Cassini-Huygens III - Continued from previous

djellison · 2005-01-29 05:41:44

:bars:
If only that camera could have been mounted on a swivel or something! (Cost restraints forbade it, of course.)

Not really cost constraints. Huygens was an atmospheric probe with an initial surface design life of 3 minutes

Doug

Shaun Barrett · 2005-01-29 07:37:47

Yeah, well.
It's frustrating anyhow.

Palomar · 2005-01-31 16:59:54

http://saturn.jpl.nasa.gov/multimedia/i … 5]*Prepare to be dazzled

Adjectives fail...

[Note also that a few of Mimas' large craters are visible (barely)]

-*-

http://saturn.jpl.nasa.gov/multimedia/i … D=1334]The Giant's Shadow

Lovely Saturn, the Pride of the Solar System.

--Cindy

Shaun Barrett · 2005-02-01 02:40:22

Cindy:-

Adjectives fail...

No argument!
:up:

Palomar · 2005-02-01 11:44:47

Cindy:-
Quote
Adjectives fail...
No argument! :up:

*That photo would be stunning even without Mimas. But the fact that Mimas is there really sets it off. All those gorgeous sweeping lines with their interplay of light and shadow so remarkably off-set by that solid dot.

I wish I could ride along with Cassini. Zipping above Saturn, then beneath...between the Rings...between the globe and the Rings...flying to the night-side of Saturn...riding along as we zoom past Titan and the other Moons. ::sigh:: Yeah, I can daydream. What an utterly mind-blowing experience it would be; I'd be *beyond* mega-blissed-out the entire time.

Am grateful, though (of course!), for the views Cassini does give us. (Yes, I am envious of a machine!)

-*-

http://saturn.jpl.nasa.gov/multimedia/i … 336]Impact Central

Rhea. Scientists especially taken with the orientation and distribution of its "many craters with polygonal rims."

These are craters with rough, angular shapes, rather than smooth, circular ones.

Photo dated January 16th.

--Cindy

Shaun Barrett · 2005-02-02 00:51:46

Rhea. Scientists especially taken with the orientation and distribution of its "many craters with polygonal rims."

Gosh!
This is news to me. I thought craters were required to be round, or at least rounded, not polygonal. ???

Palomar · 2005-02-03 16:18:56

Rhea. Scientists especially taken with the orientation and distribution of its "many craters with polygonal rims."
Gosh!
This is news to me. I thought craters were required to be round, or at least rounded, not polygonal. ???

*Yep. And here's another mystery, via Keck observations but of course Cassini will be involved (Cassini's infrared spectrometer)...regardless, it's new news about Saturn and goes here.

http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewpr.html?pid=16057]Hot spot at Saturn's south pole

That feature always did capture my attention, when Cassini was buzzing Saturn's southern hemisphere. Of course I'm NOT trying to insinuate I anticipated anything like this... ...because of course I didn't.

I'm almost ready to sign off the computer, so will resort to mostly copying and pasting:

In the most precise reading of Saturn's temperatures ever taken from Earth, a new set of infrared images suggests a warm "polar vortex" at Saturn's south pole - the first warm polar cap ever to be discovered in the solar system. The vortex is punctuated by a compact spot that is the warmest place on the planet.

The puzzle isn't that Saturn's south pole is warm; after all, it has been exposed to 15 years of continuous sunlight, having just reached its summer Solstice late in 2002. But both the distinct boundary of a warm polar vortex some 30 degrees latitude from the southern pole and a very hot "tip" right at the pole were completely unexpected. If the increased southern temperatures are the result of the seasonal variations of sunlight, then temperatures should increase gradually with increasing latitude. But they don't –

They're speculating about the downwelling of dry air, which apparently is consistent with deeper clouds observed in the area. Cassini will be directed to check this out; they're making changes -- "redirections" -- for future observations of it.

And attention will be turned especially now to Saturn's north pole:

"One of the obvious questions is whether Saturn's north pole is abnormally cold and whether a cold polar vortex has been established there. That's something we can't see from Earth, and Cassini's instruments will be in a unique position to observe it," said Orton.

