mars life, - just the same methane stuff,

flashgordon · 2005-02-16 16:35:19

http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/m … 50216.html

they're just taking the possibility more seriously because of an analogy with earth's extreme bacteria.

I for one can barely care if there is bacteria on mars, but if it increases science and human colonization funding, I suppose I'd be excited.

Shaun Barrett · 2005-02-16 18:36:27

Flashgordon:-

I for one can barely care if there is bacteria on mars, but if it increases science and human colonization funding, I suppose I'd be excited.

Hi Flash!
I'm not sure whether you've been following some of the more obscure debates in other threads here about how the discovery of life on Mars could affect future missions(?). But anyhow, just to recap, proof that Martian bacteria exist could either spur exploration, or hamper it severely.
As you know, there are people out there paid to worry about forward and backward planetary contamination issues. If those issues go away, those people don't have a job. It's therefore in their interests to play up the contamination possibilities to the hilt, regardless of the damage it might do to Mars missions.
The contamination worry depends on Mars having produced microbes which are either a new branch of life, and therefore unique and vital to our understanding of what life really is, or microbes which are ravenously predatory and potentially capable of destroying life here on Earth. In the former case, we mustn't contaminate Mars; in the latter case, we mustn't allow Mars to contaminate us!
They've got a tailor-made, knee-jerk, scare-mongering reason to stifle mars trips either way, and they'll have the full mindless support of the environmentalist movement no matter how the dice may fall. All they need is hard evidence that there's something alive on Mars and the circus can begin.

Another way that Martian life can put the kibosh on human missions, at least for a very long time, is the Sample Return Mission (SRM) program. This program entails recovering samples of Martian regolith using robotic probes and examining them in special bug-containment facilities on the Moon, in Low Earth Orbit, or right here on the ground.
A reasonable blanket reconnaissance would require, I estimate, maybe a half dozen missions, each of which has been predicted to cost about $2 billion. Assuming NASA can afford only one of these ambitious missions every launch window, and assuming no failures, this SRM program is likely to take at least 12 years and cost about $12 billion. And I haven't even factored in the cost of the state-of-the-art containment facilities yet!
Optimists think the first SRM might lift off in about 2014. If so, the program should be grinding to a halt in about 2026, assuming all goes well.

There are many people who recognize all this as a monumental waste of time and money. And I'm one of them.
There is powerful logic which indicates that any Martian life has long been mixing with life here on Earth through the medium of almost constant impact transfer of crustal material between the two planets over the past 4.5 billion years. Whatever life exists on Mars, it would long ago have taken over Earth, if it were so inclined .. in fact, it may well have actually done so about 4 billion years ago! Or the reverse may have occurred.
The chances of a totally different type of life existing on Mars are vanishingly small. And the idea that any Martian life is poised to devour terrestrial life, in some kind of microbial 'War of the Worlds', is patent nonsense. If there were any chance of that happening, it would have happened long ago.

As far as human exploration and colonization of Mars is concerned, our best hope is that Mars is found to be sterile. Then at least part of the anti-space, environmentalist, contamination-jobs-for-the-boys argument will be neutralized.
Unfortunately, that is very unlikely, at least in my opinion (and the opinions of some other people much smarter than I'll ever be). The fact that there's life here means life must either have developed on Mars, and transferred here, or was transferred to Mars after developing here. Given that life is nearly impossible to eradicate totally, once it is established, that life must still exist on Mars.

When proof of Martian life is discovered - probably quite soon now, I suspect - we, as Mars Society members, should be prepared for the storm of anti-Mars propaganda and misguided environmental activism.
I think, Flash, that we should all care about whether life exists on Mars because it's likely to make an enormous difference to the dreams of so many of us here.
???

flashgordon · 2005-02-16 21:16:15

"There is powerful logic which indicates that any Martian life has long been mixing with life here on Earth through the medium of almost constant impact transfer of crustal material between the two planets over the past 4.5 billion years. Whatever life exists on Mars, it would long ago have taken over Earth, if it were so inclined .. in fact, it may well have actually done so about 4 billion years ago! Or the reverse may have occurred.
The chances of a totally different type of life existing on Mars are vanishingly small. And the idea that any Martian life is poised to devour terrestrial life, in some kind of microbial 'War of the Worlds', is patent nonsense. If there were any chance of that happening, it would have happened long ago."

Nice arguement against the E.T. folks about life being different from us!

As for the point about environmentalist and such . . . ouch ??? :hm:

Shaun Barrett · 2005-02-16 22:40:29

Oops, sorry Flash! :-

As for the point about environmentalist and such . . . ouch ??? :hm:

I assume from this comment that you're an environmental activist. If so, I'd like to make the point that I'm actually quite 'green' myself in many ways - but only when I can see the sense in whatever the activists are .. well, 'active' about!

I believe there are various issues which environmentalists would do well to examine in detail before making those knee-jerk responses I mentioned. For example, I think nuclear power production should be revisited objectively; without all the wild-eyed and emotionally charged reactions we've come to expect. This is especially true today, in view of all the fuss over rising CO2 levels and global warming, when it's not obvious that alternative clean-energy sources will be able to provide a viable substitute in the near future. But I'm not here to argue that point per se.

As for Mars, I strongly suspect there are people with alternative agendas out there who would be more than happy to use Martian microbes as an excuse to curtail human space exploration. Some of those people are just plain Luddites, of course, but others probably include space scientists whose careers depend on a well-funded robotic space program or on space-based telescopes etc.
I was just trying to bring this personal concern of mine to your attention but I guess my frustration with the wilder elements of the environmental movement came through too strongly! :;):

My apologies if I inadvertently insulted you.
I certainly didn't set out to do that.

flashgordon · 2005-02-16 23:54:07

oops, should have expressed myself more explicitly(not sexually!).

Well, I'm not going to say I'm 'not' an environmentalist, but I'm certainly not an anti-tech or space colonization environmentalist.

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#1 2005-02-16 16:35:19

Re: mars life, - just the same methane stuff,

#2 2005-02-16 18:36:27

Re: mars life, - just the same methane stuff,

#3 2005-02-16 21:16:15

Re: mars life, - just the same methane stuff,

#4 2005-02-16 22:40:29

Re: mars life, - just the same methane stuff,

#5 2005-02-16 23:54:07

Re: mars life, - just the same methane stuff,

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