen person think that they actually have a chance to be able to go and live on Mars, And make a new exciting life where they are investing in the future for themselves and there children then they are on our side.

But to do that we have to be able to send people to stay and we have to be seen to be increasing the capacity for sending people. We have to build colony ships.

Ian · 2005-02-17 18:38:06

If we can make the commen person think that they actually have a chance to be able to go and live on Mars, And make a new exciting life where they are investing in the future for themselves and there children then they are on our side.

I think that this can be done. There is an exhibit at the Franlin Institute in Philadelphia. (I live in Philadelphia) that is called space command and it educates people about space exploration and it involves the public. I think that these kind of programs could probably help.

Martian Republic · 2005-02-17 19:11:22

My only solution to getting people excited about space is to have another John F. Kennedy or possibly another FDR, but have a Brenton Wood Agreement for developing space. Of course that would mean that we had the press on board to keep it in front of the American people so that they can see progress and see the benefits that we get by doing a space program. Of course that a tall order and it will be hard to fill that order. I suppose one way that we could start that process is to sell it as a jobs program, which it would be.

Larry,

SpaceNut · 2005-02-18 05:28:24

It's not the choir or the sound of the instruments that are heard though it is the sound of the cash register that has drowned out all chance of the not informed from knowing that these things have given many more chances for success in life.

What of those things done on the ISS have or has had the same effect of inventiveness. To what has been yielded from all the dollars spent? What of these programs have yielded such items as the apollo era did?

Ian · 2005-02-18 06:16:57

They experiment if zero gravity on the space station how to improve industries and agriculture and medicine and they are also studying our planet from space and I don't know if they are doing anything that would help us get to Mars except if they have a docking port for the Mars Colony Ship that would go to and from Mars, that would make it easier. The ship wouldn't have to immediatly have to land on the ground. There could be small ships that would go from the Earth to the small docking ports in the International Space Station and those small ships would be able to land safely on the ground similar to how the space shuttle lands on the ground and the ships could also dock with another space station orbiting mars and that one should also have docking ports for small spacecraft designed to land on mars like the lander that is already designed to land on Mars and if it's not designed for that, I think that it should be.

Ian · 2005-02-22 13:24:19

Does anyone think that ordinary people can buy real estate on Mars just like some company did with the moon?

idiom · 2005-02-23 01:04:28

Who are you going to buy it from? Just claim it. Then sell it. Repeat.

Eventually you have enough money to defend a claim by being there.

Grypd · 2005-02-23 05:16:39

There is a Scottish lawyer who put a claim to the Sun as no one else had and we now all owe him a few billion years of energy charges. He did it to show the stupidity of the current laws dealing with extra terrestrial property.

The idea that anyone can claim large parts of the Moon or Mars without actually being there is anathema to me and it wont be until someone actually does go that it will be shown as a very stupid gift fad. Especially as the first nation that goes there will simply ignore any such claim as a worthless piece of paper.

There is an organisation called the Lunar republic that actually intends to go to the moon by selling land there.
http://www.lunarrepublic.com/]Lunar Republic

The only way to stop these ridiculous claims and actually interest buisness and Nations to go out there is to have an outer space treaty where all nations are signatory that gives legal protection to peoples claims as long as they are being "worked" and allowing them to use materials so gleaned and to be able to get a profit for them or to not have to pay every other country a share for its use.

idiom · 2005-02-23 16:49:14

Include a limit to the amount of claimable land per person resident and you nearly have something workable.

How did gold rush claims work?

SpaceNut · 2005-02-28 05:43:23

The claim was surveyed and clearly marked but it was also defended by thoses that layed claim to it against those that would try to profitter from taking it from the owner.

Ian · 2005-03-09 12:55:19

How did the Europeans claim land over here in the 17'th century and how did they make that actually work?

Grypd · 2005-03-09 14:03:20

How did the Europeans claim land over here in the 17'th century and how did they make that actually work?

In 1493 pope Alexander VI gave to Portugal and Spain the rights to Invade and conquer the new world. This was so it could be brought forcibly into the Catholic church.

So Portugal and Spain did just that but they concentrated on areas where there was a population they could work on leaving What is continental USA as it was so sparsly inhabited.

This though drew the English who with the possibilities of the Cash crop tobbacco and a population divided by various christian faiths would create colonies to make and utilise those resources.

The Dutch where drawn to create trading colonies but as they where stymied by there fighting with the Spanish and with the English colonies being poor it is not surprising that they did not do well enough for the Dutch company. The Dutch colonisation effort was very much a company or buisness concern.

The French also created colonies but they where similar to the English and Dutch way of doing things with a little tweak they got on better with the indigenous peoples that where present.

The Scots attempted to go the way of the Dutch but they chose a poor spot and had the same problems as the Dutch with lack of trade and hostile Spanish and they failed.

How did these countries claim land in the End apart from some initial starts by the power of gunpowder and through military action. The English with its Navy and with France and Spain concentrating on other matters and with a political marriage with Holland eventually won crushing the others.

The basic means of claiming land was might made right.

SpaceNut · 2005-03-18 13:36:31

Nasa has begun changes maybe not for the better of some of its staff but non the less for the future based impart on the known number of dollars expected to get in the near off. Some of these changes are the cancellation of missions and this may even include pieces of the ISS.

Bush’s space focus requires cuts elsewhere

Also on the block is the space station's Centrifuge Accommodation Module, an eight-foot-diameter device under construction for NASA at Ames by the Japan Aerospace Exploration Agency.
The centrifuge is designed to test artificial gravity in space on organisms ranging in size from cells to laboratory rats, offering the first opportunity ever to collect data on the effects of prolonged weightlessness, a serious health hazard for astronauts during long-duration spaceflights such as those envisioned in a future Mars mission.

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