--Cindy

::EDIT:: New images:

http://saturn.jpl.nasa.gov/multimedia/i … 1337]Going with the flow

http://saturn.jpl.nasa.gov/multimedia/i … 1338]Janus and Rings

Shaun Barrett · 2005-02-03 17:25:15

Richard Hoagland has something he calls a Hyperdimensional Theory, which relates to energy appearing in our 4-space (space-time continuum) from higher dimensions. In particular, this theory depends on the kind of evidence we've discussed before at other threads - i.e. the peculiar energy upwelling that seems to appear at 19.5 degrees latitude on the planets of our solar system, such as Mauna Loa/Kea on Earth, Olympus Mons on Mars, and The Great Red Spot on Jupiter, among others. [Actually, that part of the evidence does intrigue me.]

I think Mr. Hoagland will be having a field day with this new information from Saturn! :;):

SpaceNut · 2005-02-04 12:10:28

I am sure that this could also go under the keck observatory telescope but it is of saturn.

Astronomers Find 'Hot Spot' on Saturn

capt.ny11302040632.saturn_hot_spot_ny113.jpg

The infrared images captured by the Keck I telescope at the W.M. Keck Observatory atop Mauna Kea on the Big Island suggest a warm polar vortex — a large-scale weather pattern likened to a jet stream on Earth that occurs in the upper atmosphere. It's the first such hot vortex ever discovered in the solar system.

Palomar · 2005-02-04 13:15:46

*Yep; that was posted yesterday. It also concerns Cassini. Cassini is mentioned in the article, i.e. they're going to re-direct Cassini to check this out in the future and also Saturn's north pole.

So it does belong in this thread.

--Cindy

P.S.: I'd presume most any telescopic discovery or detection of something new/unusual pertaining to Saturn will involve Cassini; it's already buzzing around the Glorious Ringed One and so has the prime opportunity to check things out "on the scene." There has been mention made in previous articles that telescopes will be assisting Cassini. So it's a splendid joint effort for sure! :up:

remcook · 2005-02-05 09:16:51

Actually, this hot spot is already observed with CIRS

Palomar · 2005-02-08 09:07:49

*Hi remcook: Okay, thanks!

http://saturn.jpl.nasa.gov/multimedia/i … 342]Mixing Saturn: Undulations and Swirls

Especially interesting about that chevron patterning...

-*-

Saturns]http://saturn.jpl.nasa.gov/multimedia/images/image-details.cfm?imageID=1341]Saturn's Snowball

...in the dark.

Cassini has now matched the best spatial resolution on Enceladus achieved by NASA's Voyager spacecraft, and will soon have excellent coverage of the moon (at more than 10 times the resolution in this image), following a flyby planned for February 17.

--Cindy

Palomar · 2005-02-08 13:59:38

*Next Cassini encounter with Titan coming up:

Titan -3 Mission Description - Feb. 8, 2005
The third targeted flyby of Titan occurs on Tuesday, February 15, 2005 at 6:58 SCET (Ground: 8:06 UTC -- 12:06 AM Pacific time). Cassini's closest approach to Saturn's largest satellite is at an altitude of 1577 km (980 miles) above the surface at a speed of 6.1 kilometers per second (14,000 mph). Titan has a diameter of 5150 km (3200 miles), so the spacecraft passes within 1.6 Titan radii.

There's a .pdf file and additional presentations selection too.

http://saturn.jpl.nasa.gov/home/index.cfm]JPL/NASA C-H Homepage

It's on the front page currently, of course; later will move to "Latest from Saturn" tab when new images roll in (most folks here know this -- but thought I'd mention it for potential newcomers).

--Cindy

DannyITR · 2005-02-08 22:07:53

I'm a little disapointed with Huygens. I guess I was waiting for an Earth shattering discovery and so far I just saw a few photos. Don't get me wrong the photos are unbelievable but I thought there would be more discoveries for some reason.

