Getting water on mars

Dr_Deakyne · 2005-02-16 07:00:53

Assuming that mars is eventually colonized, and we still have the technology that we do today, how would colonists get enough water to survive.
(assuming that they're not near the ice caps)

C M Edwards · 2005-02-16 13:57:07

Why assume a need to avoid the ice caps? That is, after all, where most of the known water is. For all we know, there may be no recoverable water at the lower latitudes.

As a rule, we should follow the water. We've found some; now we should follow it.

Ian Flint · 2005-02-17 14:12:26

In the 'Case for Mars' Zubrin talked about a using a large stationary piece of equipment to extract water from the atmosphere. It would use a large fan to blow air against a zeolite "sponge". The zeolite would then be heated to release the water it absorbed. It would cost about 4 Kw per 1 kg of water. This is probably the most reliable method (maybe not the most productive, though) because the air would never run out of water.

Other methods would collect water from the soil. You could use mobile microwave heaters or mobile digger/bakers. You could dig up the dirt then truck it back to an oven.

Here's a simple method: Erect a light transparent tent, let the sun bake the water out, then collect the water on a cold plate, move to another location, repeat.

We haven't even mentioned drilling, which may be the best method yet.

There's lots of water on Mars. The colonists will be able to have swimming pools.

chat · 2005-02-19 14:52:00

If you have greenhouses for food, the temp difference from inside the greenhouse to the mars surface temp should make for a condenser that requires no power, other than the greenhouse heating already required for food.

A little bit of plumbing and you have a very efficient condenser.

Dook · 2005-02-19 16:14:12

That works if you have a humid atmosphere like the earth's but mars is so cold that all the water is frozen solid in the ground and the atmoshphere is carbon dioxide.

The greenhouse would have a humid atmosphere though and water would condense on the insides but this is simply recycling of water you already have.

chat · 2005-02-20 04:26:24

Dook,

Small quantities of Water vapor do exist in the atmosphere of mars.

Since you can achieve a temperature difference of up to 240c the condenser should be extremely efficient.

I think with some plumbing that leads from inside the greenhouse to the external atmosphere, you could easily collect frost each time the pipe is heated and cooled.

We are talking a drop or two of water for each pipe cooling cycle, but 24/7 it would add up.

With a little luck you would collect more water than naturally escapes from the greenhouse.

Probably a better plan for water is to take a large container of hydrogen with you, collect the mars atmosphere and separate co2 into c and o2, use the c for plants and the o2 with the hydrogen for water, or o2 to simply breathe.

Big electricity bill for that though.

SpaceNut · 2005-02-21 10:19:15

Just might be easier than we thought. ???
'Pack ice' suggests frozen sea on Mars

A frozen sea, surviving as blocks of pack ice, may lie just beneath the surface of Mars, suggest observations from Europe's Mars Express spacecraft. The sea is just 5° north of the Martian equator and would be the first discovery of a large body of water beyond the planet's polar ice caps.
Images from the High Resolution Stereo Camera on Mars Express show raft-like ground structures - dubbed "plates" - that look similar to ice formations near Earth's poles, according to an international team of scientists.

chat · 2005-02-21 11:18:31

SpaceNut,

Interesting article.

If its true it opens all sorts of possibilities to altering the mars climate.

One decent sized impact in the middle of the area would rework all of the mars atmosphere, maybe even enough to melt the poles and really get mars warming and wet.

That could be done in a few ways, alter one of the martian moons to de orbit.
Or alter a comet or asteroid trajectory to mars.

Then water and air wont be an issue.

BWhite · 2005-02-21 12:07:40

Just might be easier than we thought. ???
http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn7039] 'Pack ice' suggests frozen sea on Mars
A frozen sea, surviving as blocks of pack ice, may lie just beneath the surface of Mars, suggest observations from Europe's Mars Express spacecraft. The sea is just 5° north of the Martian equator and would be the first discovery of a large body of water beyond the planet's polar ice caps.
Images from the High Resolution Stereo Camera on Mars Express show raft-like ground structures - dubbed "plates" - that look similar to ice formations near Earth's poles, according to an international team of scientists.

Just came here bringing the same link.

If true, early settlers will have more water than they can use. Now , all we need is a local source of nitrogen.

Dook · 2005-02-21 17:41:41

Dook,
Small quantities of Water vapor do exist in the atmosphere of mars.
Since you can achieve a temperature difference of up to 240c the condenser should be extremely efficient.
I think with some plumbing that leads from inside the greenhouse to the external atmosphere, you could easily collect frost each time the pipe is heated and cooled.
We are talking a drop or two of water for each pipe cooling cycle, but 24/7 it would add up.
With a little luck you would collect more water than naturally escapes from the greenhouse.
Probably a better plan for water is to take a large container of hydrogen with you, collect the mars atmosphere and separate co2 into c and o2, use the c for plants and the o2 with the hydrogen for water, or o2 to simply breathe.
Big electricity bill for that though.

For your idea to work you would need to take in mars atmosphere and warm it so the water vapor condenses on a cold surface which could be simply an aluminun wall. The water would flow into a trap at the base of the wall. This could be built as one wall of a rectangular greenhouse.

Or you could have a thin steel bar at the center of a 6'' wide aluminum pipe. Put small holes in the 6'' pipe to allow mars atmosphere to enter. Exposed to the sun this outer pipe would get warm in the day and the martian air would move through and condense on the shaded and still cold center bar. Over the course of the day the center bar would warm and after nightfall the outer aluminum pipe would cool more quickly. Water would then condense on the inside of the pipe. No energy needed, day and night do it all.

Although technically feasable I don't think you would get much of anything out of it. Mars is just too cold, all the water is frozen solid.

Also I would prefer spherical domes with the bottom half filled with fertilized and treated regolith. That way water used on the plants can be recovered at the bottom of the dome and reused.

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#1 2005-02-16 07:00:53

Re: Getting water on mars

#2 2005-02-16 13:57:07

Re: Getting water on mars

#3 2005-02-17 14:12:26

Re: Getting water on mars

#4 2005-02-19 14:52:00

Re: Getting water on mars

#5 2005-02-19 16:14:12

Re: Getting water on mars

#6 2005-02-20 04:26:24

Re: Getting water on mars

#7 2005-02-21 10:19:15

Re: Getting water on mars

#8 2005-02-21 11:18:31

Re: Getting water on mars

#9 2005-02-21 12:07:40

Re: Getting water on mars

#10 2005-02-21 17:41:41

Re: Getting water on mars

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