Corporal Punishment on Mars - Should it be Permitted or Not?

Scott G. Beach · 2005-02-20 13:22:20

To Page C. Faulk, General Counsel of the U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission

Dear Ms. Faulk:

Today I filed a Consumer Product Incident Report about the beating of Shelly Gaspersohn. I have appended a copy of that report.

Miss Gaspersohn was beaten with a wooden spanking paddle in December, 1981. I filed a report about this incident because it is relatively well documented. Miss Gaspersohn gave testimony about this beating during a United States Senate subcommittee hearing. A transcript of her testimony is posted on the Internet at http://www.nospank.net/shelly.htm]http: … shelly.htm

The beating of Miss Gaspersohn illustrates the fact that a spanking paddle can cause serious injury to a child’s buttocks and severe psychological trauma. Miss Gaspersohn testified that subsequent to being beaten she repeatedly had nightmares that Glenn Varney, the man who had beaten her, was chasing her for the purpose of catching her and killing her.

Children should not be subjected to such torture. Please help me to stop it. Please allow my petition to be docketed at the earliest possible time.

Sincerely, Scott G. Beach

cc: Chairman Stratton, Vice Chairman Moore, Todd Stevenson, et al.

dicktice · 2005-02-20 15:09:25

Scott G Beach: I can't help wondering: What has all this tedium (sorry, but it's so ho-hum) to do with crime and (what--spanking?) punishment on Mars?

Scott G. Beach · 2005-02-20 22:46:29

Mr. Tice:

During the past 30 years, 28 states and the District of Columbia have abolished the use of corporal punishment in public schools. A proposal to ban corporal punishment in Pennsylvania will be considered this week by the Education Committee of the state's House of Representatives. This is a very contentious issue and there will be some very impassioned debates. Religious conservatives believe that children should be beaten to save their souls. Modernists believe that it is wrong to sabotage a child's brain development by subjecting the child to corporal punishment.

If you and 150 other people were living and working together to prepare for the day when you would board a rocket and begin your journey to Mars, you would probably discuss numerous political issues and get some of the most important issues settled before going to Mars. Would you advocate taking spanking paddles to Mars? Who would be authorized to use such paddles, and under what circumstances? The answers to these questions can become very complex sets of school regulations.

Would you approve of a shop teacher using steel tongs to beat students on the testicles? Should a male school principal be allowed to beat a 17-year-old girl on her bare buttocks? To make an example of her by beating her that way in a school cafeteria full of other students, male and female? If she hemorrhages from her vagina for 23 days and then dies, should the principal be immune from criminal prosecution and civil litigation? Would you approve of beating mentally disabled students? Legislators, judges, and school board members have had to deal with these very difficult issues.

You can regard these issues as "ho-hum tedium" now but if your child was being beaten bloody with steel tongs then you would feel quite passionate about corporal punishment.

clark · 2005-02-21 06:45:17

Was your child beaten bloody with steel tongs?

Mundaka · 2005-02-21 11:44:25

clark · 2005-02-21 11:52:31

Last, Scott, mind your own business. Just how long would you tolerate some Texan strutting into your town and ordering your schools and people to conform to our ethnocentric standards of social morality?

You're right, of course Mundaka. By the way, keep up the good work in your state! I still have yet to see a child or a mentaly challenged person be executed by the state, I don't want to miss out. Yup, lots of social morality to be learned from the Lone Star state.

But to be on topic, there is little accountaibility for parental responsibility of child behavior, and control of their child. It is a multi-faceted problem compounded by the changes in the modern nuclear family. Without some type of proper oversight of children, tying third parties hands to maintain control is ultimelty undermining and damaging to many of their goals (in this case, teaching).

What if schools were allowed to paddle parents of unruly children?

Mundaka · 2005-02-21 12:15:09

clark · 2005-02-21 12:22:49

Now that I think of it though, you made my point: Do you think it is appropriate for the cultural values of Texas to be imposed on Californians?

Well, Bush is President. You do the math.

Your argument is that you have the right to impose your values on us because you don't agree with our values. Cultural jingoism is fine for you -- you never claimed to be tolerant in the first place -- but Scott frequently criticises people for ethnocentrism, yet he seems to have no qualms about judgeing other cultures by his own cultural standards.

To avoid the rapid decline of this argument into one of State rights versus Federal, let me just point out that, by and large, the United States tries to represent the overall cultural values of all people within her borders. This requires a certain amount of give and take (witness the Civil War and the Civil Rights Moevement).

By and large, most places in the United State frown on beating children by state agencies. Public schools, which receive federal funding (ahem) fall into the rather uncomfortable area where we all get a say in what happens there.

Now, if Texas wants to forgo federal funding for schools, then I think you have a better leg to stand on. If parents want to enroll their kids in private schools that allow such punishment, well, who am i to judge.