Palomar · 2005-02-09 06:35:46

http://saturn.jpl.nasa.gov/multimedia/i … 1349]Mimas Blues

*That pic originally released in non-color. I posted it a week or so ago, upon its release. Stunning either way.

-*-

Saturns]http://saturn.jpl.nasa.gov/multimedia/images/image-details.cfm?imageID=1350]Saturn's Blue Cranium

Wow, the effects of the ring shadows; can't quite "get over" them, despite the handful of similar pics we've seen. Is a true-color photo. Lovely, lovely...

Why the upper atmosphere in the northern hemisphere is so cloud-free is not known, but may be related to colder temperatures brought on by the ring shadows cast there.

[::edit:: But there are "spots of bright clouds" there]

-*-

Danny: I guess ESA handles press releases and announcements a lot differently than I'm accustomed to with NASA. They're busy poring over the data, and yes -- I wish too they'd share a few more details with us. Soon.

--Cindy

Yang Liwei Rocket · 2005-02-09 11:21:39

By the way, ESA has announced a major news release on January 21. :up:
I'm hoping I can catch that one live, should be off that morning The website does not go into too much detail about the news release, but the panel is made up from a lot of atmospheric specialists and only one(?) surface guy. Perhaps they've got something from the descent phase thats worthy of a news release on its own, before they get down to the surface data - or they only need the one guy to say "it's life Jim but not as we know it" :;):
:blues: :band:
Graeme

Radio Telescopes Salvage Titan Wind

U.S. and European researchers are lauding the effectiveness of a network of ground-based telescopes that has apparently salvaged a wind experiment feared lost

By combining Doppler shift data from the Green Bank Telescope and other radio instruments, astronomers now know that while Titan’s winds are relatively weak at the moon’s surface, they reach nearly 270 miles (434 kilometer) an hour at an altitude of about 75 miles (120 kilometers). At an altitude of about 37 miles (59 kilometers), Huygens found highly variable winds that may be a region of vertical wind shear, mission scientists said.
“I’ve never felt such exhilarating highs and dispiriting lows than those experienced when we first detected the signal from the GBT, indicating ‘all’s well’ and then discovering that we had no signal at the operations center, indicating ‘all’s lost,’” said Doppler wind experiment principal investigator Michael Bird, of Germany’s University of Bonn, in a written statement. “The truth, as we have now determined, lies somewhat closer to the former than the latter.”

Ground-based observations of the Huygens probe’s descent gave astronomers a glimpse at the north-south attributes of Titan’s winds, but it was the Cassini spacecraft that was expected to return data on the moon’s east-west wind patterns. While that data is lost, Huygens researchers say the ground data was able to track the spacecraft’s Titan descent to within three-quarters of a mile (one kilometer) and ultimately yield a three-dimensional picture of the probe’s landing.

“It’s sort of an awakening of sorts,” Brisken said. “Now that we have the technology to do this so easily, it might be a more normal thing in the future.”

http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/h … 50209.html

Technical coup rescues Titan wind experiment
NewScientist.com news service
Stephen Battersby

In a remarkable technical coup, astronomers working from Earth have measured the winds of Saturn's moon, Titan.
They listened in to a faint radio signal emitted by the European Space Agency's Huygens probe as it descended through Titan's atmosphere on 14 January. Analysing tiny shifts in the signal's frequency betrayed the probe's motion.

Palomar · 2005-02-09 12:15:25

Radio Telescopes Salvage Titan Wind

*Yay! That's excellent news! :band:

I thought this paragraph from a spaceref.com article was particularly good and certainly complements some info in YLR's post:

Winds on Titan are found to be flowing in the direction of Titan's rotation (from west to east) at nearly all altitudes. The maximum speed of roughly 120 metres per second (430 km/h) was measured about ten minutes after the start of the descent, at an altitude of about 120 km. The winds are weak near the surface and increase slowly with altitude up to about 60 km. This pattern does not continue at altitudes above 60 km, where large variations in the Doppler measurements are observed. Scientists believe that these variations may arise from significant vertical wind shear. That Huygens had a rough ride in this region was already known from the science and engineering data recorded on board Huygens.
"Major mission events, such as the parachute exchange about 15 minutes into the atmospheric flight and impact on Titan at 13:45 CET, produced Doppler signatures that we can clearly identify in the data," Bird said.
"This is a stupendous example of the effectiveness of truly global scientific co-operation," said Jean-Pierre Lebreton, ESA Huygens Project Scientist. "By combining the Doppler and VLBI data we will eventually obtain an extremely accurate three-dimensional record of the motion of Huygens during its mission at Titan," he concluded.