But that isn't the case here, so while I am inclined to believe that schools shouldn't be beating kids, I am more than inclined to look the other way when a kid gets smacked for a pretty legitimate reason. [shrug] Sometimes turning a blind eye is okay, but not usually. One of them ugly fine lines with gray squishy morality I suppose.

Mundaka · 2005-02-21 12:42:58

clark · 2005-02-21 12:50:42

Do I bring up Reagan? Nah . . .

Come on, California will elect anybody. Arnie, 2008!

(I'm trying to maintain flexabilty and commonsense here.)

Oh, now you're going moderate on me. Sell out.

Well, to be honest, I sympathise with your viewpoint, I''m not sure I trust current school faculty with my kids enough to let them have that authority either; however, I'm worried about the absolutist positions taken here: leaving aside the abusive psychos for the moment, if the only alternatives to corporal punishment will mark a kids future, are they more desirable?

I would prefer to give school administrators the latitude to eject unruly children from a classroom, and barring that option, to instutite some form of enforced community service as a form of punishment. Make them work in the cafateria, or wash cars for school fund drives.

We don't beat our prisoners (as a policy), so why should kids be any different [the little hoodlums].

Scott G. Beach · 2005-02-21 17:32:00

Clark:

It should be noted that Jessica Serafin has brought an action in Federal Court. She is alleging that her rights under the United States Constitution were violated. Everyone in the United States can legitimately be concerned about the attack on Ms. Serafin regardless of which state they currently reside in, whether that be Texas, New York, Tennessee, California, etc.

Mundaka · 2005-02-21 20:00:04

clark · 2005-02-22 06:37:45

Yeah yeah, yer just jealous because I like women.

I'm just thankful I'm not one of them. :;):

It should be noted that Jessica Serafin has brought an action in Federal Court. She is alleging that her rights under the United States Constitution were violated. Everyone in the United States can legitimately be concerned about the attack on Ms. Serafin regardless of which state they currently reside in, whether that be Texas, New York, Tennessee, California, etc.

Scott, to be honest with you, I don't care. A person was probably wrongly beaten at the hands of someone in power. It happens all the time, at least Ms. Serafin has some recourse to find clousure on the matter.

People in positions of power often times abuse those positions, or simply demonstrate poor judgement when acting in a manner that they assume to be appropriate. That dosen't always make them criminals, or bad people, it does usually mean they are foolish though.

As it stands now, I think we have an acceptable system in place where most real abuse can be discovered and ended. I don't see blanket proclamations and laws as preventing this type of behavior.

Yang Liwei Rocket · 2005-02-22 07:00:06

the Death Penalty ???

no thanks

I know folks in China are very keen on this, and many leaders, senator and governors in the USA are queit happy with this from of punishment.

Death by Injection, kill them by firing squad, Fry them in old sparky, I know Idaho & Oklahoma & Utah and others were keen on filling them with bullet holes, kill them by gas chamber technique is also there...This kind of stuff goes on in the USA, China and other places but will it be any good for Mars ?

First of all we may offend many liberals, socialist or green investors, corporations and firms and liberal individuals who may be willing to support Martian settlements whith their big Euros, Yen, Pounds, Dollars whatever. The Public will alos get very unhappy if innocents are put into old sparky by mistake.

Secondly its a waste of human flesh, manpower and resources, I say work 'em as a Punishment. Have them digging holes, grinding up rocks, until they snuff it. Kind of like a Penal Colony or a Soviet Siberian Labour Camp, and don't say those places don't punish folk enough....because they were tough places to be according to written articles
:bars2:

dicktice · 2005-02-22 09:15:57

Damn! We're gonna need additional funding to develop and check out Weightlessness Spanking Paddles (WAP's) to keep the crew in line en route to Mars--another good reason for NASA to maintain a crew of at least two on the ISS in the meantime. Good thinking, Scott!

Mundaka · 2005-02-22 09:28:45

clark · 2005-02-22 09:34:52

S&M? Spanking & Mars?

Scott G. Beach · 2005-02-28 14:52:24

February 28, 2005

Dear Chairman Stairs and Members of the Education Committee:

Pennsylvania law currently authorizes the teachers and officials of public schools to physically punish students. The State Board of Education has proposed that the use of “corporal punishment” be prohibited. When you consider the State Board’s recommendation, please also consider recently published research which shows that some children are genetically predisposed to become aggressive and violent if they are abused during childhood. These children have a diminished capacity to produce an enzyme called “monoamine oxidase A.” Striking a child who has this condition can greatly increase the likelihood that he will become an aggressive and violent adult.

Please do not allow the teachers and officials of public schools to turn children into violent adults who, in turn, use corporal punishment to turn their own children into violent adults. Please stop the vicious cycle of violence. Please abolish corporal punishment.

Sincerely, Scott G. Beach
__

Gene May Show Why Abused Boys Turn Violent
By Maggie Fox, Health and Science Correspondent
Yahoo! News, August 1, 2002

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - A single gene may explain why some boys abused in childhood -- but not all -- grow up to become violent or aggressive, researchers said on Thursday.