--Cindy

REB · 2005-02-09 12:46:07

http://saturn.jpl.nasa.gov/multimedia/i … 349]Saturn a blue planet?

http://saturn.jpl.nasa.gov/multimedia/i … D=1350]and here.

If you were in Saturns upper atmosphere, say in a balloon or aircraft/space craft, you would see a blue sky during the day and red or orange sunset and sunrises.

Titan's atmosphere is also blue, above the orange clouds.

remcook · 2005-02-09 13:00:24

I'm a little disapointed with Huygens. I guess I was waiting for an Earth shattering discovery and so far I just saw a few photos. Don't get me wrong the photos are unbelievable but I thought there would be more discoveries for some reason.

unfortunately, the data from most instruments take quite some time to analyse. Pictures, however, can be delivered to the public almost instantly.

That said, I don't think there will be coming any worldviewshattering discoveries from Huygens. But very interesting ones, I'm sure.

Shaun Barrett · 2005-02-10 06:54:30

Wait a minute!
Now Saturn's blue?! ???

For years they've been telling us it's pastel pinky-yellowy- orangey-beige. Now it's blue!

Palomar · 2005-02-10 07:05:13

Wait a minute!
Now Saturn's blue?! ???
For years they've been telling us it's pastel pinky-yellowy- orangey-beige. Now it's blue!

*The blueness comes from the shadow effects of the rings:

This results in sunlight being scattered at shorter (bluer) wavelengths, thus giving the northernmost latitudes their bluish appearance at visible wavelengths.

Otherwise, Saturn is orangish-peachy. I believe that is its natural color.

Orangish-peachy. (I feel like saying that a couple of times. :hm: LOL...)

--Cindy

REB · 2005-02-10 10:20:30

I don't think it is the rings. Nasa says this for that first picture.

"Saturn's northern hemisphere is presently relatively cloud-free, and rays of sunlight take a long path through the atmosphere. This results in sunlight being scattered at shorter (bluer) wavelengths, thus giving the northernmost latitudes their bluish appearance at visible wavelengths. "

-----
If you were in Saturns upper atmosphere, you would see a blue sky. Of course, the same is true of Jupiter and it is not blue...hmmmmmmm :hm:

Maybe it is the angle at which those pictures were taken? Or maybe it is the fact that the "Saturn's northern hemisphere is presently relatively cloud-free"

The Earth looks blue from space because of the oceans. And the oceans are blue because they reflect the blue rays from the atmosphere. Even though the sky as viewed from land, from space, the land does not appear blue. This is because the land does not reflect the blue light rays the way water does.

So back to the Saturn mystery. Saturn’s atmosphere (Upper side anyway) is always scattering blue light. For us to see it from space, it would have to be reflecting off something down below. Maybe Saturn really is blue in the places where the atmosphere is clear deep down?

Neptune and Uranus’ atmospheres also scatter blue light, and if you were floating in them, above the clouds, the sky would be blue. However, I think they look blue from space because some element making up the clouds is reflecting blue light.

Palomar · 2005-02-10 10:33:52

*Okay, let's back up. Sometimes it seems the rings are indicated as part of the reason for the blueness (shadowing effect). But yes, REB is right:

Re-read the caption from the photo dubbed "Saturn's Blue Cranium":

Saturn's northern hemisphere is presently a serene blue...as seen in this natural color image from Cassini.
Light rays here travel a much longer path through the relatively cloud-free upper atmosphere. Along this path, shorter wavelength blue light rays are scattered effectively by gases in the atmosphere, and it is this scattered light that gives the region its blue appearance.
Shadows cast by the rings surround the pole, looking almost like dark atmospheric bands. The ring shadows at higher latitudes correspond to locations on the ringplane that are farther from the planet --

Saturn's tilt factors in on this, i.e. the way light is spread over the northern hemisphere currently (note the caption says "is presently" -- conditional, i.e. changeable). However, Saturn is not entirely blue; we've seen many color photos from both Voyager, Cassini and telescopes and at least half the color is that beige-yellowish-peach color.

So I feel it's incorrect to say "Saturn is a blue planet"...it's only partly blue apparently. And all the more lovely for it.

--Cindy

::EDIT:: New moon images rolling in:

http://saturn.jpl.nasa.gov/multimedia/i … D=1352]The "Death Star" dead-on

The image has been "rotated," however. Yeah, I'd say the impact probably nearly destroyed Mimas. :-\ Considering the size of that impact crater as compared to Mimas itself. That's another mystery to ponder I guess; how Mimas remained intact despite it.

http://saturn.jpl.nasa.gov/multimedia/i … 3]Wrinkles of Youth?

Enceladus. I've seen icy surfaces which resemble that. I wouldn't call it "wrinkled"...not sure what to call it.

REB · 2005-02-10 12:33:46

Enceladus is very round for a world only 310 miles across. It must have a high water content that has been heated to be so spherical.

Is Mimas about the same size as the fictional Death Star was supposed to be?

LtlPhysics · 2005-02-10 22:16:39

Does this mean that every planet with an appreciable atmosphere always scatters radiation that is at least as energetic as blue light?

New Mars Forums

Announcement

#101 2005-01-29 05:41:44

Re: Cassini-Huygens III - Continued from previous

#102 2005-01-29 07:37:47

Re: Cassini-Huygens III - Continued from previous

#103 2005-01-31 16:59:54

Re: Cassini-Huygens III - Continued from previous

#104 2005-02-01 02:40:22

Re: Cassini-Huygens III - Continued from previous

#105 2005-02-01 11:44:47

Re: Cassini-Huygens III - Continued from previous

#106 2005-02-02 00:51:46

Re: Cassini-Huygens III - Continued from previous

#107 2005-02-03 16:18:56

Re: Cassini-Huygens III - Continued from previous

#108 2005-02-03 17:25:15

Re: Cassini-Huygens III - Continued from previous

#109 2005-02-04 12:10:28

Re: Cassini-Huygens III - Continued from previous

#110 2005-02-04 13:15:46

Re: Cassini-Huygens III - Continued from previous

#111 2005-02-05 09:16:51

Re: Cassini-Huygens III - Continued from previous

#112 2005-02-08 09:07:49

Re: Cassini-Huygens III - Continued from previous

#113 2005-02-08 13:59:38

Re: Cassini-Huygens III - Continued from previous

#114 2005-02-08 22:07:53

Re: Cassini-Huygens III - Continued from previous

#115 2005-02-09 06:35:46

Re: Cassini-Huygens III - Continued from previous

#116 2005-02-09 11:21:39

Re: Cassini-Huygens III - Continued from previous

#117 2005-02-09 12:15:25

Re: Cassini-Huygens III - Continued from previous

#118 2005-02-09 12:46:07

Re: Cassini-Huygens III - Continued from previous

#119 2005-02-09 13:00:24

Re: Cassini-Huygens III - Continued from previous

#120 2005-02-10 06:54:30

Re: Cassini-Huygens III - Continued from previous

#121 2005-02-10 07:05:13

Re: Cassini-Huygens III - Continued from previous

#122 2005-02-10 10:20:30

Re: Cassini-Huygens III - Continued from previous

#123 2005-02-10 10:33:52

Re: Cassini-Huygens III - Continued from previous

#124 2005-02-10 12:33:46

Re: Cassini-Huygens III - Continued from previous

#125 2005-02-10 22:16:39

Re: Cassini-Huygens III - Continued from previous

Board footer