The gene variation seems to be activated only by mistreatment in childhood, but is found in a third of the men and young boys studied, the researchers said.

Writing in the journal Science, the international team of researchers said 85 percent of the boys who had a weakened version of the gene and who were abused turned to criminal or antisocial behavior.

"These findings may partly explain why not all victims of maltreatment grow up to victimize others," Terri Moffitt of King's College London and the University of Wisconsin, who helped lead the study, said in a statement...

clark · 2005-03-03 09:31:39

When you consider the State Board’s recommendation, please also consider recently published research which shows that some children are genetically predisposed to become aggressive and violent if they are abused during childhood. These children have a diminished capacity to produce an enzyme called “monoamine oxidase A.” Striking a child who has this condition can greatly increase the likelihood that he will become an aggressive and violent adult.

Would it be acceptable to genetically screen all children, and only beat those who do not have a diminished capacity to produce the enzyme monoamine oxidase A?

John Creighton · 2005-03-12 12:37:46

Would it be acceptable to genetically screen all children, and only beat those who do not have a diminished capacity to produce the enzyme monoamine oxidase A?

I think it would be of great benefit for parents to be able to use neurochemistry to aid parenting decisions. Whether parents would be actually knowledgeable enough to take full advantage of this information remains another question.

Scott G. Beach · 2005-03-18 17:42:35

A Crime Against Her Nature and Our Humanity

Marvin Munyon has asserted that buttocks were designed to be violently hit and that the designer, God, approves of such violence. Mr. Munyon has made these assertions during demonstrations of “the right way” to hit children. (See “Quoting Bible, Madison activist shows parents how to spank a child,” Associated Press, Sept. 24, 2000.)

I have been taught to be tolerant of people’s religious beliefs; however, there are some things that should not be tolerated. Mr. Munyon should not advocate violence against children and such violence should never be tolerated. Furthermore, any person who violently strikes the sexually sensitive areas of a child’s body is committing a crime against nature.

A female’s buttocks and thighs contain nerves that are connected to her clitoris. Those nerves were “designed” to be gently stimulated during sexual intercourse. The copulatory impulses that those nerves carry to her clitoris can provide some of the stimulation that causes an orgasm. During an orgasm, rhythmic contractions of her vagina can pump semen into her uterus. This increases the probability of conception and, eventually, childbirth.

A girl’s buttocks and thighs are part of her reproductive system. Violently striking (spanking) those organs can cause aberrant neural circuits to form in her still-developing brain. Those aberrant circuits will cause her to associate violent physical assault with sexual stimulation. When she reaches adulthood, she will be inclined to seek out violent, abusive sex partners. The girls who are born of such unions will face a high probability of suffering the same sexual torture and brain damage that was inflicted on their mothers. This new generation of girls will be sexually tortured and brain damaged and, consequently, they too will seek out violent, abusive sex partners. So this vicious cycle of violence will be perpetuated from generation to generation.

Violently striking a girl’s buttocks and thighs is a crime against her nature. When that crime is carried forward from one generation to the next, it becomes a crime against the future of our entire species. It becomes a crime against humanity.

Mr. Munyon, please do not advocate violence against children. Please help to bring such violence to an end.

Sincerely, Scott G. Beach

clark · 2005-03-18 18:03:36

I like to consider myself as tolerant as the next fella, anyone else here feeling that this thread is going a bit... well, too far?

My two cents, we have indulged this theme and the particular advocate, as spirited as he is, beyond the means of what should be considerd as allowable in a dedicated forum. Perhaps it is time to move this to Free Chat, or as I am inclined, to just shut it down. Either way, this all has nothing to do with Mars and is getting way to weird, even for me.

Sure, we should prbably approach this subject with a certain amount of intellectual distance, but I find the predisposition to focus on the ramifications of physical abuse towards female children to be a bit, well, misguided, and entirely sick. I think the message is lost in the telling.

Moderators are of course free to make their own determination, and I'm not often the one advocating this type of action, but this is simply getting to be a bit much. [shrug]

BWhite · 2005-03-18 18:28:03

Co-pro-consul consultation in progress. . .

BWhite · 2005-03-18 18:31:40

Moved to Free Chat . . .

srmeaney · 2005-03-19 04:39:37

I abhore physical violence and execution as a method of punishment. There is only one possible penalty that will end very quickly the decay that exists on this planet. Expulsion. Can you imagine the anguish and torment that comes from looking up out of a pit, the only human there, and understanding that you will never again know human contact as you look up at the Earth from a Lunar Colony where you will be left to fend for yourself or die?
Check out the very bottom of Government-galactic commonwealth vs Corporate warlords. That is what real punishment looks like. Considering children won't get to go into space until they have achieved some level of ethics that is beyond most adults, That is the burden of responsibility that will comes with just applying for citizenship.

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